not in it for the $$$

windoze

in the last week ive been propositioned to do: 1 bat mitzvah, two sporting events, 3 family portraits, next years crafts fair at my daughters school and as of today a huge ballet recital. Ive turned them all down. This is not a business for me, its a way to relax.... i could never take pictures for $$, I wouldnt enjoy it anymore. So all you real photogs out there this must be the time of the year to make $$ so get busy and keep the "clients" far away from me...............
troy

Andy

windoze wrote:

in the last week ive been propositioned to do: 1 bat mitzvah, two sporting events, 3 family portraits, next years crafts fair at my daughters school and as of today a huge ballet recital. Ive turned them all down. This is not a business for me, its a way to relax.... i could never take pictures for $$, I wouldnt enjoy it anymore. So all you real photogs out there this must be the time of the year to make $$ so get busy and keep the "clients" far away from me...............
troy

What's cool is you could call for NY area photogs who might be able to do that portrait or event work - referrals are great!

gus

I feel the same way troy. As soon as there is money involved then there is pressure for output. The camera is for my relaxation & nothing else

Of course there is nothing wrong with the barter system...let me shoot here & the shots are yours for free. I do that a bit.

4labs

Troy I always tell myself the same thing and than I realize it is probably because I don't have enough confidence in my ability. Just think of all the lenses and other crap you could buy with the extra dough. You certainly have the ability it might be fun to try a low pressure event and make some money for it. I'd refer Andy and than ask to tag along and learn all I could...Just my 2cents...

Shay Stephens

2006 is going to be hoppin'
It is not your imagination. My bookings usually take off in November (the beginning of the booking season for the next year) and this year is stronger than last year. Looks like 2006 is going to be booked up early.

Now for me, computers are like photography for you. I loved computers, so I got into the biz. It killed my love for it, I was doing computer work for my friends, and over a short period of time, bammo, I was not having fun anymore.

David_S85

Passion. It's not just for breakfast anymore.
I am one who long ago had a hobby and a passion, and then somehow ended up in an associated retail business for several decades. The work killed off my passion for that activity early on, and for a long time, doing that activity myself (bike riding) reminded me too much of work, and I didn't ride at all, and that almost (literally) killed me. The time it took running a growing business also killed my time for photography, but that is a different story.

About a decade into retail, I was able to unlink the two and enjoy riding like I did before, then go to the job without making the connection between the two. But that realization came gradually. Today, the two are thankfully mutually exclusive (I'm in retail still, although part time, and not at my own store). I am very lucky I could make that disconnect in my head - and if for some reason I couldn't, then I'd forever be loser.

I often wonder how many working photogs began with the passion, then making it their work, and losing the passion they started with through the daily grind, and becoming jaded due to the process and business workflow.

One friend is a sports photographer who shoots primarily for local newspapers. He is very good at it, and works every weekend. He does carry a very small point-n-shoot for personal snapshots, but I do wonder if he can ever just go out and really shoot hi-end artsy stuff just for the fun of it anymore. Many can't make that transition back to their passion.

Troy, if you turn down offers such as these for all the good reasons -- then more power to you buddy!

But if someone wants to buy 95 gorilla portraits earning you a few thousand dollars, you're going to say "yes," right?

Nikolai

Troy
The choice is always yours and if you don't feel like doing this (for money or for free) - that's totally cool and I doubt anybody (except the turned-down would-be customers) would have any problem with that.

However, since we're all chatting here, I personally think that doing a paid job is one of the relatively fast and sure ways to become a "pro". Not (necessarily) in a sense of the charging X amount of money for Y number of shots, but in a sense of the ultimate quality of one's skills. It's one thing to take a snapshots of your kids/friends for yourself, and totally different thing to take a picture of complete strangers and make sure they love it. I'm referring to portraits for simplicity reasons, but you can extrapolate this to any other type of photographic assignments.

I - again, strictly personally - consider paid jobs to be necessary steps in improving one's photographic skills. And from whatever little experience I have I can honestly say that this method works - at least, for me it does :-).

Just my 0.000002 of the f/stop...

windoze

David_S85 wrote:

I am one who long ago had a hobby and a passion, and then somehow ended up in an associated retail business for several decades. The work killed off my passion for that activity early on, and for a long time, doing that activity myself (bike riding) reminded me too much of work, and I didn't ride at all, and that almost (literally) killed me. The time it took running a growing business also killed my time for photography, but that is a different story.

