Mentoring

IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
edited October 24, 2012 in Sports
I have been mentoring an aspiring Mom-with-a-Camera (MWAC) who wants to improve her sports shooting. She's gone from handholding a D90 with a 70-300 to a D7000 with a Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VRII on a monopod. We've spent time with her settings and she's getting there. I caught her at a game the other night under high school lights.

i-kD7xzHr-XL.jpg
John :
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.

Comments

  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    The only problem I see is that she's "watching the game with her eyes", and not through the camera. Good on you for mentoring. I do this also sometimes and it's fun and rewarding.
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    As I've told her, you have to decide whether you're a spectator/fan/parent or a photographer. You can't be both. Her daughter's on the team, and she quite often gets caught up in the game. Her answer is usually something like, "Heck, John. I know you'll get the shot anyway." :D
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • mike_kmike_k Registered Users Posts: 153 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    One thing you might want to mention to her is that it's not good form to sit in the middle of the field to take photos...:D
  • adbsgicomadbsgicom Registered Users Posts: 3,615 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    Nice you to be helping her along. One question, why the monopod on the 70-200? Just to help her not fatigue? I found that using my mono with that one wasn't worth it since the angles changed too fast when you were in the range of that lens.
    - Andrew

    Who is wise? He who learns from everyone.
    My SmugMug Site
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    adbsgicom wrote: »
    Nice you to be helping her along. One question, why the monopod on the 70-200? Just to help her not fatigue? I found that using my mono with that one wasn't worth it since the angles changed too fast when you were in the range of that lens.

    Yeah, Andrew. She's kinda tiny, and the 70-200 IS a beast. I'm just used to using the monopod with the 300 f/2.8. My advice to her was to turn the VR off on the 70-200. Doesn't really help with sports IMO.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    mike_k wrote: »
    One thing you might want to mention to her is that it's not good form to sit in the middle of the field to take photos...:D

    Hey, if you can get away with it . . . rolleyes1.gif
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    Yeah, Andrew. She's kinda tiny, and the 70-200 IS a beast. I'm just used to using the monopod with the 300 f/2.8. My advice to her was to turn the VR off on the 70-200. Doesn't really help with sports IMO.

    Would another reason be that she is using a FX lens on DX camera giving it an effective focal length of 105 to 300mm, and therefore more susceptible to handheld blur?

    Phil
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    The only problem I see is that she's "watching the game with her eyes", and not through the camera. Good on you for mentoring. I do this also sometimes and it's fun and rewarding.

    I'm not sure what she's looking at in this shot, but I routinely watch the field with my eyes. In most sports, getting the shot means anticipating where the action is going to be; and this in turn means looking out over the field to see where players not in the immediate action are going and what they are doing. Heck, if someone took a few shots of me shooting a pro soccer game, they'd likely catch me looking away from the action towards the other end of the field. This is because a defender is about to pass it downfield and I want to see what the offense is getting ready to do.

    Then again, she does look like she's just watching the action instead of shooting it.rolleyes1.gif

    But good for you that you got her into the proper position (low), and shooting with a decent piece of equipment! There's a parent at my kids' high school who sometimes comes out to shoot games. She stands full height and shoots with short glass. Then she posts a few shots on the school's Facebook page, along with a link to her 'professional' photography website. She's looking for business, but not doing a very good job of advertising. Her shots are really bad, and frequently have significant motion blur. (I haven't tried to mentor her...)
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    Would another reason be that she is using a FX lens on DX camera giving it an effective focal length of 105 to 300mm, and therefore more susceptible to handheld blur?

    Phil

    Fer sure.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    jhefti wrote: »
    Then again, she does look like she's just watching the action instead of shooting it.rolleyes1.gif

    Trust me on this one . . . mwink.gif
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    Trust me on this one . . . mwink.gif

    Ah, well, she is learning...at least you got a nice shot of the action and her in the background!
  • castnerrmcastnerrm Registered Users Posts: 24 Big grins
    edited October 21, 2012
    John, I have ben doing that more and more lately. Many MWAC and DWAC's out there now doing HS sports. I have been giving advice on hardware/software as well as composure to focus settings. One mom I have been working with is doing better as well but when she chipms and sees some bad pics she gets nervous and goes back to 'sports mode'. Sigh ......
  • jimqjrjimqjr Registered Users Posts: 250 Major grins
    edited October 22, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    Fer sure.

    I see this comment a lot cropped sensor extending the focal range of a camera or rather the lens. Can someone explain how?
    Was this something that got quoted and then misapplied? Your not adding a range extender which is a piece of glass your adding a camera which has a mirror.
    A crop sensor is only a cropped view. Or am I wrong?
  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited October 22, 2012
    jimqjr wrote: »
    A crop sensor is only a cropped view. Or am I wrong?

    Both right and wrong. Let me explain...

