House Select Hockey

divmedic4

Went to the rink to practice some during an Under18 House Select League game. One of the parents asked me to focus on their child and they would buy shots after processing. This is my first set using LR4 and a different color correction technique I read about. I would appreciate feedback on the shots, processing and if you would be happy with these as the parent. Thanks!

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20130120-024 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

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20130120-084 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

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20130120-085 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

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20130120-092 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

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20130120-121 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

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20130120-124 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

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20130120-126 by Divmedic4, on Flickr

johng

Tom - the colors are good and framing is pretty good in these.
Most appear soft though. In the first image it's pretty easy to tell the shot is back focused - the official is sharper than the players. Without the exif it's tough to tell if the shutter speed was a tad too slow or if it's bad focus or maybe due to shooting through marked up plexiglass.

Additionally - you're missing the puck in a number of shots. And, the action isn't quite peak.

Finally - faces - they're not very clear. Parents love faces.
I think a lot of parents would be happy to TAKE shots like these. And I think a lot of parents would be happy to be GIVEN shots like these. But, if you want to sell shots to parents you need to get sharper results, get the puck, get the faces and get a bit more peak action (and/or great FACES - those sell. Moms love faces).

So, you're off to a good start and I think your post processing is good. Now, the tough part

divmedic4

Johng, thank you for the honest, detailed response. You hit what I was/am feeling about just giving these shots to the parent because I feel I can do better. If you have the time and are willing, I would appreciate any tips based on the settings info below.

Settings used were shutter of 1/640 for all except the first which was 1/800, ISO 1250, 70-200 @ 2.8 with center point extended in AI Servo.

All shots are through the glass trying to place and hold center point on face of the target player while tracking/zooming as necessary using back-button focus method. I did notice how much focus was off in some of them which was frustrating because I thought I had moved past that issue shooting the college team. I also noticed the missing puck a lot in these and think I was trying to maintain focus on face so much that I wasn't seeing the whole scene I wanted.

johng

Tom - I don't shoot hockey, so I can't comment on how shooting through the glass will affect things. What does concern me is you saying the center point is on the face of the subject. That means in most cases you're doing a fairly hefty crop to get these final framings. I suggest trying a focus point higher up in the camera so your framing is closer to final. That should help focus and sharpness - of course because you'll be framing much tighter in-camera it makes it more difficult to get the subject in the frame and determine timing. But that's a big part of shooting quality low-light sports. Otherwise, 1/800 is plenty fast enough to prevent the type of blur I'm seeing in the torso/head. So, that's not the issue we're seeing here.

divmedic4

Johng, the focus point adjust is so obvious I probably never would have thought of it. I didn't really crop these too much but I do catch myself dragging the focal length a lot to try to keep the framing with center point. I am going to give this a try Wednesday evening with the peewee league games.

jmphotocraft

Impossible to say whether the parents would be happy with them because we don't know their expectations. If they just wanted something better than their iPhone, you got that. However if they were expecting pro photos, i think you know you didn't. I think you'll do much better if you get out from behind the glass. With a big lens, and if you ask nicely, I think most coaches would oblige having you in the bench area. Here's some hockey I shot from the bench:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=221582

divmedic4

Jack, thank you for also for the honest, direct feedback. You hit the nail on the head that I know I didn't hit my expectations with these. I really like the look of yours from the bench area. That is another area I need to improve upon...not being intimidated to ask for access to get better shots, especially at the house games.

aktse

I think you did a decent job, but like johng and jmphotocraft, the images are soft, the framing could use some work and the color temperature is moving, but that might be how the light cycles. They gave great advice... follow it.

If you look at image #1, the ref's face is sharper than the skater. Are you tracking when you're focusing? Are you bursting or taking a single shot? do you let it AF lock?

ISO 1250? You must get some really amazing light in there because I rarely have found a hockey rink that bright, unless it's a pro rink.

I just checked your EXIF. Auto WB? Are you changing the WB in post? Are you setting the WB via the ice? If so, you're drifting or your monitor isn't calibrated.

I know the suggestion is for your to shoot on the bench, but you must be aware that the pucks fly over the benches and your attention seems to be more focused on following the player with the center point than to paying attention to the actual action (e.g. not seeing the puck in the frame, etc). Getting hit with a flying puck can be very dangerous.

I don't know if the parents will like the images, but I can tell you that being better than an iphone won't cut it anymore. I spent a few hours this weekend at a hockey tournament with teams from the US and Canada and I saw about two dozen 70-200s on various pro-sumer bodies in addition to the official tournament photographers that sells on site.

