Smugmug disaster alert!

kevingeary

WOW WOW WOW! Smugmug DISASTER ALERT.

So now that they have all these different account options and changes, they're screwing over business owners. Here's how...

I downgraded my account because I wanted to start using it more for personal stuff and less for business. But a few of my customers still had links to their galleries.

On downgrade, I thought it would be obvious that client ordering would be turned off since they don't allow you to make profit nor is there any proof delay for editing images.

One of my clients just ordered 40 prints at cost using a link I gave them back when ordering was turned ON. Smugmug let them place their order at cost knowing I had downgraded my account. And worse, they DIDN'T EVEN NOTIFY ME OF THE ORDER .... THE CLIENT DID!

And even worse still, the client was delivered unedited prints because of the lack of proof delay and notification!!

Smugmug basically said, "sorry, too bad." I asked WHY IN THE WORLD ordering would not be turned OFF by default on downgrade and they had no answer. If you want to turn off ordering you have to go in and MANUALLY disallow your clients from ordering prints at cost and receiving unedited images!

This strikes me as absolute sleaze on the part of Smugmug as they get to continue selling MY PRODUCT with profit to them and no profit to me and no CARE for my brand image.

I'm disgusted. This is the nail in the coffin. Absolutely unacceptable.

Ann McRae

Hi

I'm really sorry that you were caught off guard by this, but every SmugMug account from Basic to Business allows the purchase of prints. This can be turned off by the account owner in any individual gallery. It's always been this way - that printing is on by default in your galleries. In fact, we advise our Business Account owners to make sure that they have pricing in place before opening up galleries to clients, with printing enabled:

http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/728983-how-to-avoid-crippling-photo-theft

Again, sorry that you were not expecting to need to turn the printable setting off in your galleries when you changed your account. We do outline the features that will change, when you toggle account levels in your control panel, and ask if you are ready for those changes.

ann

kevingeary wrote: »

On downgrade, I thought it would be obvious that client ordering would be turned off since they don't allow you to make profit nor is there any proof delay for editing images.

Absolutely unacceptable.

mbonocore

Kevin,

I sincerely apologize that this has upset you. This is not a "sleaze" move on SmugMug's part though. All SmugMug Galleries, at all SmugMug account levels are created with the Shopping Cart feature turned on. This can be changed by utilizing the Quick Settings.

http://news.smugmug.com/2011/03/30/smug-tip-of-the-week-quick-settings-for-quick-setup/

For Basic and Pro accounts, this feature is meant to allow the photographer the ability to give the clients the option of ordering prints, even if there is no profit margin. This is a feature that most Basic and Power users love, as providing a way for their clients to purchase prints does enhance their business, even if they are not making a profit.
This feature is noted in the plan comparison.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/photo-sharing-features/

When you downgrade your account, we keep all settings intact. Of course, this includes having the shopping cart enabled, so your clients can still purchase prints if they wish. If you would like to disable this, it is easy to do on all of your galleries with just a couple simple clicks. You can read more about that at:

http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93307-where-are-my-gallery-settings-

I do sincerely apologize this behavior is not what you expected. But this is not unusual or "sleaze". We simply kept your gallery settings intact during your plan change, and the shopping cart setting is available on all SmugMug plans.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have.

Michael

Allen

So what do you do when in a state that requires you to collect sales tax?

mbonocore

Allen wrote: »

So what do you do when in a state that requires you to collect sales tax?

When SmugMug is collecting sales tax on print orders, that means SmugMug has taxable presence in that state and is required to collect sales tax by that state.

Michael

Allen

... and if Smugmug doesn't have taxable presence in the state? The owner of the photos would have
to collect, right? But they have no idea if any of their photos are being sold.

BTW, is there is list of these taxable presence states?

mbellot

mbonocore wrote: »

I sincerely apologize that this has upset you. This is not a "sleaze" move on SmugMug's part though. All SmugMug Galleries, at all SmugMug account levels are created with the Shopping Cart feature turned on. This can be changed by utilizing the Quick Settings.

Here in lies my continual issue with SmugMug.

Automatically turning on features that should be off by default and not providing a way to reverse that at the account level.

Allowing printing should be a conscious and deliberate decision by the photographer, not an automatic "on" by SmugMug that the photographer needs to turn off. Blowing it off with a reference to Quick Settings is ridiculous.

Four months to go before I renew, each week pushes me further out when I see issues and responses like this... Way to go SM.

kevingeary

This isn't an issue where I created galleries and accidentally left the selling feature on. This is an issue where all my galleries had the selling feature on BECAUASE I WAS SELLING PRINTS.

When I downgrade to a level that doesn't allow PRO SALES, why would it make sense to convert all my galleries to non-profit/at cost/no editing allowed sales? Is it not foreseeable that this would cause problems for ANY clients who already had links to galleries?

Your solution is for me to go in and manually remove the selling feature from dozens of galleries? Why would a professional ever want to sell their product at cost, with no knowledge of the sale, and an unfinished product at that? What customer would want to pay money and shipping for unedited prints?

