Burning out the background

GoofBckt

I photograph equines a lot and for the most part, they are in a fenced area and so I would like to burn out the background. I'm struggling with making the outline of the horse or whatever subject, look normal or natural. I need suggestions on best techniques or brush settings to do this, especially in areas where there are flying strands of mane and tail. I've seen other equine photographers do this with amazing detail and it is not at all obvious that the background was burned out. Thank you. :scratch

Sam

GoofBckt wrote: »

I photograph equines a lot and for the most part, they are in a fenced area and so I would like to burn out the background. I'm struggling with making the outline of the horse or whatever subject, look normal or natural. I need suggestions on best techniques or brush settings to do this, especially in areas where there are flying strands of mane and tail. I've seen other equine photographers do this with amazing detail and it is not at all obvious that the background was burned out. Thank you.

Post an image with a link to the original size and let people play with it and provide instructions on how they achieved their results.

Also list the image processing software you own.

Sam

pathfinder

I think this question really goes to how do you create a mask, to select the horse from the background?

If you can create a good mask, altering the background is simply a matter of curves, or dodging and burning, or using blending modes to lighten, like Soft Light.

Sharp edges are the easiest parts to mask, but hair, and dust, can be more difficult, since they require some more effort to create a selection, whether done with the Quick Mask tool, the Quick Selections tool ( a favorite of mine ) , or even the old faithful, the Pen tool. Sometimes you have to start with a channel mask, and then paint in areas of lesser contrast with the Quick Mask tool on the mask itself.

Like Sam said, show us an image you are interested in with a link to a larger size image so folks can wrestle with it a bit.

Lightroom 4 will do the masking for you "automagically", but some of us do not think the masking is still as good as can be done in Photoshop by a skilled user. One can "SEE"" the mask in Lightroom by hitting the "O" key when using the Brush tool in LR, - the mask will appear pink, and hitting the "O" a second time removes the pink overlay. Holding down the option key while painting with the Brush tool in Lightroom, will erase areas of the mask not wanted to be affected. This tip can really help one more finely delineate the areas acted upon by the Brush tool in LR. I use this trick fairly often in LR when I do not want to go out to PS for a more finely wrought mask.

GoofBckt

Try this one. Here is one where I did burn out the background, but you can still see evidence in some places. Also, this was an easier one as there is really not a lot of mane flying:

This photo is one that I would love to correct and not have obvious "burn-out" spots showing in the mane, whiskers, etc.


I use Photoshop Elements 11. I love it and I really think it does everything I need it to do . . . maybe not? Thanks, gang.
Carrie

GoofBckt

Here's another shot that I love, but the separation between background and subject is baaaaad.

angevin1

GoofBckt wrote: »

I photograph equines a lot and for the most part, they are in a fenced area and so I would like to burn out the background. I'm struggling with making the outline of the horse or whatever subject, look normal or natural. I need suggestions on best techniques or brush settings to do this, especially in areas where there are flying strands of mane and tail. I've seen other equine photographers do this with amazing detail and it is not at all obvious that the background was burned out. Thank you.

Also do you mind posting a LINK to another persons work that you might like to emulate?

Sam

Please post a link to the original untouched image.

Sam

pathfinder

When I first read this thread, I interpreted "burned out" backgrounds, to be very white or light grey, not a total black, under exposed, background soup.

The trick to separate your horses from a totally black background is a bit of rim light, via a reflector or a speed light, that gives a nice bright edge before the blackness starts. This is done via lighting, not image editing. A pair of off camera flashes at about 45 degrees or so, behind the horse, should allow you to capture nice rim lighting at the edge of your horses image. Then the horse will stand out from the darkness behind it much more sharply and neatly.

angevin1

pathfinder wrote: »

When I first read this thread, I interpreted "burned out" backgrounds, to be very white or light grey, not a total black, under exposed, background soup.

