The first image seems as though it might be over sharpened, especially the end of its tail and around its cheek and arm.
Love the expression in picture four, although it's eating - to anthropomorphise, it looks like a cheeky smile.
Lovely set of images, but some still don't seem as sharp as they perhaps could be, to me, especially with that lens. High ISO?
Thanks for looking and commenting Jemma. There has been no sharpening done on any of the photos. If you feel they are not as sharp as they should be I should have probably done a wee bit of sharpening. I would like to know what others feel about this.
Bob
Hi Bob
First, congrats on the new lens! I have one also and have always been impressed with the capabilities even though it's a (dreaded) zoom.
I see a dramatic improvement in sharpness over the previous Red Squirrel series you posted - so right-away you've got to like that.
I looked at the EXIF on several of these shots and noticed pretty high ISO settings, but some quite fast shutter speeds also.
I mention this because I notice quite a bit of noise in these images and I think you can probably shoot at lower ISO (and so, slower SS's) to reduce noise.
Also, do you include software noise-reduction in your PP workflow?
Another thing I noticed is some "jaggies" on fine lines such as the whiskers in #6 - when a mate of mine pointed out jaggies in my JPEG exports from PS Elements 9,
I was kind of amazed to see (multiple side-by-side comparisons), that the same flaw did not appear in exports from (then) LR3. I would not have expected a noticeable difference - but it was real.
Jaggies can mimic over-sharpening and is probably what Gemma sees on the highlights in #1.
Have fun with that big ol' lens Bob!
Thanks for looking and commenting Jemma. There has been no sharpening done on any of the photos. If you feel they are not as sharp as they should be I should have probably done a wee bit of sharpening. I would like to know what others feel about this.
Bob
Hi Bob,
What I thought was over sharpening in your first picture is perhaps what Earache referred to as 'jaggies'.
The images are sharper than the first set of red squirrels you posted, but I find myself that if I take the shot at a high ISO it affects how sharp they are because the noise can mean there isn't as much detail which makes them appear less sharp. I know higher ISOs are necessary sometimes though and perhaps a touch of sharpening in PP?
I don't think it matters that some of their tails are a bit out of focus, but I think the head/eyes need to be sharp.
Of course this is just my opinion and they're still a lovely set of images.
Hi Bob
First, congrats on the new lens! I have one also and have always been impressed with the capabilities even though it's a (dreaded) zoom.
I see a dramatic improvement in sharpness over the previous Red Squirrel series you posted - so right-away you've got to like that.
I looked at the EXIF on several of these shots and noticed pretty high ISO settings, but some quite fast shutter speeds also.
I mention this because I notice quite a bit of noise in these images and I think you can probably shoot at lower ISO (and so, slower SS's) to reduce noise.
Also, do you include software noise-reduction in your PP workflow?
Another thing I noticed is some "jaggies" on fine lines such as the whiskers in #6 - when a mate of mine pointed out jaggies in my JPEG exports from PS Elements 9,
I was kind of amazed to see (multiple side-by-side comparisons), that the same flaw did not appear in exports from (then) LR3. I would not have expected a noticeable difference - but it was real.
Jaggies can mimic over-sharpening and is probably what Gemma sees on the highlights in #1.
Have fun with that big ol' lens Bob!
Thanks ever so much for replying Eric and explaining your findings. I am sure I will enjoy this lens having been used with the Sigma 50-500 which didn't have IS.
In the past when shooting these type of shots I have always used the TV mode with a shutter speed around 800 - 1000. The light can change so much and if it is not bright I have to up the ISO and this is when the noise tends to creep in. Do you think I should change to AV mode?
I do have Noise Professional on CS5 but very seldom use it because I find it gets rid of the noise but makes everything else soft of you know what I mean.
This is the first time I have heard of 'Jaggies' but I definately see what you mean. I am sure you are right that is what Jemma has seen. Can you please tell me how to get rid of these using CS5 or how to avoid them in the first place. What causes them?
Looking forward to hearing from you soon Eric.
