How do you properly clean your circular polarizer filter?

David_S85

...without damaging them? Got a Hoya Pro 1 77mm MC circular polarizer. It isn't cheap, but it needs some cleaning. Supposedly, cleaning fluid is bad to use (info from Hoya), a lens pen will hurt the coatings (says the Lens Pen literature), and even a micro fiber cloth might scratch the coatings, if I am to believe the horror stories on forums. Not too comforting. So that leaves what method(s)? :dunno

How do you clean your expensive circular polarizers?

ziggy53

Best to use the HOYA cleaning instructions:

http://www.hoyafilter.com/support/tips-techniques/how-to-clean-filters/

I believe that a primary concern is to avoid getting any liquid, including cleaning fluid, inside the filter, which can damage or destroy the filter. As long as you don't saturate the microfiber cloth or lens cleaning tissue, you should be OK.

Start by blowing any surface dirt/dust away from the filter. A bulb blower or properly used "Dust Pro" (or similar "canned" blower) is suitable. Follow with a static brush to remove particulates the previous blower missed. Next use breath condensate and clean lens cleaning tissues in circular strokes, starting at the center and moving out, minimal pressure. Progress to lens cleaning tissue or clean micro-fiber cloth, with minimal lens cleaning fluid and little pressure. Repeat as many times as necessary. Finish with clean and dry lens cleaning tissue and breath condensate.

Practice first on a cheap filter, or at least a filter which would be difficult to harm (like a UV or protective filter). If you experience any pooling of the cleaning fluid, you're using too much fluid to be safe with the polarizer. If you must use the pre-moistened lens cleaning cloths, be sure to allow the fluid on the cloth to partially evaporate to a safe level first.

Proper technique should allow minimal pressure coupled with many passes of fresh cleaning surfaces and fresh cleaning fluid.

Have some dry lens cleaning tissue available so that if you experience any obvious liquid at the edges of the polarizing filter you can absorb it quickly before it infiltrates the filter.

All of the above is at your own risk. Since I cannot control anyone else's procedures and techniques, I am not responsible for any damages which might arise.

pathfinder

WHile Ziggy is completely correct in his recommendations David, for years I have cleaned my B&W circular polarizers with lens cleaning solution - either Zeiss or Ray VU from Singh-Ray with a micro fibre cloth in the same manner as I clean my camera lens frontal elements. Kevin is right, you want to use minimal solution so not to risk delaminating your filter, but I think with responsible technique that risk is pretty small. DO not submerge the filter of course.

Micro fibre cloths with a light spray of lens cleaning solution on the cloth, are what I use for all my lenses, even my plastic ones in my glasses, and glasses are far more easily damaged than modern camera lens coatings. Use a lens brush for any grit first of course. I use the brush portion of a lens pen, but have far less than total trust of the cleaning pad, I suspect it is potentially more dangerous than a clean micro fibre cloth. One can exert more pressure with the pad of a lens pen than a soft micro fibre cloth, and the pad is far thinner than a nice plush soft micro fibre cloth. Just my opinion, of course.

I am not aware that Hoya filters are uniquely more easily damaged than B&W, I actually have several Hoya NDs that I treat the same way as all my other filters and lenses. Typically, polarizing filters were a composite construction of plastic polarizing filter between two glass support elements and you did not want them to get wet at their edges or one risked water bubbles as the filter delaminated. Yet the spectacle industry has sold polarizing sunglasses with composite lenses that were submerged in running faucets by consumers, I am certain.

Reading Hoya's preference for lens cleaning paper over micro fibre cloths, I suspect they are concerned about the re-use of dirty microfibre cloths, whereas with lens paper, they are certain than the lens paper does not contain grit, but then there are folks out there who clean their lenses with their dirty t shirt too, or their tie, neither which I recommend. But new clean micro fibre cloths do not harm plastic spectacle lenses, nor any modern lens coating that I am aware of.

I have used only new, clean, micro fibre cloths for over a decade without incident. I used to cringe cleaning Zeiss microscope lenses with lenspaper, it felt like I was using sand paper to polish a front surface mirror.

kurtw

A point above that merits highlighting: dampen the cloth/tissues lightly. Don't apply liquid solution directly to the glass itself.

David_S85

Thanks, guys. I heard that Sunglass Hut has a fairly inexpensive set of microfiber cloths. I've always thought that breath and something like that was safer than lens cleaning tissues, which seem to have a coarseness to them.

kurtw

FWIW:
http://fstoppers.com/nikon-do-not-breathe-lens

My routine is:
Blower
If still dirty, brush
If still dirty, lens tissues wetted with solution

ziggy53

kurtw wrote: »

FWIW:
http://fstoppers.com/nikon-do-not-breathe-lens

My routine is:
Blower
If still dirty, brush
If still dirty, lens tissues wetted with solution

Nikon has since removed the caution about breathing on lenses:

http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/539/~/how-do-i-clean-the-camera-lens?

Analysis of human breath indicates that, if anything, the condensate on a lens should be very slightly alkaline:

http://medicineask.com/medicine/medicine-72488.html

kurtw

Haha nice catch ziggy. Every blogger spammed the warning but I never saw anyone post the retraction

That's a good concise article.

