Question on future Google searches if I leave Smug Mug

jachang

I, too, am sadly considering other alternatives to Smug Mug. After being a member for several years, I FINALLY have my images found on Google searches. That raises a question in my mind:

If I were to close my SM account, and move to a competitor such as Zenfolio, what happens to searches? I realize I can keep my own domain name, but if people Google an image, I'm assuming that now if they click on an image of mine, they'll get a "Page Not Found" message. Or will they simply no longer show up at all until they're re-found at the new site? I think the images stay in Google for quite a while, because some of the ones I have taken down still appear, but clicking them gives an error.

I have not made ANY sales through Smug Mug. All of my sales have been from people asking me for the images, and then I ordered them through SM myself. Therefore, I suppose I could downgrade to a Pro account, but just on principle, I hate to do that. This whole thing has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Now I feel like SM has us over a barrel. If I stay, I pay. If I leave, all my images found by Google won't be found any more.

Has anyone considered this outcome from leaving, and found a way around it? I'm really sad and angry that I put so much time and effort into my site if I'm going to lose all of the fruits of my labor.

caroline

Jean, this is something I would also like to know as I've been giving it much thought too.

Just found this from Google:-
"""If you rewrite your URLs now that your images are indexed, we will have to recrawl and reindex all those that had their URLs changed which might lead us to drop some of them.""""

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/1000-words-about-images.html

I'm quoting from an answer to one of the questions posed.

Caroline

tomnovy

Hi Jachang and Caroline,

Thank you for your posts.

If you move to a different provider - like Zenfolio. Your links will change. Because of that you will receive Page Not Found screen. As Caroline mentioned it - Google and other search engines will need to reindex your site and drop the old links/images.

Here are some tips from Google:
http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=83105

Please also be aware that all the photos that you have published on external sites/blogs/forums will disappear , because the sharing links will change as well.

I hope this helps! Please let us know if you have any more questions.

Take care,

Tom
SmugMug Support Hero

jachang

Upset, but not surprised...

tomnovy wrote: »

Hi Jachang and Caroline,

Thank you for your posts.

If you move to a different provider - like Zenfolio. Your links will change. Because of that you will receive Page Not Found screen. As Caroline mentioned it - Google and other search engines will need to reindex your site and drop the old links/images.

Here are some tips from Google:
http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=83105

Please also be aware that all the photos that you have published on external sites/blogs/forums will disappear , because the sharing links will change as well.

I hope this helps! Please let us know if you have any more questions.

Take care,

Tom
SmugMug Support Hero

Well, that's exactly what I was afraid of. This is very unsettling for sure. It makes me even more upset with SmugMug. I know SmugMug can't control the search engines, but it's SmugMug who put us all into this position to either stay & pay or have to start from scratch elsewhere as far as being found.

The other really worrisome thing is that EVEN IF I was forced to stay with SM in order to avoid all the search engine problems, not only has my relationship with SM been tarnished, but so has my confidence. I can't help but wonder at the viability of Smug Mug for the future. We may end up having no choice but to move elsewhere if SM collapses.

I get the impression from their responses (or lack of them, really) that SM would just as soon have the low volume sellers leave, anyway. Their refusal to consider offering other options for those of us who don't have a huge storage with them makes that pretty clear. That, coupled with the "Smug" responses from the "real" pros whose advice is, "Take it or leave it," really hurts. It's the kind of sick feeling you get when someone who you thought was a friend suddenly turns on you.

I'm really hoping that this can all be worked out somehow, but I keep picturing myself, suitcase in hand, backing out the door of SmugMug, asking, "What went wrong? I thought we were family."

Ferguson

jachang wrote: »

Well, that's exactly what I was afraid of. This is very unsettling for sure. It makes me even more upset with SmugMug. I know SmugMug can't control the search engines, but it's SmugMug who put us all into this position to either stay & pay or have to start from scratch elsewhere as far as being found.

The other really worrisome thing is that EVEN IF I was forced to stay with SM in order to avoid all the search engine problems, not only has my relationship with SM been tarnished, but so has my confidence. I can't help but wonder at the viability of Smug Mug for the future. We may end up having no choice but to move elsewhere if SM collapses.

I'm sorry, but how is this a SM issue?

ANY web site you have, unless you precisely controlled all paths, will have this issue if you change providers.