Many thanks
Bob
What I thought was over sharpening in your first picture is perhaps what Earache referred to as 'jaggies'.
The images are sharper than the first set of red squirrels you posted, but I find myself that if I take the shot at a high ISO it affects how sharp they are because the noise can mean there isn't as much detail which makes them appear less sharp. I know higher ISOs are necessary sometimes though and perhaps a touch of sharpening in PP?
I don't think it matters that some of their tails are a bit out of focus, but I think the head/eyes need to be sharp.
Of course this is just my opinion and they're still a lovely set of images.
Yes Jemma, I am sure Eric is right in what he says about 'jaggies' I am hoping he will be able to tell me how to get rid of them or to avoid them. Maybe you can help in this direction. I take on board everything you say about using ISO. What mode do you shoot in when taking these or similar shots? As I explained to Eic I have always used TV mode with a shutter speed of 800 - 1000 and then bumping up the ISO if the light is not as good as it should be.
I appreciate all your kind help and thanks for replying.
Bob
...What mode do you shoot in when taking these or similar shots? ...
Almost always Av or M in my case, with aperture rarely shut down more than a stop in either case and more often than not, wide open (f4). Then adjust iso as required for appropriate ss. As using older kit, don't really like to go above iso1600, so can easily end up with a lower ss than ideal ... I still have a go, and hope I get lucky
Almost always Av or M in my case, with aperture rarely shut down more than a stop in either case and more often than not, wide open (f4). Then adjust iso as required for appropriate ss. As using older kit, don't really like to go above iso1600, so can easily end up with a lower ss than ideal ... I still have a go, and hope I get lucky
Results look sharper than before, btw.
pp
Thanks ever so much for replying PP. I will have to try AV mode F/4.5 and bump up the ISO to get a fast shutter speed of around 800. I use this lens on a 7D rather than my 5D MK11 because the 7D has a must faster FPS.
Thanks
Bob
Yes Jemma, I am sure Eric is right in what he says about 'jaggies' I am hoping he will be able to tell me how to get rid of them or to avoid them. Maybe you can help in this direction. I take on board everything you say about using ISO. What mode do you shoot in when taking these or similar shots? As I explained to Eic I have always used TV mode with a shutter speed of 800 - 1000 and then bumping up the ISO if the light is not as good as it should be.
I appreciate all your kind help and thanks for replying.
Bob
Like PP, I usually shoot in aperture priority at the widest aperture of my lens and use ISO to get my shutter speeds faster if necessary - I prefer to see what the shutter speeds are at the widest aperture with the available light so I can keep the ISO as low as possible depending on what I'm photographing.
Like PP, I usually shoot in aperture priority at the widest aperture of my lens and use ISO to get my shutter speeds faster if necessary - I prefer to see what the shutter speeds are at the widest aperture with the available light so I can keep the ISO as low as possible depending on what I'm photographing.
Thanks a lot Jemma. I am covering the Carlisle Stages Rally tomorrow and I will certainly change from TV to AV and do as you have suggested.
I really appreciate this.
Bob
Thanks ever so much for replying PP. I will have to try AV mode F/4.5 and bump up the ISO to get a fast shutter speed of around 800. I use this lens on a 7D rather than my 5D MK11 because the 7D has a must faster FPS.
Thanks
Bob
This'll change as you zoom, of course since the lens isn't a constant aperture one ... the 'f4' I mentioned in a previous post relates to the main lens I use (500f4), although I also have a 100 -400 as you (now) have.
Whilst both have their pros / cons, on the few times I use the zoom, and light is disappearing (if there was any in the first place ) ... I keep looking at the '5.6' in the vf and start muttering various oaths.
Am probably using M mode more these days for particular conditions, btw ... but obviously we all have preferred ways of working.
Bob, "jaggies" is kind of an old-school term from the bad old days of 1-2-3 megapixel sensors - maybe only used over here - to describe the pixelation that occurred when you tried to enlarge
those low-res images beyond a practical limit. Nowadays, it may not be the exact technical reason for what we see in your JPEGS, and I'm sorry to say I don't know the cause other than how the software
functions to create the image. As I mentioned, I was quite surprised to see - using the same export parameters - different results from two programs, both Adobe.