I do shoot through glass:
1) rinks with super duper ugly lights One of the rinks was inside a smokey casino
2) rink with good light (HP pavilion) if you're shooting at 1250, 1/800, you have really good light. Amazing light.

I just try to find a clean piece and shoot as perpendicular as possible.

jmp2204

The previous posters are people whom I have followed on here and have solid advice . I am a Novice sports shooter, but I am also a hockey parent who sees photographers selling at rinks just about every weekend. Your shots here are saleable to parents in comparison to what I have observed at tournaments in Canada(some are better than others). But you can do better , i clicked to see your exif and proceeded to look at your other shots on flickr.Your college shots are better for sure, but i suspect you had better lighting.through glass sucks , no two ways about it .I get shots from the bench and shoot from the ends (ends offer a better angle ).See if the coach will let you stay at one end of the bench(houseleague select usually has a little more relaxed rules) but glass is frustrating .However parents are not photographers and are more easily impressed (try to get eyes, stick flex , emotion and the puck) .Take the previous advice and follow the team to the best to shoot in rink , you'll find better results

divmedic4

Aktse, I usually do the out of focus shot of the ice before it is resurfaced to set WB in post. This time, I actually didn't touch WB at all just letting it correct with the overall color correction I tried. I am very lucky with the lighting in this place. They have lots of lights, turn them to full power and the ceiling is the silver side insulation so it acts like a big reflector.

Jmp2204, thank you for the comments on the other shots on Flickr and these. All are shot at the same rink so I was stumped for a bit. After seeing some of the suggestion and looking back, I think I did find one possible issue with the softness and missed focus. Normally, I turn the stabilization off on the lens when shooting hockey and didn't this time. Playing around a little at home, when trying to track the dogs running and shoot the same way, all the images look soft with the IS on so I am putting some of the problem there.

jmp2204

Is that the hurricanes practice rink?

divmedic4

Jmp2204, this is actually just a small community skating rink. I am about 2 hours from Raleigh and the Canes haven't expanded their footprint here as well as the have north and west of Raleigh. It is funny because the parent and I were actually talking about wishing the Canes focused a little more here while I was shooting these.

Bryce Wilson

I can't wrap my head around taking the optics of a 2400.00 lens or even a 500.00 dollar lens and degrading it by shooting through the glass.

I would imagine at house level, most coaches would let you shoot from the bench if you talked to them. You do have to have a bit of hockey knowledge so you don't interfere with line changes and the door. And as mentioned, you do have to keep your wits about you so you don't get hit with a puck, or even worse, your lens getting hit with a puck.

Another option for you. At Junior level and below, I have yet to be in a barn that a fiver slipped to the Zamboni driver didn't get me a tall step ladder that I could use to shoot above the glass in one of the corners. Even in the barns that have netting you can fit your lens between the glass and netting.

Give it a shot, I think you'll like it.

divmedic4

Bryce, I understand what you are saying about the glass degrading. I tried your suggestions of talking to the coach and the ice team today but no dice. Coach said that if he let me there, every parent with a camera would be on his back to be allowed there. I did get the number for the owner of the rink and I am going to try approaching getting better access that way.

Hungry

a different thought:
shoot through the glass - but get photos of action (that parents will want to buy). If you know hockey, you will know how the parents want to see their kids - but they can't because of the complexity of catching the action. And, a little softness because of the glass won't turn off the parents.

speaking of softness - I use single point focusing and try to keep it on my primary subject (the ref is in great focus in the first shot - but not the player). Yes, it is hard - another reason that most parents can't get acceptable images.

jmphotocraft

divmedic4 wrote: »

Bryce, I understand what you are saying about the glass degrading. I tried your suggestions of talking to the coach and the ice team today but no dice. Coach said that if he let me there, every parent with a camera would be on his back to be allowed there. I did get the number for the owner of the rink and I am going to try approaching getting better access that way.

The way I did it was to offer my services to a parent on the team that I know well, and have that parent poll the team for interest. Then I could say to the coach that I had been asked by several of the parents on the team to take professional action shots. This makes it sound like you are a pro providing a service, not just shooting for yourself, and that the coach will have to answer to several grumpy parents later if he denies you. It helps if you are holding your camera with 70-200/2.8 mounted when you ask!

Or if you think you need to be even more formal, you could email the coach in advance after you secure the interest of the parents. That way you could probably work with him and maybe even schedule some time before or after the game for a team shot and even individual portraits. All that takes is 15 minutes and a good hotshoe flash.

divmedic4

Jack, that sounds like a possibility. I gave these shots to the parent that asked for them and he was very happy with them. I will have to see if I can use him as an in with the other parents and then approach the coach again. Thank you for that tip!