Nikon D3s or D4

kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
edited December 3, 2012 in Cameras
Hello folks.... I'm on the fence here, comtemplating which way to fall. I'll soon be purchasing another body to use in low light situations. I mainly shoot all sports on the high school level. I'm sort of limited in low light situations... basketball indoors, and football on friday nights and I do not want to draw attention to myself with a flash !! I've gotten by with my D700 after bumping the ISO up so far.. but I'm right on the edge of grain in some shots by doing so... with my f2.8 70-200mm and the f2.8 300mm.

I know the D4 is the:cool latest and greatest, but the D3s is also great in low light situations and I like the dual CF card feature. The D4 has the Sony XQD (can't find card:scratch reader yet) slot and one CF slot. I've found several shops on Ebay that still offer the D3s for a few $$ less.... all new and unopened so they:deal claim!!

Has anyone out there compared the two... will there be any difference in image quality ? Or, would I be cutting myself short.. planning on keeping this body for a long time ! I've read a lot of reviews already.. but just wanted more opinions on the two peices. Lots of $$ here... want to spend it wisely !!

Thanks folks !!
K P Steib Photography
Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono

Comments

  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    kennuts wrote: »
    Hello folks.... I'm on the fence here, comtemplating which way to fall. I'll soon be purchasing another body to use in low light situations. I mainly shoot all sports on the high school level. I'm sort of limited in low light situations... basketball indoors, and football on friday nights and I do not want to draw attention to myself with a flash !! I've gotten by with my D700 after bumping the ISO up so far.. but I'm right on the edge of grain in some shots by doing so... with my f2.8 70-200mm and the f2.8 300mm.

    I know the D4 is the:cool latest and greatest, but the D3s is also great in low light situations and I like the dual CF card feature. The D4 has the Sony XQD (can't find cardheadscratch.gif reader yet) slot and one CF slot. I've found several shops on Ebay that still offer the D3s for a few $$ less.... all new and unopened so theydeal.gif claim!!

    Has anyone out there compared the two... will there be any difference in image quality ? Or, would I be cutting myself short.. planning on keeping this body for a long time ! I've read a lot of reviews already.. but just wanted more opinions on the two peices. Lots of $$ here... want to spend it wisely !!

    Thanks folks !!

    I shoot with both of them and its a win win. My D4 had an XQD card and an XQD card reader bundled with the camera. IMHO, unless video is a concern I would go for the D3s. The D4`'s main advantage is the ability to AF at f/8 allowing you to use the 2.o TC on f/4 lenses. For a wildlife shooter that's a consideration but no so much for sports.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    I'd go with the D3s to be honest. The D4 will not offer any low light advantage, and the cards are more expensive. At least at this point. I would not pay a boatlad for a new D3s though. If the price difference is small, then get the D4. Personally, I would say get a lightly used D3s. I had contemplated selling one of mine with less than 12k actuations, but the D4 didn't offer enough features for me to move forward.
    www.ptfphoto.com
    perroneford@ptfphoto.com
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    Harryb wrote: »
    I shoot with both of them and its a win win. My D4 had an XQD card and an XQD card reader bundled with the camera. IMHO, unless video is a concern I would go for the D3s. The D4`'s main advantage is the ability to AF at f/8 allowing you to use the 2.o TC on f/4 lenses. For a wildlife shooter that's a consideration but no so much for sports.

    Thanks for ur reply Harryb !! Yeah, I'm not too concerned about video aspect... probably won't use it at all. As you mentioned.... to be able to AF at f/8 wouldn' be an issue either !! I'm starting to lean on that fence... !mwink.gif Thanks for ur opinion Harryb !! I appreciate it !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    perroneford wrote: »
    I'd go with the D3s to be honest. The D4 will not offer any low light advantage, and the cards are more expensive. At least at this point. I would not pay a boatlad for a new D3s though. If the price difference is small, then get the D4. Personally, I would say get a lightly used D3s. I had contemplated selling one of mine with less than 12k actuations, but the D4 didn't offer enough features for me to move forward.

    Yes sir... I've seen a few new D3s's for more(buy it now on ebay) than what B&H wants for the D4 !! Also, I seen a few of the slightly used refurbished D3s's for several hundred $$ less than the D4 asking price at B&H. I know the D4 is rated for 300k actuations.. and figured the D3s should be about the same. That being said.... 12k actuations like ur's is still a new piece the way I see it !!