About a decade into retail, I was able to unlink the two and enjoy riding like I did before, then go to the job without making the connection between the two. But that realization came gradually. Today, the two are thankfully mutually exclusive (I'm in retail still, although part time, and not at my own store). I am very lucky I could make that disconnect in my head - and if for some reason I couldn't, then I'd forever be loser.

I often wonder how many working photogs began with the passion, then making it their work, and losing the passion they started with through the daily grind, and becoming jaded due to the process and business workflow.

One friend is a sports photographer who shoots primarily for local newspapers. He is very good at it, and works every weekend. He does carry a very small point-n-shoot for personal snapshots, but I do wonder if he can ever just go out and really shoot hi-end artsy stuff just for the fun of it anymore. Many can't make that transition back to their passion.

Troy, if you turn down offers such as these for all the good reasons -- then more power to you buddy!

But if someone wants to buy 95 gorilla portraits earning you a few thousand dollars, you're going to say "yes," right?

dont get me wrong about the $$. If someone wants to buy an image from me, I'd gladly sell it. I just dont wanna go into a situation where i have to "get the shot" to make $$. im too critical of myself, of the thousands of images ive taken there is only about three that I think are worthy for sale. im not against making good $$. just don want to have the responsibility to get "the shot". it's all about accountability..... i flee from those situations....
i started taking pictures for one reason, i often miss the simple and beautiful things in life. i didnt realize how fast kids grow up, i never knew some animals could be so majestic looking.... i started taking pictures to help me see the things ive missed... to do it for $$ would mean id miss those things again........


troy

troy

Shay Stephens

I went into the biz with computers because I thought it would be fun. Result, I didn't last.

I got into the photography biz for the money. Result, I am having fun.

I think it pays to listen to that voice in your head and have the right motivation and outlook going into it.

windoze wrote:

i started taking pictures for one reason, i often miss the simple and beautiful things in life. i didnt realize how fast kids grow up, i never knew some animals could be so majestic looking.... i started taking pictures to help me see the things ive missed... to do it for $$ would mean id miss those things again........

gtc

cash from pics-it can be fun too
i have the utmost respect for profesional photographers-dealing with clients,getting a shot to order,competing for jobs in a tight market etc etc.

Doing a wedding or a commercial product shoot,or revolving door studio portaiture leaves me cold,even though this is how many professional photographer survives-either specialising in,say, sport as per some of the examples mentioned here,and becoming bored or a generalist who does a bit of everything.

I would rather take shots that I like and then see if I can sell them.There is no client to say "erk i dont like it ,do it again or I'm not paying etc".Instead if they don't like it then they don't buy.

I therefore exhibit framed prints in cafe galleries etc.

Usually they don't charge commission.

If no one buys then I have a framed print that I like.

They do buy however and I sell for between $150 for an A4 and up to to $300
for an A3.

I get my framing done for about $45.00 for an A3,the paper and ink would be about $5-6.00.I don't factor in my time etc,cos its fun not work.

Once I have a larger collection of confirmed sellers I will exhibit in a proper gallery,and bump up the prices.

So at the end of the day I shoot for my own pleasure,print up on my 19950 at home,for pleasure,and then put them up and sell for cash/gear and more shooting pleasure.

I am also developing a selection of macro images for stock agencies.Again these are images that interest me and I take pleasure in the process.

I guess this is the path of an artist rather than a commercial photographer,however this may be a path that you could take to combine income with pleasure-they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Greg

windoze wrote:

in the last week ive been propositioned to do: 1 bat mitzvah, two sporting events, 3 family portraits, next years crafts fair at my daughters school and as of today a huge ballet recital. Ive turned them all down. This is not a business for me, its a way to relax.... i could never take pictures for $$, I wouldnt enjoy it anymore. So all you real photogs out there this must be the time of the year to make $$ so get busy and keep the "clients" far away from me...............
troy

mercphoto

Shay Stephens wrote:

I went into the biz with computers because I thought it would be fun. Result, I didn't last.

You approached that as a hobby, expecting it to pay the bills.

I got into the photography biz for the money. Result, I am having fun.

