Using 3 lights, tonights BB game

EphTwoEight

So, I went to the poorest lit HS court, and tried 3 strobes.

Not sure if I or others would like these. So your C&C would be great.

And, I brightened up the background, could go even more. The players really popped well lit against the darker background, but I dont know:dunno. So, more brightness in the overall image? Or less? I think I got rid of the ghosting.

Set the 2 strobes behind me at 1/4 power, and the one across at 1/8. 640 ISO f/4, 250th, D800, 24-70 2.8

(yeah, I know, not probably as sharp as the Canons, but until I get a D4...)

1.

2.

3.

4.

And for fun,

5.

73Rocks

For my taste, I would keep the shutter speed at 250/sec . . . I think the background is luminated just right and you still have the action frozen. I would decrease the flash power of the two flashes behind you to 1/8th too . . . I like the players lit up just a little more than the background but not to the point where the harsh shadows start to show. But that is me . . . I get a lot of CC on the photo forums for the way I shoot.

I would try to work on your timing of your dribble-drive shots. It contributes to the action more if the ball is in the players' hand in the picture. I try to time my shots so that I press the shutter button when the ball is just coming back up off the floor.

As for #5 . . . I like shots like these. Any auxillary shot that contributes to the atmosphere of the game is a plus. Besides, I look at it this way . . . if there is a photo op and I am standing there with a camera in my hand, why not?

All in all though, great images. You should have no problem selling these shots.

EphTwoEight

Ah, cool thanks. Good points! Yeah that last one so so funny, them kids came out during one of the time-outs, and were so funny.

Hungry

I agree with 73rocks - your photos look fine from a lighting standpoint - though the harsh shadow kind of hits me in the face (and I try to avoid them). How, by fill. You have three lights - with nothing over 1/4 power. I would think your placement could help to fill the shadows.

I read your comments about MaxPreps and getting everything in focus - and that's not reasonable, but I think that was the conclusion on the other thread.

I think that the goal is to get the players sharply enough to know where one player stops and another begins, to know where there hands and feet are and the look in their eye. Frankly, if there is a little motion blur on the extremities - it is action, not still life.

More important than the lighting is the action we capture. There are so many good potential shots on the court (including those kids), but they go by so fast and all parts of the system (including the part of our brain that signals the finger to push the shutter release) have to be hitting just right in order to get a decent exposure - let alone an interesting photo.

You have the components for the exposure and capture - my suggestion is that you work on the content (ball leaving hand, jumps at peak, expressions on faces - agony and victory, matchups of David and Goliath or experience vs. energy, and amazing physical feats. But, sometimes you have to snap just to show the parents that their kid participated. Most photos won't be bought (what's unique about any of those above - or of mine) though they may be great technical shots or of great interest to us because we were there.

But, keep working on it for your own enjoyment. Each game (even each quarter) work on getting some element better. Use a wider focal length, shorter focal length, get players in air or only on ground, catch defense, figure out how to 'tell the story' of that three point shot, watch how guys congratulate each other on the court and catch it, try taking shots from different spots - under the basket, off to one end of the baseline, center court, halfway up the bleachers at baseline level, and so on.

People will help when you run into technical issues - but in the end, you need to be happy with what you produce.

EphTwoEight

Thanks, Hungry. Thats for sure that action from my eyeballs to my finger definitely has a delayed reaction. I need to work on that. I'm going to try with them all at 1/8 power next time. And turn off the zoom feature. I have the Phottix Odins, and somehow they wouldnt fire half the time. Thats another issue.

But yeah, theres not many games left, so by time I dial it in, the season will be over! UGH.

colinpurrington

I'm amazed that it's OK for strobes to be used. I'm used to swim meets, though, which has a flash to signal starts. Do the coaches ever complain?

EphTwoEight

No, in fact I made a bunch of 16x20 prints (only $8 at costco) and gave them to the players and coaches, and I asked each player if they noticed the flashes, and only one had to think about, and he said he noticed them, but didnt bother him at all, and the other players didnt even know I was using a flash.

Hungry

I have used SBs off the ceiling - no one noticed. I now use an Einstein bounce off the ceiling (sometimes one on each side of the court). I had the first comment this last week when the tip of the flash reflector was about at the ref's head level (it was tilted toward the court) - but even then the ref didn't complain, just pointed out that it was bright. I remedied the situation (I don't want to cause anyone any grief - and mess it up for some other photographer).