    Great reply... thanks for ur input perroneford !! I appreciate it !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • ZerodogZerodog Registered Users Posts: 1,480 Major grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    Photographyreview.com is doing a very detailed review of the D4 in the very near future. I was fortunate enough to be a part of it comparing the D3s to the D4 for low light action. Here was my take on it. If you have a D3s it is not much of an upgrade. The noise levels at all levels are very similar. That said, the D4 does this with more resolution. The AF system on it is possibly slightly better. But overall you are splitting hairs. If I were to buy a new body the D4 would be it. But I would not sell my D3s to get one. As others have said, the D3s is holding it's value very well. For a bit more, you get the D4 with a more resolution, faster frame rate, and a warranty.
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    Zerodog wrote: »
    Photographyreview.com is doing a very detailed review of the D4 in the very near future. I was fortunate enough to be a part of it comparing the D3s to the D4 for low light action. Here was my take on it. If you have a D3s it is not much of an upgrade. The noise levels at all levels are very similar. That said, the D4 does this with more resolution. The AF system on it is possibly slightly better. But overall you are splitting hairs. If I were to buy a new body the D4 would be it. But I would not sell my D3s to get one. As others have said, the D3s is holding it's value very well. For a bit more, you get the D4 with a more resolution, faster frame rate, and a warranty.

    Very good points raised here Zerodog !! I look forward to seeing the review you mentioned. I guess since I'm using the D700 now in low light situations... a D3s would be an upgrade for me the way I see it. Seems like a lot bigger gap in results coming off of a D700 and going to a D3s. A bit more resolution and frame rate with the D4.... hummnnnn, something I'll consider !!

    Thanks for ur reply... greatly apprciated !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • ZerodogZerodog Registered Users Posts: 1,480 Major grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    Either one is an upgrade from the D700. If I were in your shoes it would be a tough choice. I wouldn't sell the D700 to buy a D3s or D4 though either. I would keep the D700 if it was in good shape. That thing is no joke either.

    Here is another thing to think of. The XQ card is cool and it has a lot of promise for more speed and capacity. But the 2 different card slots kill me. I love the dual card slot of the D3s. This is a consideration to have. Cards are not cheap either. If you have a bunch of high $$$ CF cards do you want to start buying XQs too?

    Some of the new buttons and layout of the D4 are really nice to use too. I think you can see more info and adjust more with the touch of a button instead of going into the menus.
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited September 11, 2012
    Zerodog wrote: »
    Either one is an upgrade from the D700. If I were in your shoes it would be a tough choice. I wouldn't sell the D700 to buy a D3s or D4 though either. I would keep the D700 if it was in good shape. That thing is no joke either.

    Here is another thing to think of. The XQ card is cool and it has a lot of promise for more speed and capacity. But the 2 different card slots kill me. I love the dual card slot of the D3s. This is a consideration to have. Cards are not cheap either. If you have a bunch of high $$$ CF cards do you want to start buying XQs too?

    Some of the new buttons and layout of the D4 are really nice to use too. I think you can see more info and adjust more with the touch of a button instead of going into the menus.

    Oh... I'm not planning on selling the D700.... ur correct it's really good peice, just a tad bit short in low light situations. For sure the dual card slots feature of the D3s is really a plus I say. I read a couple of reviews on the XQD's by die hard CF's users and some stated that they were scepital at first but after using the XQD's... they wished both slots of the D4 were XQD's. That's cool.. but those bad boys are $$$$$ !! I'll await the review you mentioned in an earlier post... maybe by then all available new D3s will be sold... that would narrow down my choices somewhat !! Thanks for your thoughts !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited September 12, 2012
    I faced the same decision you're considering and came down on the side of a factory refurbed D3s. Happy, happy. Look at KEH, Adorama or B&H. Believe it or not, the refurbed body I got had only around 2500 shutter actuations.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited September 13, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    I faced the same decision you're considering and came down on the side of a factory refurbed D3s. Happy, happy. Look at KEH, Adorama or B&H. Believe it or not, the refurbed body I got had only around 2500 shutter actuations.

    Thanks Icebear... I will check out the stores you suggested. I really like the dual CF set up of the D3s... it's really the only reason I haven't fell over to the D4 side of the fence. Several other folks have posted on here stating that the D4 features are slighty better than the D3s but that may not matter too much to me... the way I shoot.

