What am I doing wrong?

JMelloJMello Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
edited March 18, 2013 in Technique
Hey there,

Let me just start off by saying that I'm very new to Dgrin, and currently taking a Beginners online Course in Digital Photography. I feel that I have a good understanding of the basic's so far but there is something I can't seem to figure out right now.

My Gear:
Nikon D60 w/ Nikon DX 18-55mm (non-VR)

I want to take pictures using a high shutter speed in order to "Freeze" motion (Went to an indoor soccer game today.) , but all the pictures I take at anything higher than around 1/60 shutter speed with my widest aperture f4.8 - f5.6, comes out very dark ( Underexposed? is that right? :P ). I've tried to change my ISO higher but then the pictures become very grainy and still semi dark.

Sports mode shots had excellent exposure but they were very blurred, I guess that is because it would auto adjust to about 1/4 shutter speed.

Even taking pictures in my bedroom, I still get the same dark, grainy picture using a fast shutter speed and high aperture.

Is this a problem due to an older camera model / lens Issue or do I still need learn how to adjust my settings better?

Any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated! :D

Thanks.

TL;DR Noob here. High shutter speed pictures on Nikon D60 come out very dark / grainy on high ISO / Aperture Settings.
Angelo Melito Photography

Comments

  • HelvegrHelvegr Registered Users Posts: 246 Major grins
    edited February 26, 2013
    Welcome to Dgrin.

    So you are evaluating a scene in which you want to freeze action, so you increase your shutter speed. Fair enough. Now of course the faster the shutter speed, the shorter the time your sensor is exposed to light. So you are left with 2 options to get more light on the sensor at a high speed. Option 1, increase the size of the aperture of the lens. You want to open it big to let as much light as possible for that short duration. Here is where you will hit your first "gear wall". something like 5.6 isn't a very large aperture. If you were to compare that to a f/2.8 lens, thats two whole stops darker, just because of the limit of the aperture.

    Ok, so the aperture is the widest it can go, so you are left with option 3, increasing your ISO. Here is your next gear wall. The higher the ISO, the more sensitive the camera's sensor is to light. Increase too high and you start to get noise. A camera like a D60 isn't going to be able to shoot the same ISO as say something like the D700,D4 or other full frame sensors.

    If I were you, I'd start with some new glass. Personally I tell people to look at something like the 50mm f/1.4 or even the f/1.8 if you are really tight on coin. Its a prime lens, so you'll zoom with your feet. But you'll be amazed as what you can produce with some good glass instead of starting out with some f/4.8-f/5.6 variable aperture zoom.

    Good luck!
    Camera: Nikon D4
    Lenses: Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 | Nikon 50mm f/1.4
    Lighting: SB-910 | SU-800
  • JMelloJMello Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited February 26, 2013
    Helvegr wrote: »
    Welcome to Dgrin.

    So you are evaluating a scene in which you want to freeze action, so you increase your shutter speed. Fair enough. Now of course the faster the shutter speed, the shorter the time your sensor is exposed to light. So you are left with 2 options to get more light on the sensor at a high speed. Option 1, increase the size of the aperture of the lens. You want to open it big to let as much light as possible for that short duration. Here is where you will hit your first "gear wall". something like 5.6 isn't a very large aperture. If you were to compare that to a f/2.8 lens, thats two whole stops darker, just because of the limit of the aperture.

    Ok, so the aperture is the widest it can go, so you are left with option 3, increasing your ISO. Here is your next gear wall. The higher the ISO, the more sensitive the camera's sensor is to light. Increase too high and you start to get noise. A camera like a D60 isn't going to be able to shoot the same ISO as say something like the D700,D4 or other full frame sensors.

    If I were you, I'd start with some new glass. Personally I tell people to look at something like the 50mm f/1.4 or even the f/1.8 if you are really tight on coin. Its a prime lens, so you'll zoom with your feet. But you'll be amazed as what you can produce with some good glass instead of starting out with some f/4.8-f/5.6 variable aperture zoom.

    Good luck!

    Thanks,

    I figured that I was a bit limited with the gear I'm using right now. I'm probably going to upgrade to a D600 once I've completed the course and have gotten used to shooting with the gear I have now.
    Angelo Melito Photography
  • Mike JMike J Registered Users Posts: 1,029 Major grins
    edited February 26, 2013
    Welcome to Dgrin. Helvegr gave you a really nice overview of the exposure triangle: shutter speed, aperture, ISO. In addition to your class, you might want to pick up a copy of Understanding Exposure: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-3rd-Edition-Photographs/dp/0817439390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361915935&sr=8-1&keywords=exposure+book I have found this to be a great resource to have around.

    You didn't mention if you were doing any post-processing noise reduction on your shots. Good noise reduction software can help out a lot with high ISO shots. I mainly shoot RAW and use Lightroom4 to do noise reduction. It's adequate for what I need to do.
    Mike J

    Comments and constructive criticism always welcome.
    www.mikejulianaphotography.com
    Facebook
  • HelvegrHelvegr Registered Users Posts: 246 Major grins
    edited February 26, 2013
    JMello wrote: »
    Thanks,

    I figured that I was a bit limited with the gear I'm using right now. I'm probably going to upgrade to a D600 once I've completed the course and have gotten used to shooting with the gear I have now.