David_S85

Anyone ever use anhydrous (or absolute) methyl alcohol as a cleaning solution for filters/lenses?

ziggy53

David_S85 wrote: »

Anyone ever use anhydrous (or absolute) methyl alcohol as a cleaning solution for filters/lenses?

Ken uses it:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/cleaning.htm

Just be careful. I believe that it can strip some types of paint, and your hands will dry out handling it (or any purified alcohol.)

David_S85

ziggy53 wrote: »

Ken uses it:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/cleaning.htm

Just be careful. I believe that it can strip some types of paint, and your hands will dry out handling it (or any purified alcohol.)

Ziggy, I somehow knew you'd come up with a link like that. Thanks! Also looks as if the stuff can kill you on contact. :yikes

cmason

Eclipse (copperhill) is methanol, though its likely not anhydrous. Its tested for optic systems, so I see no need to get something different (or $50) because high school chemistry class leads you to believe it is better.

Anhydrous methanol is simply methanol that has undergone additional treatment to remove traces of water. This a small difference in water: I mean its 99.8% methanol, vs say 98%. In chemistry, water is very unhelpful when using solvents, and tends to 'clog' things up like columns and filters, so removing water can be very important, where nanograms are critical.

Methanol is very hygroscopic, which means that it will absorb water from the air. This means that Ken's bottle of methanol, which is several years old, is no longer anhydrous, but as usual, he tends to believe what he wants. If you truly want to keep your methanol anhydrous, you need to be a bit more rigorous in your storage: certainly a better container, and likely a dry, nitrogen environment (if you are really picky). I suspect that for our use, there is no difference between anhydrous, or other grades of methanol, and more importantly, we do not have the ability to maintain this difference.

Anhydrous methanol is not 'stronger' or more toxic per se, just has less water. (at these amounts of water, it does not make a significant difference in concentration of methanol) "Regular" methanol is toxic as well. Many race car series use methanol, and just like gasoline or diesel, you try to keep it off your skin and avoid breathing it. Sterno is methanol too, but mixed with other stuff to make it gel and to make it taste bad to keep folks from eating it. Its a good idea to use latex or other similar gloves when using it to clean your sensor or lenses, to help avoid absorbing it in the skin, but mostly to keep from getting greasy fingers on the glass. Don't worry, a few drops on a Pec-pad touching your finger won't kill you or harm you. Your skin can't absorb that much that quickly, but you don't want to bathe in it either. Drinking it is a really bad idea.

I use Eclipse and Pec-Pads for sensor cleaning (copperhill method), and I also use them for lens cleaning as well, mostly because I will never use it all up cleaning my sensor. Its also a bit easier to purchase than getting from a chemical supply house.

(in a previous life, I was an organic chemist, working in drug discovery)

David_S85

I wimped out and bought a little Zeiss kit that includes a couple micro fiber cloths and some packaged wipes. Also some lens pens and a "Dewitt brush" for dust on the outside of the camera bodies, etc.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=ZELCC&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=LENDSLRK1&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=VIDB&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

David_S85

FYI, everyone... The Zeiss lens wipes seem to instantly destroy a Hoya HMC NDX400 filter. I don't know how I'm ever going to get the gummy mess it made off the filter surface, but I'll report back in some weeks when I calm down figure it out. Some type of very bad reaction. I have no idea what chemicals Zeiss puts in those things. Don't buy them.

pathfinder

I think the Zeiss pre wetted lens tissues are wetted with ethyl alcohol, David. FWIW , I have added isopropyl alcohol to my lens cleaning solutions for years. Helps remove any oily sheen.

It should say on the packaging, I would think.

David_S85

Thanks. Lots of breath and new microfiber cloths took most of the greasy streaks away from the filter, but about 20% still remain. I am bummed.

Contents: less than 5% anionic tenside, fragrances. Nothing stated about the other unknown 95%.

Looked that up, and it is laundry detergent + "fragrances." No wonder it streaked the hell out of the filter. How in the world can Zeiss sell this stuff?

In the production of anionic tenside-containing washing and cleaning agents by granulation in a mixer into which a solid is inserted, undesired reaction heat, discoloration and softening of the mixture can occur if the solid is alkaline and an anionic tenside in acive form is added thereto. These drawbacks can be prevented by (a) the separate production of an anionic tenside-containing mixture which will flow and can be pumped at down to at least 20 °C by the partial to complete neutralisation of one or more anionic tensides in their acid form with a basically acting inorganic or organic neutralising agent, (b) adding this anionic tenside-containing mixture to a solid or mixture of solids inserted in a mixer and (c) granulating the components to form a pourable granulate. With full neutralisation in step (a), an organic neutralising medium is added, with partial neutralisation in step (a), an inorganic or organic neutralising medium is added and the solid added in step (b) is, in the case of partial neutralisation in step (a), a basically acting solid or the solid mixture in step (b) contains one or more basically acting solids and the basically acting solid or solids are present at least in such quantities as to ensure the complete neutralisation of the anionic tensides in their acid form.

I am going to try to get B&H to credit me back so I can throw this crap out. I don't want it destroying any more of my equipment. I can't believe I didn't read the 0.5 point type on the package before I opened one up.

EDIT: I tried to leave a (sour) review on B&H for the product and it said I need a Facebook account? Huh?

David_S85

B&H took back the Zeiss kit with no problems, in their customary way. I also learned that B&H does not post product reviews on their site unless one already has a Facebook account, which is very odd.