    Looks like a real good buy you made with the refurbed D3s... only 2500 acuations.. that's practically a new peice !! Contrats !
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • spider-tspider-t Registered Users Posts: 443 Major grins
    edited October 4, 2012
    I find my D4 focuses noticeably better in almost all situations than my D3. It also evaluates flash exposure way better than my D3. Unfortunately I can't speak to the D3s. It's possible Nikon had already made those improvements by the time the D3s came along. I know some D3s shooters that are thrilled with their camera. And if you can get a bargain, I'm sure it'll be worth it.
    http://www.trishtunney.com
  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited October 4, 2012
    Adding a new wrinkle to this... Sandisk is not supporting XQD. And now I feel like a genius for cancelling my D4 pre-order...

    http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/09/sandisk-to-skip-xqd-keep-focus-cfast
    www.ptfphoto.com
    perroneford@ptfphoto.com
  • WayupthereWayupthere Registered Users Posts: 179 Major grins
    edited October 7, 2012
    I have read quite a few threads like this one, and I keep hearing the same impressions..
    Low light is very close and very good.
    D4 is a little better focusing in low light.
    D4 has faster frame rate.
    D3s has the dual card slots

    I hear the money issue brought up..I hear the card slot thing a bunch..
    But what I sticks out for me is you guys with both are not bragging up the 35% more pixels. headscratch.gif
    Are you not seeing a marked improvement in prints? This is the one issue that is tipping me towards the D4..35% is nothing to sneeze at.
    I wish it had the same 25 as my D3x..maybe the D4x mwink.gif
    Gary
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited October 11, 2012
    spider-t wrote: »
    I find my D4 focuses noticeably better in almost all situations than my D3. It also evaluates flash exposure way better than my D3. Unfortunately I can't speak to the D3s. It's possible Nikon had already made those improvements by the time the D3s came along. I know some D3s shooters that are thrilled with their camera. And if you can get a bargain, I'm sure it'll be worth it.

    Yeah... you're right about that... maybe Nikon did make those improvements ! I've spoken presonally to a couple of D3s owners and they're not even concerned about the D4.. couldn't be happier with their D3s's ..... focusing, pixels, CF cards, image quality... etc ! Just about got enough $$ to get something !! Thanks for your input !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited October 11, 2012
    perroneford wrote: »
    Adding a new wrinkle to this... Sandisk is not supporting XQD. And now I feel like a genius for cancelling my D4 pre-order...

    http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/09/sandisk-to-skip-xqd-keep-focus-cfast

    Hummnnn... Sandisk, got a bunch of these, don't use anything else ! Guess it will be a Sony thing for now with the QXD's ! This is interesting to know perroneford.. D3s for ya mwink.gif? Thanks for the wrinkle...
    Will be buying something soon... !
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited October 11, 2012
    Wayupthere wrote: »
    I have read quite a few threads like this one, and I keep hearing the same impressions..
    Low light is very close and very good.
    D4 is a little better focusing in low light.
    D4 has faster frame rate.
    D3s has the dual card slots

    I hear the money issue brought up..I hear the card slot thing a bunch..
    But what I sticks out for me is you guys with both are not bragging up the 35% more pixels. headscratch.gif
    Are you not seeing a marked improvement in prints? This is the one issue that is tipping me towards the D4..35% is nothing to sneeze at.
    I wish it had the same 25 as my D3x..maybe the D4x mwink.gif
    Gary

    Another good point to ponder thumb.gif... thanks for ur input !
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • spider-tspider-t Registered Users Posts: 443 Major grins
    edited October 12, 2012
    kennuts wrote: »
    Another good point to ponder thumb.gif... thanks for ur input !


    Anecdotally, I find my D4 noticeably sharper than my D3 with a wider dynamic range. I haven't printed anything large yet. I've only had it a couple of months and I haven't had a chance to make work for myself yet. But I've made a lot of work for others. And I feel like I have super powers with this camera.

    The wacky Sony card sorta of sucks because it's so expensive and doesn't match the other slot, but WOW is it fast. Seriously. End of the day, transferring 16g to my laptop while converting nef to dng takes about a quarter of the time as my CF card. I use it all the time and just use the CF as an overflow slot for my long shoots.

    I imagine if you're looking to print huge, you'd consider the giant files of the D800. But really, I've had no trouble printing big with my 12mp. I have even printed as large as 5 feet wide with my 6mp D70 back in the day. So maybe I'm not the right person to ask about printing. :-)
    http://www.trishtunney.com
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited October 14, 2012
    spider-t wrote: »
    Anecdotally, I find my D4 noticeably sharper than my D3 with a wider dynamic range. I haven't printed anything large yet. I've only had it a couple of months and I haven't had a chance to make work for myself yet. But I've made a lot of work for others. And I feel like I have super powers with this camera.

    The wacky Sony card sorta of sucks because it's so expensive and doesn't match the other slot, but WOW is it fast. Seriously. End of the day, transferring 16g to my laptop while converting nef to dng takes about a quarter of the time as my CF card. I use it all the time and just use the CF as an overflow slot for my long shoots.

