How a camera or lens may be damaged or destroyed in extreme cold.
Every year this comes up, and every year I say, you guys are nuts.
I don't do anything special, I take the camera and lens, sometimes in a camera bag, sometimes not, from my warm house to my car, and drive to where I'm shooting.
I shoot in sub zero temps for hours, put the camera back into the car, drive home, bring camera, with or without bag into the house.
So far, no problems.
YMMV.
Question: Has anyone that commented in this thread ever ruined a camera or lens by using it in the cold?
I know I haven't.
With 6 months of winter in Minnesota, I've had lots of opportunities to.
We're getting quite a bit away from the original poster's question. If this line of questions persists I'll break it into a new thread.
While I have not suffered permanent damage from extreme cold, I have experienced cold weather lockup, where either a lens or a camera ceased to function to the point of that piece being no longer usable. (In each case the equipment worked fine later and after it had warmed.)
The newer digital SLRs have a surprising amount of plastic inside, and the plastic often serves a structural function. While extreme cold alone doesn't mean a high rate of failure, the combination of plastic structure plus cold temperatures plus "any" sort of impact "can" result in broken parts. The contribution to damage related to cold temperatures is a result of most plastics, even structural plastics, increased "brittleness" in the cold. (In engineering terms this is a cold induced reduction in "molecular mobility", creating increased stress fractures with an increased rate of total structural failure.)
Below are a few examples of these failures, and I believe that most were in moderate temperatures, but with fairly traumatic impact. The point is that cold temperatures means a greater likelihood of similar failures with less impact and less cause.
http://lowryplace.blogspot.com/2012/10/it-was-doozy.html
http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00GOkQ
http://flic.kr/p/8V8ZoD
The following image "was" a result of failure due to extreme cold (according to the author):
http://www.redbubble.com/people/cewing/works/691982-inside-the-life-of-a-broken-lens
Bottom line: Yes, there is more risk to photographic equipment in extreme cold. Consumer and prosumer equipment is more likely to be damaged through relatively little impact.
Professional grade photographic is less likely to be damaged by the same level of impact due to a greater shear strength design (mostly because of a metal chassis).
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Comments
but you're right all that plastic.... food for thought...
Jase // www.stonesque.com
The Nikon D7000 may be a magnesium chassis, but I can't find an exploded view of the body components to see if the lens mount is directly attached or not. There may still be a plastic frame behind the lens mount and before the chassis.
http://reviews.photographyreview.com/nikon-d7000-dslr-category-crusher
If this review is accurately showing the correct images for the D7000, there is indeed a plastic frame between the metal chassis and metal lens mount.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
You're right we're off subject.
You're examples have nothing to do with cold weather and fogging up.
The first photo the camera was on a tripod and as the owner put it, Took a swan dive off of it on to the wood floor, at a baby shower.
The second, dropped 5 feet to the ground, at a college softball game.
How does that have anything to do with using a camera in cold weather and having a problem with it fogging up?
Here is a fact: I have had my Canon 300f2.8 with a tc on it, attached to a few different cameras, including an XSi and a T3i, and have used this combo in sub zero temps many times.
Not once have I sheared off (as the owner put it for the 5D photo) the lens mount.
As you say, the plastic on a camera may become a bit less forgiving in extreme temps, but if you don't
throw it on the ground you'll probably be OK.
As for the last pic, the owner said it gave the camera an error message, he warmed it up and it worked fine, then the next day when he tried to use it, it looked like this.
I'm guessing something happened between the 2 times this person had it on the camera.
Cmon Ziggy, find some better examples.
PS, I think there's quite a bit of plastic on my car, I better not drive it in the winter.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
Dave, your question was:
I am trying to educate you on how a camera may be damaged in extreme cold, per your question.
Your question was not specific to fogging issues. I qualified my comments, and now I've bolded the important points:
I am much more cautious in that I would advise folks not to even bump the camera/lens against anything at all in extreme cold. The plastic frame in many dSLRs is just not designed for extreme cold and you are "much" more likely to experience failure of the part. If you must use your camera in extreme cold, treat it like it was made completely of glass, and knowing that some of that construction is also rather inadequate for proper support in those conditions of extreme cold.
