Project: 580 EX II External Power from SLA Battery to High Voltage Port

Crewd

Hey all,

I'm looking for the electronic nerds around here. I'm working on building the following and I'd like input or recommendations for resources that others might know about.

I've got 4 Canon 580 EX II's that I'm shooting with all the time; a lot of out door, on location, compete with the sun type of stuff. Invariably the batteries die on these things... And of course they dont all die at the same time.

They prefer to space out the dead batteries such that about the time I have finished replacing the batteries in one of the lights and have begun to get back into the flow of shooting with my subject, the next flash will be dead. Rinse and repeat for the remaining 2 additional speedlites. (kill me)

So, I've had it with these little groups of 4 AAs -- also I've done enough electronics work to know that the external battery packs like the Canon CP-E4 is a freaking rip off for what it does inside that little black box. And for me that would be 4 rip offs and way too much money ($600) to still have to deal with a bunch of AAs ($100 worth to fill them up once). I tried the knock off version and almost killed one of my 580's with it so that was promptly returned, never to be risked again.

So... I want to get 4 sealed lead acid batteries for like 40 to 60 bucks each that hold about 15 to 35 Ah each and wire it into the high voltage ports on my 580's.

Is this over kill? Hell yes. :barb But this is one of those problems that has now aggravated me to the point that I want to obliterate it in a scorched earth sort of way.

I have also spent enough hours googling for alternatives to be pretty sure that I do not want:

• High voltage battery packs from other companies (too expensive)
• AC adapters (expensive) that I would have to plug into inverters (expensive) that would then plug into the same batteries that I would need for the above plan.
• The DIY battery packs that plug into the flashes normal battery pack area using fake batteries, etc. (This doesnt improve recycle times much, just longevity -- and if I'm hauling around extra batteries I want it all)

So I need to know the following to get started -- or at least recomendations on where I could find the following:

• What is the input voltage on that port on the 580 ex ii's?
• Do I need to try limiting the current?
• Is it really as simple as a voltage conversion from the 12 volt SLA to the high voltage (>300?) port?

Also, I'm aware that I can damage the flashes if I cycle them too fast (something that this would make possible).

I would appreciate any input from anyone on the project. I will be sharing the results with the community of course.

ziggy53

Crewd wrote: »

... I've done enough electronics work to know that the external battery packs like the Canon CP-E4 is a freaking rip off for what it does inside that little black box.

... I want to get 4 sealed lead acid batteries for like 40 to 60 bucks each that hold about 15 to 35 Ah each and wire it into the high voltage ports on my 580's.

... What is the input voltage on that port on the 580 ex ii's?
... Do I need to try limiting the current?
... Is it really as simple as a voltage conversion from the 12 volt SLA to the high voltage (>300?) port?

... Also, I'm aware that I can damage the flashes if I cycle them too fast (something that this would make possible).

I would appreciate any input from anyone on the project. I will be sharing the results with the community of course.

I distilled your inquiry into the most pertinent parts.

IMO the best solution to rapid cycling of any manufacturer's speedlight/speedlite is indeed using the external high-voltage power supplies. Third-party high-voltage power supplies of sufficiently high quality exist and provide a very cost-effective solution.

In an external high-voltage power supply solution, the batteries inside the flash are still required and they are used to supply the control circuits of the flash. The external high-voltage power supply has its own excitation and voltage increase circuits, as well as power regulation circuits. The combination of internal and external power supplies combine to provide the benefits of faster recharge as well as longer periods (in terms of the number of flashes) between battery replacement.

I highly recommend that you just pay the price for an OEM external high-voltage power supply, if you want to protect the warranty of your flashes, or purchase a third-party external high-voltage power supply, accepting the risk of possible damage to your flashes.

I've been using a "JJC FB-1" external high-voltage power supply for almost 3-years now, on 2 different Canon 580EX (first version) flashes, with no apparent damage to either flash. I see that JJC is back in production with their model "II" version, which some places appear to sell through Amazon without the "II" designation.

While I cannot recommend any third-party external power supply, all of them have the capability to damage your flash and void your warranty, the above model has worked for me.

If you should decide to build your own, please don't share the details. A high-voltage power supply of this kind has the capacity to kill, and we can't publish anything so dangerous on this site.

Crewd

ziggy53 wrote: »

I distilled your inquiry into the most pertinent parts.

Thanks?

Misquote from ziggy53 post wrote: »

Use the expensive battery packs that are already out there or risk damage and warranty.