    D600 would be a great camera no doubt. However if you drop the money on a D600 and put that same f/5.6 variable aperture lens on it, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice.

    I did a very small basic photography workshop for some co-workers, one of them with a D40 I think, with the original plastic kit lens it came with. Since we were both Nikon shooters, I put my 24-70 f/2.8 on her camera and she was amazed at the difference.
    Mike J wrote: »
    Welcome to Dgrin. Helvegr gave you a really nice overview of the exposure triangle: shutter speed, aperture, ISO. In addition to your class, you might want to pick up a copy of Understanding Exposure: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-3rd-Edition-Photographs/dp/0817439390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361915935&sr=8-1&keywords=exposure+book I have found this to be a great resource to have around.

    You didn't mention if you were doing any post-processing noise reduction on your shots. Good noise reduction software can help out a lot with high ISO shots. I mainly shoot RAW and use Lightroom4 to do noise reduction. It's adequate for what I need to do.

    Good point. The noise reduction in LR4 is pretty darn amazing. Probably another reason I'd start with some better glass, use post processing to help compensate from higher ISO shots, and go from there.
    Camera: Nikon D4
    Lenses: Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 | Nikon 50mm f/1.4
    Lighting: SB-910 | SU-800
  • JMelloJMello Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited February 26, 2013
    Mike J wrote: »
    Welcome to Dgrin. Helvegr gave you a really nice overview of the exposure triangle: shutter speed, aperture, ISO. In addition to your class, you might want to pick up a copy of Understanding Exposure: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-3rd-Edition-Photographs/dp/0817439390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361915935&sr=8-1&keywords=exposure+book I have found this to be a great resource to have around.

    You didn't mention if you were doing any post-processing noise reduction on your shots. Good noise reduction software can help out a lot with high ISO shots. I mainly shoot RAW and use Lightroom4 to do noise reduction. It's adequate for what I need to do.


    I have fiddled with Lightroom4 for a bit, Even with the noise reduction the quality of the photo still doesn't look right to me, But I'm sure that I'll get the hang of it eventually.
    Also, I Was able to pick up an E-Version of the book so I'm looking forward to reading it tonight.

    Thanks for the info :)
    Helvegr wrote: »
    D600 would be a great camera no doubt. However if you drop the money on a D600 and put that same f/5.6 variable aperture lens on it, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice.

    I did a very small basic photography workshop for some co-workers, one of them with a D40 I think, with the original plastic kit lens it came with. Since we were both Nikon shooters, I put my 24-70 f/2.8 on her camera and she was amazed at the difference.



    Good point. The noise reduction in LR4 is pretty darn amazing. Probably another reason I'd start with some better glass, use post processing to help compensate from higher ISO shots, and go from there.

    You make a very good point. I went by a Vistek Store today and found out that I can rent these Lenses for pretty cheap, and also test the D600 at the counter. So later this week I'm going to go and spend some time there checking out all the differences.
    Angelo Melito Photography
  • Mike JMike J Registered Users Posts: 1,029 Major grins
    edited February 26, 2013
    Time to post some photos...:D
    Mike J

    Comments and constructive criticism always welcome.
    www.mikejulianaphotography.com
    Facebook
  • JMelloJMello Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited February 28, 2013
    E3hn6qL.jpg

    This was my best attempt so far at freezing motion,
    I used LR4's noise reduction which came out pretty good.

    I'm wondering if I could submit this to the Dgrin #123 Abstract challenge. :)
    Angelo Melito Photography
  • camerasamcamerasam Registered Users Posts: 2 Beginner grinner
    edited March 1, 2013
    our gear has it's limits
    Like your experience with the indoor shooting, I have discovered the limits of my Canon gear as well. The 50D and 18-55 lens will do so much and that is it. Thats why the sports shooters go to the games with $3000 lenses and up. However on a nice bright day your soccer shots will look great. Is the colored smoke from edit or a filter?
  • JMelloJMello Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited March 2, 2013
    camerasam wrote: »
    Like your experience with the indoor shooting, I have discovered the limits of my Canon gear as well. The 50D and 18-55 lens will do so much and that is it. Thats why the sports shooters go to the games with $3000 lenses and up. However on a nice bright day your soccer shots will look great. Is the colored smoke from edit or a filter?


    We are somewhat limited but that doesn't mean we can't still take some great pictures :)
    I'll have to wait until warmer weather for some outdoor soccer shots.
    Also, for the coloured smoke I just simply changed the White balance to Tungsten, then edited the clarity and hue.
    Angelo Melito Photography
  • jfslater98jfslater98 Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 18, 2013
    JMello wrote: »
    We are somewhat limited but that doesn't mean we can't still take some great pictures :)
    I'll have to wait until warmer weather for some outdoor soccer shots.
    Also, for the coloured smoke I just simply changed the White balance to Tungsten, then edited the clarity and hue.

    Hello fellow n00b,

    Like you I am just starting out and somewhat disappointed with results of the kit lens that came with my pawn shop D50. I got a deal on a refurbed 1.8 prime
    http://www.adorama.com/NK3518R.html

    And it really does make a difference. My recommendation would be to put a small investment in some good prime glass, before immediately jumping to the new/shiny body.

    Great shot with the smoke, BTW!
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