Perhaps you can post an example and question over on Finishing School and one of the experts there may have the answer.
Good tips from Gemma and Paul and I would echo the advice to use AV mode - in decent light, f5.6 is not that much of a handicap - and keep the ISO as low as possible.
For example, EXIF on #6 shows 1/1600 @ ISO 4000 w/+2 EC - for a relatively still subject (I know, wishful thinking), I think you have a bit of wiggle-room to lower the ISO.
The IS function of the 100-400 will give you 2-3-4 (4 would be lucky) stops and allow slower SS. You're the Photographer, tell those squirrels to sit-still and pose pretty.
Re the shots themselves (esp 1 > 4) - I'd echo / repeat what I've suggested before ... try to get down to the subject's eye level, if practicalities allow ... you'll invariably have opportunities to rest the cam on something 'found' (via a beanbag or even a rucksack) for additional support (as iirc, you were asking about elsewhere).
pp
(Judging by the comments I've received from the subject's owner, this 'eye level' approach was appreciated in a rather different scenario too ) http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=235568
There has been no sharpening done on any of the photos. If you feel they are not as sharp as they should be I should have probably done a wee bit of sharpening. I would like to know what others feel about this.
Bob
you said it yourself ; they are not as sharp as they should be I should have probably done a wee bit of sharpening
remember that processing your photo's in computer is a very important part of photography !!!!
you can blame technique , lens , camera , light , but ,.............
most of your photo's i have seen can look much better if you spent some time editing them , not in the least sharpening
post-processing is just as important as the photography bit
you said it yourself ; they are not as sharp as they should be I should have probably done a wee bit of sharpening
remember that processing your photo's in computer is a very important part of photography !!!!
you can blame technique , lens , camera , light , but ,.............
most of your photo's i have seen can look much better if you spent some time editing them , not in the least sharpening
post-processing is just as important as the photography bit
hope it helps you
Thanks Basfit I kave done as you have suggested. I have given them all a wee sharpen and I can definately see an improvement.
However, is there anyway in CS5 I can get rid of the 'Jaggies' in images 1 and 6?
Thanks a lot
Bob
then you must first explain what you mean with jaggies
1 for images like this i prefer smart sharpen above other methods
smart sharpen is not called smart sharpen for nothing
it kind of knows what to sharpen and what not
2 you could try to work with layer-masks
with layer masks you can blur the background while sharpen your subject
then you must first explain what you mean with jaggies
1 for images like this i prefer smart sharpen above other methods
smart sharpen is not called smart sharpen for nothing
it kind of knows what to sharpen and what not
2 you could try to work with layer-masks
with layer masks you can blur the background while sharpen your subject
Hi Bas,
In actual fact I had never heard of jaggies. Apparently jaggies have appeared on the 1st and 6th image. They can be seen on the whiskerin the 6th image. On the 1st image they can be seen on the tail and shoulder.
Also if you scroll up to Earache's post in this thread you will see what he is on about 'jaggies'
I have looked on CS5 Smart Sharpen. I have never used this and I was wondering if you had any guidelines on how to use it?
Thanks again I really appreciate all your kind help you are giving me.