The trick to separate your horses from a totally black background is a bit of rim light, via a reflector or a speed light, that gives a nice bright edge before the blackness starts. This is done via lighting, not image editing. A pair of off camera flashes at about 45 degrees or so, behind the horse, should allow you to capture nice rim lighting at the edge of your horses image. Then the horse will stand out from the darkness behind it much more sharply and neatly.

That all sounds well and good to better than I was imagining...from what little info given by the Op. Still curious though~

GoofBckt

Try this one from facebook. This would be a good example of what I'm trying to achieve:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=310265989080961&set=t.528877755&type=3&theater
(I hope it shows up)

angevin1 wrote: »

Also do you mind posting a LINK to another persons work that you might like to emulate?

GoofBckt

I understand what you're getting at, but I typically photograph horses in their natural habitat with lots of movement, so what you're suggesting is almost impossible. But thank you.

pathfinder wrote: »

When I first read this thread, I interpreted "burned out" backgrounds, to be very white or light grey, not a total black, under exposed, background soup.

The trick to separate your horses from a totally black background is a bit of rim light, via a reflector or a speed light, that gives a nice bright edge before the blackness starts. This is done via lighting, not image editing. A pair of off camera flashes at about 45 degrees or so, behind the horse, should allow you to capture nice rim lighting at the edge of your horses image. Then the horse will stand out from the darkness behind it much more sharply and neatly.

GoofBckt

Sorry to give the wrong impression or too little info, what I meant by burnt background was a background in which you would use the burn tool to black out. I didn't mean blown out, as in white or grey, sorry.

angevin1 wrote: »

That all sounds well and good to better than I was imagining...from what little info given by the Op. Still curious though~

angevin1

GoofBckt wrote: »

(I hope it shows up)

it doesn't.

pathfinder

Joel Grimes does lovely portraits ( of people ) shot with cross lighting that are then cut out and composited on a different background, which is frequently a much darker HDR image. You can see his rim lighting effect in several of the images on this page - http://joelgrimes.com/GalleryMain.asp?GalleryID=40196&AKey=P7FJP8B4

And a rim lighting effect with a dark background of the fellow with his arms crossed over his chest - http://joelgrimes.com/GalleryMain.asp?GalleryID=74657&AKey=P7FJP8B4

Is this the kind of seperation you are wanting, Goofbckt? The cross lighting was shot in the studio with the initial exposure for the portrait.

Joel is quite adept at using Photoshop for compositing his images, and I am not aware of Elements ability to do these kinds of selections as easily. Maybe other Element users will offer their suggestions.

Peano

GoofBckt wrote: »

I use Photoshop Elements 11. I love it and I really think it does everything I need it to do . . . maybe not? Thanks, gang.
Carrie

You might check your technique in using the refine edge feature. Perhaps also give Topaz Remask a trial (free).

GoofBckt

Thanks for this, I appreciate it.

Peano wrote: »

You might check your technique in using the refine edge feature. Perhaps also give Topaz Remask a trial (free).

GoofBckt

I just finally watched this vid and this is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you again so much!

GoofBckt wrote: »

Thanks for this, I appreciate it.

pathfinder

Here is a pretty good demonstration of "Taming the Refine Edge Command" to better capture fine hair detail for extraction

ziggy53

pathfinder wrote: »

Here is a pretty good demonstration of "Taming the Refine Edge Command" to better capture fine hair detail for extraction

That's really excellent!

DonFischer

GoofBckt wrote: »

Try this one. Here is one where I did burn out the background, but you can still see evidence in some places. Also, this was an easier one as there is really not a lot of mane flying:

This photo is one that I would love to correct and not have obvious "burn-out" spots showing in the mane, whiskers, etc.


I use Photoshop Elements 11. I love it and I really think it does everything I need it to do . . . maybe not? Thanks, gang.
Carrie

Look at that little wedge over the foals nose! Wanna know what I think? I'd be glad to get photo's only half as good as those! One of the things I noticed over the years watching these forums is that photographer's seem to concern themselves mostly with taking photo's for other photographer's. When an interest turns to work, I quit!