    I imagine if you're looking to print huge, you'd consider the giant files of the D800. But really, I've had no trouble printing big with my 12mp. I have even printed as large as 5 feet wide with my 6mp D70 back in the day. So maybe I'm not the right person to ask about printing. :-)

    Good points made Spider-T.... you mentioned that you've done large prints with lesser mp's than the D3s (12) with no problems ! I've heard that before... others have talked about that also with positive results with larger prints from bodies without a ton of mp's ! I like the speed of mwink.gifthe QXD Sony per say... but it's another card ne_nau.gif . Still headscratch.gif thinking and gathering info on both pieces... decison coming soon !!

    Thanks for your input... really appreciate it !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited November 27, 2012
    Well folks..... I started this thread a few months ago, stating that I was on the fence about a which way to fall... D3s or the D4 ne_nau.gif. Well, the $'s are ready to be used and after carefull listening to all of your comments and ideas, and looking at tons:whew of reviews I fallen on the D4 side of the fence ! Will order in a couple days from B&H.. my favorite photo shop. Lots of $'s.. I'm still a little nervy bout pulling the trigger...:confused but I think I'll be okay once I see and touch it, AND shoot with itthumb.gif !

    Thanks guys for all of your inputs and ideas, each one helped !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • ZerodogZerodog Registered Users Posts: 1,480 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2012
    Congrats man!! You really couldn't go wrong either way. The D4 is awesome. IMO it is Nikons best camera right now.
  • SteveFSteveF Registered Users Posts: 466 Major grins
    edited November 30, 2012
    Hey,

    I was reading through this, but by the time I got to the bottom I realized I was a little late to the party.

    That being said, one feature of the D4 that I really like for any kind of action is the buffer depth. It is amazing how many raw's it can shoot before there is even a hint of slowing.
    Steve
    www.finesart.com
  • spider-tspider-t Registered Users Posts: 443 Major grins
    edited December 2, 2012
    Since you're opening your wallet, I recommend also getting the QDA-EX1 XQD ExpressCard if you've got a slot in your laptop. It's around $44 and takes some of the sting out of the XQD cards. Convenient and fast. Accessing the images on it feels as fast as when they're on my hard drive.

    Best of luck with your photographic endeavors!
    Trish
    http://www.trishtunney.com
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited December 3, 2012
    Zerodog wrote: »
    Congrats man!! You really couldn't go wrong either way. The D4 is awesome. IMO it is Nikons best camera right now.

    Thanks Zerodog....thumb.gif ! Now that I've pulled the trigger and ordered the camera, can't wait to get it in and take it for a spin... should be in this week ! Thanks for your opinion.. really appreciated the help !!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited December 3, 2012
    SteveF wrote: »
    Hey,

    I was reading through this, but by the time I got to the bottom I realized I was a little late to the party.

    That being said, one feature of the D4 that I really like for any kind of action is the buffer depth. It is amazing how many raw's it can shoot before there is even a hint of slowing.

    Yes sir... I've heard that also about the buffer depth on a D4 review too ! I shoot JPEG.... gonna be off the chain probably !
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited December 3, 2012
    spider-t wrote: »
    Since you're opening your wallet, I recommend also getting the QDA-EX1 XQD ExpressCard if you've got a slot in your laptop. It's around $44 and takes some of the sting out of the XQD cards. Convenient and fast. Accessing the images on it feels as fast as when they're on my hard drive.

    Best of luck with your photographic endeavors!
    Trish

    Laughing.gif... yep the wallet opened, ordered the D4, and extra Battery, XQD cards and reader, and Lexar CF cards... the wallet is empty Spider-T. .... my lapper has the slot, but I'm having problems with it... been working off of the desktop for a while now. Thanks, may spend some more $'s down the road.
    I heard that Lexar is going to start producing XQD's soonmwink.gif ( good deal ) !

    Thanks for the well wishes with the new piece thumb.gif!
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
  • kennutskennuts Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited December 3, 2012
    carter2 wrote: »
    If you don't already own a D3/D3s, choosing between a D3s and a D4 would be a no-brainer to most pros--a difference of only $800 is a trivial amount for the announced improvements.[/QUO

    I don't own either... my D700 is my best low-light performer... well, was now ! A couple guys threw the $ numbers into the mix also thumb.gif! Done deal now... !!

    Thanks Carter2
    K P Steib Photography
    Nikon D50, D300, D700, D4, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, Nikor TC-20E II 2x, Nikkor TC-1.4, Nikkor 300mm f2.8 GII, Nikkor 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G, Nikon MB-D10 BP, Nikon SB-600 AF SL, Slick MP, Manfrotto 468MGRC2 Ballhead w/680B Mono
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