Bob
it are reflections of sunlight
when you sharpen they become more visible
sometime you can blur them a bit
as for sharpening ;
after you done with the image , but before saving / uploading use smart sharpening
1 drag amount all the way right
2 adjust radius
you will see halo's appear around the edges
adjust so that the halo's are just a bit visible at 100% view ( which is default )
too less= not sharp , too much=ugly
3 adjust amount for the desired amount
4 repeat / fine-tune as you please , toggle the preview mark regurly so you see what you do on your image
clicking inside the square preview shows the "before" in preview
remember there is always "undo" and "step back" in the menu
tip
dont forget to reduce noise first
noise and sharpening are opposites
when you try sharpening a noisy image , you will make the noise stronger
it are reflections of sunlight
when you sharpen they become more visible
sometime you can blur them a bit
as for sharpening ;
after you done with the image , but before saving / uploading use smart sharpening
1 drag amount all the way right
2 adjust radius
you will see halo's appear around the edges
adjust so that the halo's are just a bit visible at 100% view ( which is default )
too less= not sharp , too much=ugly
3 adjust amount for the desired amount
4 repeat / fine-tune as you please , toggle the preview mark regurly so you see what you do on your image
clicking inside the square preview shows the "before" in preview
remember there is always "undo" and "step back" in the menu
tip
dont forget to reduce noise first
noise and sharpening are opposites
when you try sharpening a noisy image , you will make the noise stronger
That is brilliant Bas, Thanks a lot I really appreciate that.
Cheers
Bob
Comments
The first image seems as though it might be over sharpened, especially the end of its tail and around its cheek and arm.
Love the expression in picture four, although it's eating - to anthropomorphise, it looks like a cheeky smile.
Lovely set of images, but some still don't seem as sharp as they perhaps could be, to me, especially with that lens. High ISO?
Thanks for looking and commenting Jemma. There has been no sharpening done on any of the photos. If you feel they are not as sharp as they should be I should have probably done a wee bit of sharpening. I would like to know what others feel about this.
Bob
First, congrats on the new lens! I have one also and have always been impressed with the capabilities even though it's a (dreaded) zoom.
I see a dramatic improvement in sharpness over the previous Red Squirrel series you posted - so right-away you've got to like that.
I looked at the EXIF on several of these shots and noticed pretty high ISO settings, but some quite fast shutter speeds also.
I mention this because I notice quite a bit of noise in these images and I think you can probably shoot at lower ISO (and so, slower SS's) to reduce noise.
Also, do you include software noise-reduction in your PP workflow?
Another thing I noticed is some "jaggies" on fine lines such as the whiskers in #6 - when a mate of mine pointed out jaggies in my JPEG exports from PS Elements 9,
I was kind of amazed to see (multiple side-by-side comparisons), that the same flaw did not appear in exports from (then) LR3. I would not have expected a noticeable difference - but it was real.
Jaggies can mimic over-sharpening and is probably what Gemma sees on the highlights in #1.
Have fun with that big ol' lens Bob!
Hi Bob,
What I thought was over sharpening in your first picture is perhaps what Earache referred to as 'jaggies'.
The images are sharper than the first set of red squirrels you posted, but I find myself that if I take the shot at a high ISO it affects how sharp they are because the noise can mean there isn't as much detail which makes them appear less sharp. I know higher ISOs are necessary sometimes though and perhaps a touch of sharpening in PP?
I don't think it matters that some of their tails are a bit out of focus, but I think the head/eyes need to be sharp.
Of course this is just my opinion and they're still a lovely set of images.
In the past when shooting these type of shots I have always used the TV mode with a shutter speed around 800 - 1000. The light can change so much and if it is not bright I have to up the ISO and this is when the noise tends to creep in. Do you think I should change to AV mode?
I do have Noise Professional on CS5 but very seldom use it because I find it gets rid of the noise but makes everything else soft of you know what I mean.
This is the first time I have heard of 'Jaggies' but I definately see what you mean. I am sure you are right that is what Jemma has seen. Can you please tell me how to get rid of these using CS5 or how to avoid them in the first place. What causes them?
Looking forward to hearing from you soon Eric.
Many thanks
Bob
Yes Jemma, I am sure Eric is right in what he says about 'jaggies' I am hoping he will be able to tell me how to get rid of them or to avoid them. Maybe you can help in this direction. I take on board everything you say about using ISO. What mode do you shoot in when taking these or similar shots? As I explained to Eic I have always used TV mode with a shutter speed of 800 - 1000 and then bumping up the ISO if the light is not as good as it should be.
I appreciate all your kind help and thanks for replying.
