By adding the magnifier, you will loss a stop of light, your shutter speed will be 1/2 what it would be
without the magnifier, but you will also get the extra reach from it.
A 200mm lens will give you the look of a 280mm
When adding a teleconverter ...
Lose light (includes dimmer vf image)
AF almost certainly affected
Image quality degraded to some degree
Need higher shutter speed (than before) because of increased focal length
In *most* cases I agree that the crop body is better for sports. Where this tends to fall down is when shooting at night or shooting indoors with limited lighting. This is why the flagship sports cameras from Nikon went full frame many years ago, and the current Canon flagship (The 1Dx) is now full frame.
The choice between the 1DMk2 and the 7D is a tricky one. The 7D is a lot more modern, better screen, better in lower light, and with some other nice new features. And you can get them new/ The 1Dmk2 was BUILT as a sports camera. It will have features that pro sports shooters wanted and needed to get images on the covers of magazines a few years ago. But it will have a smaller screen, it won't be as good in lower light, etc. It's a compromise either way.
You've already gotten a good answer on the 1.4x teleconvertor compromises.
I think what Ill do is go to the camera store and try some of my options. 70-300 and 70-200. Take some test shots then see what I like. Maybe order it new or a nice used one and a 7d is an option in a little while. Maybe spring. I was talking to one of my dads friends that works at a camera shop and he said a cropped body like the 7d is better for sports then a full frame body? What do you guys think? And also the 1.4 adaptor, will that only effect the aperture? from going f2.8 to f4 or something like that? It wont affect anything else?
In *most* cases I agree that the crop body is better for sports. Where this tends to fall down is when shooting at night or shooting indoors with limited lighting. This is why the flagship sports cameras from Nikon went full frame many years ago, and the current Canon flagship (The 1Dx) is now full frame.
The choice between the 1DMk2 and the 7D is a tricky one. The 7D is a lot more modern, better screen, better in lower light, and with some other nice new features. And you can get them new/ The 1Dmk2 was BUILT as a sports camera. It will have features that pro sports shooters wanted and needed to get images on the covers of magazines a few years ago. But it will have a smaller screen, it won't be as good in lower light, etc. It's a compromise either way.
You've already gotten a good answer on the 1.4x teleconvertor compromises.
All true.
I will add that the Canon 1D series "are" crop camera bodies. Specifically they are crop 1.3x/APS-H, versus crop 1.6x/APS-C for the 7D. (So the 1D series are more similar to a FF body with a 1.4x teleconverter, in terms of FOV for a given lens.)
The viewfinder of the 1D series is brighter than the viewfinder of the 7D, by virtue of the larger mirror.
The used "EX" 1D MKII is about half the cost of a new 7D. From KEH it comes with a 6 month warranty, versus a 1 year warranty for a new 7D.
Both of my 1D MKII bodies were purchased used from DGrinners, and they are both going strong. (... and I did not get any warranty with those purchases.)
The 1D MKII/MKIIN will autofocus with lenses up to f8. (i.e. an f4 lens with a 2x teleconverter "will" be able to autofocus, with a few exceptions.)
A 7D, with an f4 lens with a 2x teleconverter, "will not" autofocus.
You can get the Sports Illustrated setup file for a Canon 1D MKII or 1D MKIIN (so that you can start with the camera setup that they recommend):
You can also save your own camera setup files, when you find settings that work for specific occasions (Very handy.)
The 1D MKII/MKIIN will make and save audio "notes" with the same file name as the image file you just shot.
On the other hand, the 7D has a rather nice video capability.
The 7D is an excellent "all-rounder" body, doing lots of types of photography really well.
Canon just issued a comprehensive firmware update for the 7D making it that much more modern in effect, and the firmware update is free.
If you can swing the cost of the 7D without sacrificing on the lens, the 7D makes a very nice sports body, as well as a social event body.
PS. As a side note, I think there needs to be a gear information section called ziggypedia...
^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^
Ziggy's knowledge is nothing short of amazing. And he's generous with it. And writes complicated technical info in such a way that anybody can understand it. I credit a large percentage of any understanding and knowledge of gear I may have to his posts (to me and to others, since I read it all for education purposes!!)
I'm late to this party and haven't read any responses, but for outdoor day to early evening sports the best value is the 70-200 f/4L. IS is not needed for sports. You should be able to get some winners with your T3i with practice. I shot sports with a Pentax K1000. A 7D with a short lens is not going to satisfy you.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Thanks a lot guys! Have any of you bought used lenses? Is there anything I should watch for while buying one? Or should I try and find a bargain on a new lens?
You can can certainly save some money with used lenses, though they tend not to depreciate nearly as fast as bodies. If you buy from KEH or from an eBay merchant with very high ratings (>99.6%) and a lot of volume you should do OK.
I agree with others here than better glass will give you your best bang for your (or your parent's) buck. A 70-200 f/2.8 without IS is perfect for most of your work. You'll be amazed at the improvement!
A professional sports-oriented body will give you an edge, but in the long run you'll probably do better to hone your single shot skills. Hell, I would wager than 20% of my shots that get picked up by the media come off my 5D2, which is a piss-poor sports body (but has spectacular images when you do nail the shot).
Check out the football shots from last weekends and this weekends games. First game I shot with a 18-135, and second game (orange team) I shot with a 70-300. Tell me what you think!! Also should I buy smugmug, this is just a trial, also should I try and sell? Thanks Guys.