You approached that as a business. As a result, it does pay the bills.

Obviously I'm speaking to the choir and Shay already knows all this.

I think it pays to listen to that voice in your head and have the right motivation and outlook going into it.

Absolutely. Treating something as a hobby is perfectly fine, but just realize it might not turn into a business. Hobbies consume money, they don't create money. Treat something as a business and expect it to pay your bills, but realize the fun might diminish as a result. It is possible to have both at the same time but don't count on it. Sometimes people get too hung up on "doing what you love" as a career. My career enables me to do what I love. I like my job, but I love my hobbies.

I also agree with the comment above, from Nikoli I think, that having a paying customer helps force you to become better. I have found that the case myself. If you are leary of this then simply pick your paying gigs carefully. YMMV.

flyingpylon

mercphoto wrote:

Treating something as a hobby is perfectly fine, but just realize it might not turn into a business. Hobbies consume money, they don't create money. Treat something as a business and expect it to pay your bills, but realize the fun might diminish as a result. It is possible to have both at the same time but don't count on it. Sometimes people get too hung up on "doing what you love" as a career.

This is pretty much why I continue to buy lottery tickets...

ian408

Shay Stephens wrote:

Now for me, computers are like photography for you. I loved computers, so I got into the biz. It killed my love for it, I was doing computer work for my friends, and over a short period of time, bammo, I was not having fun anymore.

It's like owning a truck. Everyone's your friend come moving time

Ian

gus

ian408 wrote:

It's like owning a truck. Everyone's your friend come moving time

Ian

Try being an electrician. "I just need this & that..it shouldnt take you long" (as if they would know) So you crawl around in their ceiling amoungst the red-backs & fibreglass insulation when its over 100F outside & after 5 hours they walk up & hold out a 50 !!!

I stopped doing it a looong long time ago.

Shay Stephens

Oh man, this is so true. I was an electrician a long time ago too. I totally dropped talking about electricity to anyone and everyone because of the attics and the crawl spaces under houses. Worst environments on the face of the earth hehehe.

I think I am going to try passing myself off as an eccentric guy who has no job...like Kramer on Seinfeld hehehe

Humungus wrote:

Try being an electrician. "I just need this & that..it shouldnt take you long" (as if they would know) So you crawl around in their ceiling amoungst the red-backs & fibreglass insulation when its over 100F outside & after 5 hours they walk up & hold out a 50 !!!

I stopped doing it a looong long time ago.

gus

Shay Stephens wrote:

Oh man, this is so true. I was an electrician a long time ago too. I totally dropped talking about electricity to anyone and everyone because of the attics and the crawl spaces under houses. Worst environments on the face of the earth hehehe.

I think I am going to try passing myself off as an eccentric guy who has no job...like Kramer on Seinfeld hehehe

And this is what i hate the most...we got these blokes in a few places i work & they love underneath houses.

They are very unfriendly aggresive fella's.

Shay Stephens

Spiders, why did it have to be spiders!
A shiver down my spine there Gus, they are huge!!!

Kind of like a tarantula here in the states.

Humungus wrote:

And this is what i hate the most...we got these blokes in a few places i work & they love underneath houses.

They are very unfriendly aggresive fella's.

gus

Shay Stephens wrote:

A shiver down my spine there Gus, they are huge!!!

Kind of like a tarantula here in the states.

We have a tarantular here (bird eating spider) he is fairly gentle & in remote places

Did you read this bit ..they get in your shoes at night.

and is capable of causing death in as little as 15 minutes.

Shay Stephens

I really don't want to know the details hehehehe



Of all the things, spiders give me the biggest creep factor

Humungus wrote:

We have a tarantular here (bird eating spider) he is fairly gentle & in remote places

Did you read this bit ..they get in your shoes at night.

and is capable of causing death in as little as 15 minutes.

LiquidOps

Shay Stephens wrote:

I really don't want to know the details hehehehe



Of all the things, spiders give me the biggest creep factor

Hey Shay.... What's that on your shoulder??
















:hide

DavidTO

I was my daughter's hero the other night. Spider in her room. I scooped it up in my hand, carried it outside and let it go. She, wide-eyed, said, "What are you, crazy!?!?"

I woulda just killed it if she wasn't watching.