While the investment in strobes is great - they give a result you cannot get without the light. (by the way - that is my goal - to show parents their athletes 'in a different light'). Those that have never seen the well lit detail of our photos - particularly in large print - gotta love them. The detail available in the right scenes is irreplaceable; we can document milestones in their kids' lives (that they cannot get elsewhere). The question for the parent is "how much is it worth"? Unfortunately, I have not found parents that think that 5 12x18's a season are worth $100 (or more) in total. With 8 solid players on a squad (may be too generous) x $100 per family only generates $800 for the season on your $3k or more investment (I take $6 or 7k worth of gear to a game (at cost). Sure the equipment lasts more than one season, but the point is that you barely get paid for your time (or investment) or anything - and there is always something new that will help your results (like 4 flex TT5 triggers at $160 each to improve response with the wireless flash). btw - what parent has room for that many 12 x 18 prints on their wall?

So, we do what we enjoy doing.

johng

Hungry - that last post is the crux of it. There is no question that proper execution of strobes produces the best quality. The challenge then becomes how many other lines are plotted on the graph: the parent with a 70-200 2.8 giving away photos for free - it used to be there were no parents with that setup. Now there are. Even when there aren't - there's still a parent or two with DSLR shooting every game. The reality is - very few parents have a need for a lot of action photos. Even more - many parents simply want an electronic image for facebook or their iphone or maybe a 4x6 for scapbooking. The exception seems to be posters or trading cards. So, while your strobed shots have much better quality the reality is another parent is often providing shots that are "good enough' because they are free. There's always a parent that appreciates it enough to buy. The problem is having enough of those parents to make it worth while.

Hungry

Exactly Johng, Exactly

schlpic

+1 Hungry.
I attend the high school sports I enjoy and try to challenge myself to capture a certain shot at an event, as you hungry mentioned. If a parent purchases that's great, but it's an exercise for ME.
EphTwoEight-Did you use iso 640 for future maxpreps consideration? I haven't read all your posts. I'd think you could use iso 800 and higher without much too much noise for image quality? Maybe that doesn't fit with your personal goals.
I'm curious if you're using af-s or af-c? Your focus looks good. I switch to af-c, when there are many players are under the bucket, fighting for a rebound, going up for a shot, etc.
In agreement with what JohnG said, there's no way for me to anticipate enough sales to justify using my strobes (and no good place to set them up in our high school gym, without great risk of breakage), but it would be fun to try out for a good paying client! I use a D90 and stick to a sb600.
I noticed they have a lot of motivational posters throughout their gym, and a nice one of the team in the back on image #4. Is that your poster? Maybe you could approach the basketball program about shooting posters for their school?

EphTwoEight

640 for MaxPreps, well, I was hoping to keep the images clean. I know the D800 aint the best low light camera, but these last ones I did with less flash power and 800 ISO.







these have been with 3 strobes.

Sometimes I get to a game late and only use one light, and anyone can set the ISO to 3200 and continuous fire and just mash the button, but I dont care for all that.

AF-C, and usually single point. But 3D was working nicely too.

Them big banners I think, are done by a student there, she has one in that first shot too. Neat Graphic art skills, mediocre photos though.

schlpic

I was thinking more along the lines of iso 800 to maybe 1250--lol! 3200 could be pretty crazy But whatever works for your vision. I like your last set.

Max preps sound like they have crazy expectations. They probably cater to the larger schools with college level lighting. In rural gyms around the country, we know the real world is quite different!
Good luck on your journey with them.

I didn't go to the website listed on the poster in the first one, but I imagine that's the school student photographer and why the single banner/website address is allowed. Good for the school for promoting their students.

I'm not sure vinyl banners (I'd guess that's what they're using), are the greatest for image quality. I've seen a few that aren't as large as this (probably 4' x 6' with a team close-up), from studios that have solid work, that aren't that great either. Judging from the size of the folks in the image, compared to the size of the players pictured on the vinyl--that banner is huge.

EphTwoEight

Yeah, she is proud of that huge banner!

Getting the strobes balanced with the ambient light has been my biggest factor. I'm starting to figure it out. And theres only a few more games left.

Thanks!