Exactly how could SM have treated you better in this regard, other than never giving you reason to move? What would they have done to make this a non-issue if you decide to move to another provider?

JC

jachang wrote: »

Well, that's exactly what I was afraid of. This is very unsettling for sure. It makes me even more upset with SmugMug. I know SmugMug can't control the search engines, but it's SmugMug who put us all into this position to either stay & pay or have to start from scratch elsewhere as far as being found.

The other really worrisome thing is that EVEN IF I was forced to stay with SM in order to avoid all the search engine problems, not only has my relationship with SM been tarnished, but so has my confidence. I can't help but wonder at the viability of Smug Mug for the future. We may end up having no choice but to move elsewhere if SM collapses.
"

If you want security and links whose permanence in in your control beyond a yearly contract, administer your own domain name and pay a server for your storage requirements, or run your own server and pay your internet provider for the required bandwidth.

Smugmug and other hosting sites provide a convenient service, year by year as per your contract. Any service provider could potentially change the terms on you at the end of your service contract, this is not unique to Smugmug, and the broken links if you change hosting companies is definitely not unique to Smugmug.

jachang

No, no, of course I understand--as I said, SmugMug cannot control the search engines, and yes, I would be in the same boat no matter which hosting site I used. I'm not blaming SM for the fact that my links would be broken.

The things I am upset about are:
1. The implication by SM and "pro" users that we smaller players shouldn't be here anyway.
2. The drastic price jump with no alternative for smaller fees for smaller storage users.
3. That I'm going to have a boatload of work fixing all the links if I move. (Again, not something SM can control, I know.)

HOWEVER, if SM had not made this huge increase, I would not be in a position where I have to worry about changing links.

Not trying to argue, just saying how I feel--disappointed and feeling like I have a lose-lose situation, where I have a dilemma. Neither choice (stay or go) is appealing.

jachang

Ferguson wrote: »

I'm sorry, but how is this a SM issue?

Exactly how could SM have treated you better in this regard, other than never giving you reason to move? What would they have done to make this a non-issue if you decide to move to another provider?

That's the answer right there--not giving people a reason to move. I wouldn't move to another provider if I had other options within SmugMug. Numerous suggestions have been made throughout the blog and the forum for pricing structures that would allow us to continue our current pro accounts with, for example, limited storage. That has not been offered.

So, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Right now I'm in between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

Dan7312

For posting you could use tiny.cc for short links. tiny.cc lets you change what the short links are pointing at after the fact. Of course tiny.cc could go under.

You could use your own web server to implement your own short link server so you could change what the links point to after the fact too. You would still need a web site but you wouldn't need image storage, that could remain on smug or z or whatever. Just a minimum web site would be enough.

I'm not sure smug would want to, but they could provide a url redirection service too, for a fee of course. But it wouldn't have be that costly. It certainly would be a nice thing to do for those who feel the increase was just too sudden. In terms of good will it would certainly reinforce putting the customer first, even if they are leaving.

Just some thoughts,

kolibri wrote: »

If you want security and links whose permanence in in your control beyond a yearly contract, administer your own domain name and pay a server for your storage requirements, or run your own server and pay your internet provider for the required bandwidth.

Smugmug and other hosting sites provide a convenient service, year by year as per your contract. Any service provider could potentially change the terms on you at the end of your service contract, this is not unique to Smugmug, and the broken links if you change hosting companies is definitely not unique to Smugmug.

paulbrock

Jeana, assuming you continue to use jeanachang.com, what you need to do is ensure that the links that google currently has indexed will point to the photos/galleries on whoever you move to.

This is still tricky, but possible. Though you will need to look at how Zenfolio or whoever handle domain names.

What you'll probably need to do is create forwarding links, so e.g. http://www.jeanachang.com/Birds/Baltimore-Orioles-1/7576849_kM6xj9 forwards to wherever you have your Baltimore Orioles on the new site. This should work for Google I believe, particularly with regards to incoming links. The tech support at either your new photo storage hosts, or whoever you administer your domain with might be able to help with this. (its also entirely possible this is something they don't support)

Its also a lot of work, unless there's a way of automating it. Probably only going to be worthwhile for the most popular galleries/photos.

You'll lose the x.smugmug.com links if google has indexed those though, I'm not sure there's a way round that.