Repeated exposure to extreme cold may also develop hidden fractures which will not be apparent until some time in the future, when you experience catastrophic failure of the part. (Yes, that really can happen.)
Yep, I'm guessing extreme cold played a part in the failure. The author even stated, "... the temps got REAL cold!! , i had her in her backpack with other lens and camera, and i guess she just got too cold
I have lots of personal stories about plastic in cars failing in extreme cold, but if you want to talk about those, please start a new thread in "The Big Picture" forum, since it has nothing to do with photography.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Ziggy's point is that being careful could in fact prolong the life of your camera. Dave's point is that cameras can take a lot more abuse than we think. Sounds like two perfectly good statements that should have no problem co-existing.
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
In Ziggy's response, he mentioned cold 9 times, then gives proof by posting photo's of damage to cameras because they fell 5 feet to the floor at (more than likely) room temp.
This is at least misleading, I don't care what qualifier you put with it.
Ziggy, you have a wealth of knowledge about cameras, way more than me.
But this is just disappointing.
Fear tactics are just wrong.
Just for the record, you answered my question about having cold weather ruining one of your cameras or a lens was NO.
You said "While I have not suffered permanent damage from extreme cold, I have experienced cold weather lockup, where either a lens or a camera ceased to function to the point of that piece being no longer usable."
If you would have expanded on this, maybe say how many times this happened, for how long a period it lasted, was it a camera or lens, it could have been useful.
But everything else you added had nothing to do with my question, or the OP's question about fogging up. (both about dealing with cold weather)
If you wish to educate people about a question they asked, please stick to the subject.
In this case, the subject had to do with cold weather, not what damage can happen if I drop my camera to the hard wood floor from shoulder height at room temp.
Jeez.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
Dave, you're right. When you distort what I say it "is" misleading.
Good luck with your equipment.
To everyone else, those broken plastic parts I show in the images above really do represent what can happen in extreme cold with very little trauma to your equipment. (I never said that those particular images are from cold temperatures, despite Dave's comments.)
I still only recommend using equipment designed for the purpose, which is pretty much the single digit Canon and Nikon professional bodies, and lenses with a metal chassis, if you really need to use a dSLR in extreme cold.
If you don't need to use a dSLR, the ruggedized digital P&S cameras do a pretty decent job in good light, and they're designed for a much wider climate range than most dSLRs and lenses.
Over and out.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Thanks for all your help and technical explanations here. I for one appreciate them.
Sam
Given how warm MN has been this year and last this might not be an issue for the future....
But assuming it is, I've never heard of a camera being damaged by the cold.
Batteries die, LCD's work slowly, but that's about it. We've both spent enoug time in really cold temps to give that hypothesis a good shake down.
I have seen condensation inside a lens from a person who went quickly from cold to warm and humid, but that was just forgetfulness. I could imagine condensation damaging a circuit board if it was powered up, but I've never seen that.
Oh, and Hi Dave.
Steve
www.finesart.com
This is (sort of) predictable ... to the extent that I start taking a backup out with me @ this time of yr.
After half an hour or so after getting home, it's fine - as it is for the rest of the yr.
Whilst I'm not 100% certain, I consider it's probably related to a time when it thought it was a sub
IIrc, the majority of cam bodies are rated at 0 - 40c ... so working below zero is a bonus
pp
Flickr
I know that people have a good sized investment in their camera gear, but sometimes I think it gets babied to much.
I must be the lucky one, but even my batteries seem to hold a good charge in the cold.
One morning I went to Monticello, shot about 500 pics, then drove to the ski jump, about an hour away,
and took another 600 pics there with a 5DMKII with a battery grip. After 1100 shots in temps in the 20's,
I still had 50% left on the charge.
I think for non pro cameras, the battery grip really saves the juice in the cold.
At least thats been my experience.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.