    Let's assume for a moment that I have say a 300mm lens attached to an full frame sensor that is say 12 megapixels. I point that lens at my subject down the field, and that subject takes up say 1/2 of the frame. I am putting maybe 6 megapixels of the available 12 onto my actual subject. Let's then say I add a 1.4x extender. Now that subject takes up most of my frame, and I am putting maybe 10 megapixels of the available 12 onto my subject. But I've lost 1 stop of light with the extender. With me so far?

    Ok, now in the case of a crop sensor, also at 12 megapixels, the subject is already taking up most of my frame with that same lens. And I have not had to lose a stop to make that happen. The benefit of the crop sensor, assuming it has the same megapixels, is that it allows you to put more megapixels on the same subject at the same distance. Yes, it is only narrowing the field of view, but it is giving you that narrower field of view spread over the entire sensor area. On a full frame sensor, you would either need to add an extender, or crop in post. Both of which are less than ideal.

    This argument doesn't really hold if you have the ability to fill the frame with your available glass on the full frame sensor. The full frame camera will likely have advantages there all else being equal. HOWEVER, if that is the case, a cropped sensor would let you do it with a smaller, lighter lens. And that is the other major advantage.

    Make sense?
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited October 22, 2012
    castnerrm wrote: »
    John, I have ben doing that more and more lately. Many MWAC and DWAC's out there now doing HS sports. I have been giving advice on hardware/software as well as composure to focus settings. One mom I have been working with is doing better as well but when she chipms and sees some bad pics she gets nervous and goes back to 'sports mode'. Sigh ......

    Well, at least she doesn't just ask what camera you use, then go out and buy one only to wonder why her shots don't look as good as yours. I get the 'what camera do you use?' question all the time. Someone even wanted to buy the lens I used to shoot a tennis match ( a 400/2.8) so that he could get shots of his kid in micro-soccer; at least, until I told him how much it cost!
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,939 moderator
    edited October 22, 2012
    mike_k wrote: »
    One thing you might want to mention to her is that it's not good form to sit in the middle of the field to take photos...:D

    There are generally rules about who's allowed on the field of play. At higher levels, it could include the sidelines as well. If the officials see it and want to make an issue of it, they could penalize the team for her presence on the field.

    I'd at least look at the rule book to be sure mwink.gif
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • David EvertsenDavid Evertsen Registered Users Posts: 524 Major grins
    edited October 23, 2012
    I am really happy that you are mentoring someone with a real camera and lens... When I see someone say they need to grab their camera they usually come back with their SmartPhone... DOH!!
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,939 moderator
    edited October 23, 2012
    I am really happy that you are mentoring someone with a real camera and lens... When I see someone say they need to grab their camera they usually come back with their SmartPhone... DOH!!

    That's OK.

    I was at an event and it was clear (to me) that this lady wanted a picture in a kind of crappy lighting situation. I spent two minutes taking a picture of she and her husband then showed her how I overcame the problem. The smile on her face made it all worth it.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 23, 2012
    ian408 wrote: »
    There are generally rules about who's allowed on the field of play. At higher levels, it could include the sidelines as well. If the officials see it and want to make an issue of it, they could penalize the team for her presence on the field.

    I'd at least look at the rule book to be sure mwink.gif

    OH, FOR Pete's sake folks. She's NOT on the field. She's 7 yards behind the end line. I was up the sideline with the 300mm lens, shooting back toward the end line. Virginia High School League does have rules, and we are careful to abide by them. I doesn't hurt that most of the field hockey and soccer refs know me.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,939 moderator
    edited October 23, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    OH, FOR Pete's sake folks. She's NOT on the field. She's 7 yards behind the end line. I was up the sideline with the 300mm lens, shooting back toward the end line. Virginia High School League does have rules, and we are careful to abide by them. I doesn't hurt that most of the field hockey and soccer refs know me.

    No need to get your panties in a twist. My advice was to check for the reason I cited.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 23, 2012
    My panties weren't in a twist, but my knickers were a bit knotted.:D
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • mike_kmike_k Registered Users Posts: 153 Major grins
    edited October 23, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    OH, FOR Pete's sake folks. She's NOT on the field. She's 7 yards behind the end line. I was up the sideline with the 300mm lens, shooting back toward the end line. Virginia High School League does have rules, and we are careful to abide by them. I doesn't hurt that most of the field hockey and soccer refs know me.

    I hope you know my post was in jest... :D
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited October 24, 2012
    Ya know, with these multipurpose fields--simultaneously marked for soccer, football, lax, field hockey, and sometimes even baseball--it's damn near impossible to tell where the sidelines are!
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 24, 2012
    Icebear wrote: »
    Hey, if you can get away with it . . . rolleyes1.gif

    Yeah, Mike. I knew you were funnin' mwink.gif
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited October 24, 2012
    jhefti wrote: »
    Ya know, with these multipurpose fields--simultaneously marked for soccer, football, lax, field hockey, and sometimes even baseball--it's damn near impossible to tell where the sidelines are!

    So true. Just the other night a ref actually blew the whistle when a ball went over a line, only to realize the line was in play for the game. The team awarded the ball was classy enough to pass it back downfield to the other team.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
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