The external packs have their own excitation, voltage increase, and power regulation and can work together with the batteries in the flash

Check out the "JJC FB-1", they have a new version out for your flash. Even though it's worked for me they might damage yours.

I take personal responsibility for the content of your posts so dont post anything that people may harm themselves with -- even though the law is pretty clear in that sites are generally not responsible for the content their users post.

Thanks for the recommendation for the JJC. I'll look into them. This has also given me an idea for the project... I will pick up one of these JJC's and reverse engineer it. I see two outcomes:

• The circuit design is minimal and was built with low cost as the priority in which case I can improve it and create my own safer and robust alternative for much less $$$.
• It really is a complex design in which case I'll just pick up 3 more of the $50 units and continue in my AA-hell or create a simple way to down step the voltage from an SLA battery and use that to power the JJC.

If the former is the case and I am messing with high voltages I will respect your wishes and publish the details on a forum with less overzealous moderation.

I really am liking the second option though. That would allow me to switch from 8 AAs to the SLA depending on my needs at the time.

Art Scott

Why not go to the Quantum Instruments site find the proper battery and cable, then buy used off ebay and rebuild the battery (if needed - my only real requirement is that the battery come with its working charger).....I did this when using Vivatar 285HV's, Sunpak 622 and now my Nikon SB900's ... all I have had to change was my cable to go from one flash to another ... ... ... this has saved me tons of money ... ... there is a local company called All Pak Battery that have used for years now to rebuild my batteries (around $25) ... ... I get good recharge with the Quantum QB-1+'s that I have been using ... ...

Crewd

Art Scott wrote: »

Why not go to the Quantum Instruments site find the proper battery and cable, then buy used off ebay and rebuild the battery (if needed - my only real requirement is that the battery come with its working charger).....I did this when using Vivatar 285HV's, Sunpak 622 and now my Nikon SB900's ... all I have had to change was my cable to go from one flash to another ... ... ... this has saved me tons of money ... ... there is a local company called All Pak Battery that have used for years now to rebuild my batteries (around $25) ... ... I get good recharge with the Quantum QB-1+'s that I have been using ... ...

Great idea. Checking into that now.

ziggy53

Crewd wrote: »

T... overzealous moderation. ...

No true. Frivolous lawsuits are all the rage. (Texas is not one of those states which promotes frivolous lawsuits through successful litigation, however. )

http://listverse.com/2009/01/28/top-10-bizarre-or-frivolous-lawsuits/

I will never willingly promote anything on DGin which has the potential for serious injury or death. The construction or deconstruction of a high-voltage power supply is nothing for amateurs to mess with.

Crewd

Art:
Looks like even for the used ones it'll be about $250 - 300 for each Quantum set up.


All:
I picked up a Pixel brand battery pack today and it appears to be working very well. I opened it up to find a moderately simple design. It's made to run on 2 sets of 4 AAs totaling 6 volts each. So the circuit board is basically mirrored for each of the groups of batteries. It might be as simple as attaching the battery such that half of it's 12 volts runs through each path with some kind of current limiting construct.

JimKarczewski

You can get dual charging circuit battery packs from China for $65. Holds 8 batteries, 4 for each circuit and I can shoot a complete basketball game without running out of juice (flash set to 1/4 power at 50mm). Check into the PiXeL brand as that's what I used all last year on 4 580II's shooting sports.

JimKarczewski

http://www.amazon.com/Pixel-TD-381-battery-Speedlites-extremely/dp/B0049JO71G

B&H Carried the same pack, but under a different name, which I can't find at the moment...

RevLinePhoto

In all seriousness the use of 8AA batteries is still a money waisted I would sugjest ( on a safe note working with a professional) take that pack to your local hobby rc shop and have them look at how it is wired.

8AA wired two sets of four wired in series and those two sets paralel = 6volts DC 1600Mah
or 8AA wired one group of 8AA in series = 12volt DC 800Mah

The constant voltage output of even the best rechargable AA is nothing compare to a good LiPo (lithium polimer) battery constaintly used in current day RC cars and aircraft.

A good RC battery can get upto 4800Mah giving you three times the shooting with a more stable voltage compared to AA which will loose voltage as is depletes.

Of coarse have a Professional install these items but it should easily remain safe it is a very proven battery technology thanks to the RC hobby world.

Crewd

I love that idea. Thanks Rev!

ian408

I'd second the RC resource. Tower Hobbies is one resource. It's where I've purchased smaller LiPro batteries in the past.

Oh yeah. Depending on the battery technology, you might need a special charger. If so, don't forget to get that-but a word of warning, they can be expensive.