I don't care what the CURRENT DEFAULT is. I'm telling you that the current default MAKES NO SENSE FOR ANYONE EXCEPT SMUGMUG, who continues to profit off of everyone else's disappointment.

mbonocore

Allen wrote: »

So what do you do when in a state that requires you to collect sales tax?

kevingeary wrote: »

This isn't an issue where I created galleries and accidentally left the selling feature on. This is an issue where all my galleries had the selling feature on BECAUASE I WAS SELLING PRINTS.

When I downgrade to a level that doesn't allow PRO SALES, why would it make sense to convert all my galleries to non-profit/at cost/no editing allowed sales? Is it not foreseeable that this would cause problems for ANY clients who already had links to galleries?

Your solution is for me to go in and manually remove the selling feature from dozens of galleries? Why would a professional ever want to sell their product at cost, with no knowledge of the sale, and an unfinished product at that? What customer would want to pay money and shipping for unedited prints?

I don't care what the CURRENT DEFAULT is. I'm telling you that the current default MAKES NO SENSE FOR ANYONE EXCEPT SMUGMUG, who continues to profit off of everyone else's disappointment.

Kevin,

Again, I sincerely apologize for this. In response to your question "Is it not foreseeable that this would cause problems for ANY clients who already had links to galleries?" this is the first case of this being an issue that I have ever heard of. Our systems cannot determine what settings every user would like based on their own business model. That is why we give vast tools in the Account Settings and gallery settings, so you can adjust as you wish.

As for your question " Why would a professional ever want to sell their product at cost, with no knowledge of the sale, and an unfinished product at that?", alot of our Basic and Power customers use the shopping cart and love having it to provide their clients with professional prints. We have the numbers and the positive feedback, so we know that this is a desired addition to the Basic and Power accounts. If these customers ever determine they would like to control the prices, Proof delay, or make a profit, they upgrade to the Portfolio or Business level.

The behavior you experienced is desired, and as stated in the numerous links I pasted above, is well described that the shopping cart is accesible from Power and Basic Accounts, so if you downgrade your account, the settings will be carried over.

I will submit an issue with our developers to add some text to describe this in greater detail when a user downgrades their subscription level, and hopefully this will help eliminate any confusion for future users.

Thank you for your understanding, and I sincerely apologize this did not work as you expected.

Michael

kevingeary

mbonocore wrote: »

Kevin,

Again, I sincerely apologize for this. In response to your question "Is it not foreseeable that this would cause problems for ANY clients who already had links to galleries?" this is the first case of this being an issue that we have ever heard of. Our systems cannot determine what settings every user would like based on their own business model. That is why we give vast tools in the Account Settings and gallery settings, so you can adjust as you wish.

As for your question " Why would a professional ever want to sell their product at cost, with no knowledge of the sale, and an unfinished product at that?", alot of our Basic and Power customers use the shopping cart and love having it to provide their clients with professional prints. We have the numbers and the positive feedback, so we know that this is a desired addition to the Basic and Power accounts. If these customers ever determine they would like to control the prices, Proof delay, or make a profit, they upgrade to the Portfolio or Business level.

The behavior you experienced is desired, and as stated in the numerous links I pasted above, is well described that the shopping cart is accesible from Power and Basic Accounts, so if you downgrade your account, the settings will be carried over.

I will submit an issue with our developers to add some text to describe this in greater detail when a user downgrades their subscription level, and hopefully this will help eliminate any confusion for future users.

Thank you for your understanding, and I sincerely apologize this did not work as you expected.

Michael

That's totally unacceptable. This was a foreseeable problem that was either not foreseen or not cared to be foreseen. Shame on smugmug. I'll be taking my business to a more responsible place.

mbonocore

kevingeary wrote: »

That's totally unacceptable. This was a foreseeable problem that was either not foreseen or not cared to be foreseen. Shame on smugmug. I'll be taking my business to a more responsible place.

Kevin,

I do understand your frustrations and I really do apologize. This is the way the settings are handled when an account level is changed. Since the shopping cart is available at all account levels, the setting is preserved. I will look into changes on our side that prevent a situation like this from happening again in the future.

I do hope to keep you as a SmugMug customer. While this is the intended behavior, I completely understand why it would be upsetting to a pro like yourself. Please feel free to email me anytime if you would like to take the discussion offline.

mbonocore@smugmug.com

Michael

cjyphoto

Been waiting for all the great new features SM is going to roll out with their new pricing scheme... So far nothing. Looking forward to my account expiring in October.

Joves

kevingeary wrote: »

That's totally unacceptable. This was a foreseeable problem that was either not foreseen or not cared to be foreseen. Shame on smugmug. I'll be taking my business to a more responsible place.

Brother I complained about this when both the pic collecting, and then the printing at cost things came up. I stated that with both of those features that they should have been defaulted to off since they circumvented any security you had on. I was told the same garbage of, well you can shut them off line, when pointing out they should have never been on, I was pretty much told I was over reacting. This is especially true for the print end of it. I have still asked why it is the SM thinks they can sell anyones Copyrighted images without the owners knowledge, still have yet to get a clear answer on that. I do not have to worry about it now but I do see you are getting the same party line answers I got.