Check out the football shots from last weekends and this weekends games. First game I shot with a 18-135, and second game (orange team) I shot with a 70-300. Tell me what you think!! Also should I buy smugmug, this is just a trial, also should I try and sell? Thanks Guys.
Well, it's a good first effort. But I am going to tell you the same thing I tell most new sports shooters. GET IN THERE. Shoot tight, and crop tighter. In nearly any instance in a sport like football, the eyes tell the story. If you don't have eyes, don't bother posting it. That is a generalization, but a pretty good one.
For a crop guideline, get the ball, the player or players DIRECTLY involved in the play, and nothing else. No green-space, no houses in the background, no parents on the sideline, etc. If you do it right, we should be able to tell the eye color of the key player(s) in the photograph.
Once you get there, you might have something to sell.
I might add one point to Perroneford's fine advice: be careful how you crop human anatomy. Either get the whole body in the shot--but still tight, without a lot of dead space around the subject--or get a half-body shot where the lower crop is around the waist. Cutting off feet, hands and arms, or certainly heads, is not cool.
...and if at all possible choose a uniform and dark background without a lot of clutter, especially if you are shooting with a smaller aperture. Nothing detracts from a shot more than porta-potties and lawnchairs behind your subject.
Comments
When adding a teleconverter ...
Lose light (includes dimmer vf image)
AF almost certainly affected
Image quality degraded to some degree
Need higher shutter speed (than before) because of increased focal length
all for extra reach
pp
Flickr
The choice between the 1DMk2 and the 7D is a tricky one. The 7D is a lot more modern, better screen, better in lower light, and with some other nice new features. And you can get them new/ The 1Dmk2 was BUILT as a sports camera. It will have features that pro sports shooters wanted and needed to get images on the covers of magazines a few years ago. But it will have a smaller screen, it won't be as good in lower light, etc. It's a compromise either way.
You've already gotten a good answer on the 1.4x teleconvertor compromises.
perroneford@ptfphoto.com
All true.
I will add that the Canon 1D series "are" crop camera bodies. Specifically they are crop 1.3x/APS-H, versus crop 1.6x/APS-C for the 7D. (So the 1D series are more similar to a FF body with a 1.4x teleconverter, in terms of FOV for a given lens.)
The viewfinder of the 1D series is brighter than the viewfinder of the 7D, by virtue of the larger mirror.
The used "EX" 1D MKII is about half the cost of a new 7D. From KEH it comes with a 6 month warranty, versus a 1 year warranty for a new 7D.
Both of my 1D MKII bodies were purchased used from DGrinners, and they are both going strong. (... and I did not get any warranty with those purchases.)
The 1D MKII/MKIIN will autofocus with lenses up to f8. (i.e. an f4 lens with a 2x teleconverter "will" be able to autofocus, with a few exceptions.)
A 7D, with an f4 lens with a 2x teleconverter, "will not" autofocus.
You can get the Sports Illustrated setup file for a Canon 1D MKII or 1D MKIIN (so that you can start with the camera setup that they recommend):
http://www.siphoto.com/?canon1DM2.inc
http://www.siphoto.com/?canon1DM2N.inc
You can also save your own camera setup files, when you find settings that work for specific occasions (Very handy.)
The 1D MKII/MKIIN will make and save audio "notes" with the same file name as the image file you just shot.
On the other hand, the 7D has a rather nice video capability.
The 7D is an excellent "all-rounder" body, doing lots of types of photography really well.
Canon just issued a comprehensive firmware update for the 7D making it that much more modern in effect, and the firmware update is free.
If you can swing the cost of the 7D without sacrificing on the lens, the 7D makes a very nice sports body, as well as a social event body.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^
Ziggy's knowledge is nothing short of amazing. And he's generous with it. And writes complicated technical info in such a way that anybody can understand it. I credit a large percentage of any understanding and knowledge of gear I may have to his posts (to me and to others, since I read it all for education purposes!!)
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
You can can certainly save some money with used lenses, though they tend not to depreciate nearly as fast as bodies. If you buy from KEH or from an eBay merchant with very high ratings (>99.6%) and a lot of volume you should do OK.
I agree with others here than better glass will give you your best bang for your (or your parent's) buck. A 70-200 f/2.8 without IS is perfect for most of your work. You'll be amazed at the improvement!
A professional sports-oriented body will give you an edge, but in the long run you'll probably do better to hone your single shot skills. Hell, I would wager than 20% of my shots that get picked up by the media come off my 5D2, which is a piss-poor sports body (but has spectacular images when you do nail the shot).
Link: http://isaacpatry.smugmug.com/Sports/Football/25274855_L3tbM4#!i=2076127122&k=xK8QNL9
Well, it's a good first effort. But I am going to tell you the same thing I tell most new sports shooters. GET IN THERE. Shoot tight, and crop tighter. In nearly any instance in a sport like football, the eyes tell the story. If you don't have eyes, don't bother posting it. That is a generalization, but a pretty good one.
For a crop guideline, get the ball, the player or players DIRECTLY involved in the play, and nothing else. No green-space, no houses in the background, no parents on the sideline, etc. If you do it right, we should be able to tell the eye color of the key player(s) in the photograph.
Once you get there, you might have something to sell.
perroneford@ptfphoto.com
...and if at all possible choose a uniform and dark background without a lot of clutter, especially if you are shooting with a smaller aperture. Nothing detracts from a shot more than porta-potties and lawnchairs behind your subject.