Dreadnote

Look on the bright side...at least your photos have been found. After 2 years with SmugMug, having keyworded every photo with a minimum of my site URL, the images that google supplies if you type in my URL into google and then select images are images of the pictures other people have posted and I have commented on. Or you might get the pictures that people use for their avatars in posts that I have commented on or that have commented on pictures I have posted. You get all kinds of crap, but not a single image from any of my galleries....

Bummer huh? At least I don't have to worry about the links being broken as they never existed in the first place.

jachang

paulbrock wrote: »

Jeana, assuming you continue to use jeanachang.com, what you need to do is ensure that the links that google currently has indexed will point to the photos/galleries on whoever you move to.

This is still tricky, but possible. Though you will need to look at how Zenfolio or whoever handle domain names.

What you'll probably need to do is create forwarding links, so e.g. http://www.jeanachang.com/Birds/Baltimore-Orioles-1/7576849_kM6xj9 forwards to wherever you have your Baltimore Orioles on the new site. This should work for Google I believe, particularly with regards to incoming links. The tech support at either your new photo storage hosts, or whoever you administer your domain with might be able to help with this. (its also entirely possible this is something they don't support)

Its also a lot of work, unless there's a way of automating it. Probably only going to be worthwhile for the most popular galleries/photos.

You'll lose the x.smugmug.com links if google has indexed those though, I'm not sure there's a way round that.

Thanks for this info! I'm not sure how I would go about any of this stuff, so it will take a lot of time and effort, I'm sure. My anniversary date with SM is in January so I have a bit of time to either make a transition elsewhere or find a way to justify the added cost.

I'm wondering if I could downgrade to the new pro level, then just turn off the buy button completely, and only offer, for example, three sizes. Then on my home page, have a statement that all are for sale, have a little price list for them, and then have anyone interested in buying e-mail me, and I could put the order in and SM could fill the order and ship. The other place would be to put the prices in the caption area of each photo. It's sure not an ideal situation, but I'm grabbing at straws.

Thanks again!

jachang

Dreadnote wrote: »

Look on the bright side...at least your photos have been found. After 2 years with SmugMug, having keyworded every photo with a minimum of my site URL, the images that google supplies if you type in my URL into google and then select images are images of the pictures other people have posted and I have commented on. Or you might get the pictures that people use for their avatars in posts that I have commented on or that have commented on pictures I have posted. You get all kinds of crap, but not a single image from any of my galleries....

Bummer huh? At least I don't have to worry about the links being broken as they never existed in the first place.

Yes, that's a bright side, but also a discouraging side. I would hate to have to go through this all over again. I have no idea what happened. I kept hounding and hounding SM, asking why my photos didn't appear to be indexed, except for the tiny thumbnails showing up on image search. They insisted nothing was wrong. I knew something was wrong in their indexing. Suddenly, all at once, my photos started appearing in image search. I don't know if SM fixed whatever was wrong or if the search engines finally all woke up at once and decided they liked my images. At any rate, I hate to rock the boat now, but I'm afraid my bank account won't be able to justify this cost without making more sales. Anything I've sold from SM has been items that I have ordered from them and then delivered to my customers myself. I can see this is NOT going to be my ticket to retirement! :cry

Ferguson

jachang wrote: »

Anything I've sold from SM has been items that I have ordered from them and then delivered to my customers myself. I can see this is NOT going to be my ticket to retirement! :cry

So stick with a Power User account and keep doing that, no shopping cart, no Bay Photo, but the rest is I think $60/year. Or the portfolio account if you want the pro labs is about the original Pro price.

PS. I'm not trying to be a SM apologist; they need to answer to the customers they have upset. Just trying to suggest a path for you.

jachang

Ferguson wrote: »

So stick with a Power User account and keep doing that, no shopping cart, no Bay Photo, but the rest is I think $60/year. Or the portfolio account if you want the pro labs is about the original Pro price.

PS. I'm not trying to be a SM apologist; they need to answer to the customers they have upset. Just trying to suggest a path for you.

Thanks, I understand, and appreciate the suggestions. I agree they should give us some answers. As for my account, I'm still weighing my options. As for Bay Photo, that's not a problem either way, since I already have my own account with them. I guess my biggest decision is whether or not to continue doing business with a company who has shaken my trust.