Bob
Almost always Av or M in my case, with aperture rarely shut down more than a stop in either case and more often than not, wide open (f4). Then adjust iso as required for appropriate ss. As using older kit, don't really like to go above iso1600, so can easily end up with a lower ss than ideal ... I still have a go, and hope I get lucky
Results look sharper than before, btw.
pp
Flickr
Thanks
Bob
Like PP, I usually shoot in aperture priority at the widest aperture of my lens and use ISO to get my shutter speeds faster if necessary - I prefer to see what the shutter speeds are at the widest aperture with the available light so I can keep the ISO as low as possible depending on what I'm photographing.
Thanks a lot Jemma. I am covering the Carlisle Stages Rally tomorrow and I will certainly change from TV to AV and do as you have suggested.
I really appreciate this.
Bob
This'll change as you zoom, of course since the lens isn't a constant aperture one ... the 'f4' I mentioned in a previous post relates to the main lens I use (500f4), although I also have a 100 -400 as you (now) have.
Whilst both have their pros / cons, on the few times I use the zoom, and light is disappearing (if there was any in the first place
Am probably using M mode more these days for particular conditions, btw ... but obviously we all have preferred ways of working.
Best of luck, anyway.
pp
Flickr
those low-res images beyond a practical limit. Nowadays, it may not be the exact technical reason for what we see in your JPEGS, and I'm sorry to say I don't know the cause other than how the software
functions to create the image. As I mentioned, I was quite surprised to see - using the same export parameters - different results from two programs, both Adobe.
Perhaps you can post an example and question over on Finishing School and one of the experts there may have the answer.
Good tips from Gemma and Paul and I would echo the advice to use AV mode - in decent light, f5.6 is not that much of a handicap - and keep the ISO as low as possible.
For example, EXIF on #6 shows 1/1600 @ ISO 4000 w/+2 EC - for a relatively still subject (I know, wishful thinking), I think you have a bit of wiggle-room to lower the ISO.
The IS function of the 100-400 will give you 2-3-4 (4 would be lucky) stops and allow slower SS. You're the Photographer, tell those squirrels to sit-still and pose pretty.
pp
(Judging by the comments I've received from the subject's owner, this 'eye level' approach was appreciated in a rather different scenario too
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=235568
Flickr
remember that processing your photo's in computer is a very important part of photography !!!!
you can blame technique , lens , camera , light , but ,.............
most of your photo's i have seen can look much better if you spent some time editing them , not in the least sharpening
post-processing is just as important as the photography bit
hope it helps you
/ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
However, is there anyway in CS5 I can get rid of the 'Jaggies' in images 1 and 6?
Thanks a lot
Bob
1 for images like this i prefer smart sharpen above other methods
smart sharpen is not called smart sharpen for nothing
it kind of knows what to sharpen and what not
2 you could try to work with layer-masks
with layer masks you can blur the background while sharpen your subject
/ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
In actual fact I had never heard of jaggies. Apparently jaggies have appeared on the 1st and 6th image. They can be seen on the whiskerin the 6th image. On the 1st image they can be seen on the tail and shoulder.
Also if you scroll up to Earache's post in this thread you will see what he is on about 'jaggies'
I have looked on CS5 Smart Sharpen. I have never used this and I was wondering if you had any guidelines on how to use it?
Thanks again I really appreciate all your kind help you are giving me.
Bob
when you sharpen they become more visible
sometime you can blur them a bit
as for sharpening ;
after you done with the image , but before saving / uploading use smart sharpening
1 drag amount all the way right
2 adjust radius
you will see halo's appear around the edges
adjust so that the halo's are just a bit visible at 100% view ( which is default )
too less= not sharp , too much=ugly
3 adjust amount for the desired amount
4 repeat / fine-tune as you please , toggle the preview mark regurly so you see what you do on your image
clicking inside the square preview shows the "before" in preview
remember there is always "undo" and "step back" in the menu
tip
dont forget to reduce noise first
noise and sharpening are opposites
when you try sharpening a noisy image , you will make the noise stronger
/ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
That is brilliant Bas, Thanks a lot I really appreciate that.
Cheers
Bob