Lenses how to find one.
Hi all, I am lost and a bit of desperate.
I am trying to find me this period two lenses a very wide one and a street zoom that is not very heavy. I guess you know that already from my previous posts.
I am making this post as I feel quite desperate on finding lenses. I am not asking for suggesting me specific lenses, there are previous posts for that.
I would like to to have a glimpse on how you approach the issue when you find your self looking for a specific type of lens (for example a light street zoom ).
What I tried is:
1. Check the sony lenses from the sony's website (there are cheaper resellers but I wanted to see the list of e-mounts)
2. Then as I saw that the auto focus lenses are out of my reach is time to dwell on the adapted lenses market.
3. Then I tried to get some suggestions from the forum, that I got. But.. sometimes is hard to find the lenses listed on the ebay. The other day I was reading, for example, this article I found some suggestion there. I could not find the entry in ebay at all. Sometimes can it be also that people try to insert the lenses with slight different name of what I was suggested. I guess this comes from the fact that resellers do not care about making precise titles. Of course this is very confusing for me. Example as the other day I was trying to pinpoint a lens on ebay of what I have been suggested.
4. Is very hard for me to find reviews for a lens and more hard to compare between different suggestions I get.
5. Then I did a generic search on ebay for telezooms where I also found a lot of affordable telezoom lense. Surpisingly there are many lenses around 30-40 euros at good condition like : a or b or c and perhaps the d.
The hard stuff for me is to compare image qualities, over sharpness, over weight of the lens and then make a choice. In my computer world there are reviews for all the single components (cpus, ram. .. e.t.c). Of course one can start buying stuff here and there but I do not really want to start filling up with glass that it will die on drawers.
6. Even worse I do not understand the terminology on ebay.Few examples
FD,MD,PK, "FOR NIKON AI-S", " for BAYONET SLRs BX20 BC1","WITH MACRO" .
What is all the stuff and how probable is that I can buy something that I can not fit (with the appropriate adapter of course in my nex body?)
7. Then there are also more questions bugging me. If I am willing spending 200 euros for an adapted lens why not invest a bit more and get the EA1 cheap A-mount adapter and give me access to the cheaper line the A-Mount lenses offer? That might be an expensive short investment but it might pay off in the future instead of buying more and more adapted lenses.
I think you can now understand why I feel so much frustrated. I am not sure how to search for that and asking on forums sometimes does not help too much either. Different proposals of different needs (of course people would like to help). How do you approach the issue also when you think you should try a different lens?
Regards
Alex
I am trying to find me this period two lenses a very wide one and a street zoom that is not very heavy. I guess you know that already from my previous posts.
I am making this post as I feel quite desperate on finding lenses. I am not asking for suggesting me specific lenses, there are previous posts for that.
I would like to to have a glimpse on how you approach the issue when you find your self looking for a specific type of lens (for example a light street zoom ).
What I tried is:
1. Check the sony lenses from the sony's website (there are cheaper resellers but I wanted to see the list of e-mounts)
2. Then as I saw that the auto focus lenses are out of my reach is time to dwell on the adapted lenses market.
3. Then I tried to get some suggestions from the forum, that I got. But.. sometimes is hard to find the lenses listed on the ebay. The other day I was reading, for example, this article I found some suggestion there. I could not find the entry in ebay at all. Sometimes can it be also that people try to insert the lenses with slight different name of what I was suggested. I guess this comes from the fact that resellers do not care about making precise titles. Of course this is very confusing for me. Example as the other day I was trying to pinpoint a lens on ebay of what I have been suggested.
4. Is very hard for me to find reviews for a lens and more hard to compare between different suggestions I get.
5. Then I did a generic search on ebay for telezooms where I also found a lot of affordable telezoom lense. Surpisingly there are many lenses around 30-40 euros at good condition like : a or b or c and perhaps the d.
The hard stuff for me is to compare image qualities, over sharpness, over weight of the lens and then make a choice. In my computer world there are reviews for all the single components (cpus, ram. .. e.t.c). Of course one can start buying stuff here and there but I do not really want to start filling up with glass that it will die on drawers.
6. Even worse I do not understand the terminology on ebay.Few examples
FD,MD,PK, "FOR NIKON AI-S", " for BAYONET SLRs BX20 BC1","WITH MACRO" .
What is all the stuff and how probable is that I can buy something that I can not fit (with the appropriate adapter of course in my nex body?)
7. Then there are also more questions bugging me. If I am willing spending 200 euros for an adapted lens why not invest a bit more and get the EA1 cheap A-mount adapter and give me access to the cheaper line the A-Mount lenses offer? That might be an expensive short investment but it might pay off in the future instead of buying more and more adapted lenses.
I think you can now understand why I feel so much frustrated. I am not sure how to search for that and asking on forums sometimes does not help too much either. Different proposals of different needs (of course people would like to help). How do you approach the issue also when you think you should try a different lens?
Regards
Alex
0
Comments
If you don't know what a particular seller is selling, it's best to ask the seller directly.
You can also Google for "lens abbreviations".
As for knowing what lenses "might" fit your camera, that will just take some research on your part. If you really want to save money, you'll just have to take that time. Find out what adapters are available and then learn which lens mounts are compatible.
As a start, here are a couple of charts which should help a bit:
http://www.similaar.com/foto/lensmount/lensmount.html
Even so, buying used lenses on EBay is somewhat risky. Lenses may become scratched or have an internal fungus/mold/mildew, and the seller may be unaware. Never buy something on EBay without understanding that risk.
It does scare me a bit when you say, "... many lenses around 30-40 euros at good condition ...", because many lenses at that price on EBay really are quite poor in quality.
If you want some assurance of quality, I suggest looking at reputable on-line dealers. I know the reputable dealers in the US, but you'll have to do some research yourself regarding EU dealers.
For instance, KEH.com is a very reputable dealer, and they offer a 6 - month warranty on most items. More importantly, if you don't like something you can just ship it back (following their rules for returns). Your only out-of-pocket risk is the shipping costs. They are also pretty good about descriptions, although I have had a couple of items over the years that were improperly described. (Both items were returned without difficulty, and credit was immediate upon their receipt of the items.
I'm not recommending KEH for you because I believe that VAT and shipping costs might be steep, but that's the sort of dealer you should look for.
In general, higher-quality prime lenses have large apertures. Exceptions to this rule are true "macro" lenses (offering at least 1:2 magnification.) Since you are looking for a "very wide" lens it's important to first know what camera and sensor size. For a crop 1.5x/1.6x sensor (for instance) "wide" starts around 17-18mm. "Very wide" would be shorter than this, the problem being that very old lenses are generally designed for the larger 35mm/Full-Frame 135 format film. You just don't have much selection in older lenses for a super-wide older prime which will work on newer bodies.
A fairly good choice for very wide-angle (IMO) is a more modern super-wide zoom. Since you seem to have a Sony "E" mount camera, a budget example might be the Tamron 11-18mm, F4.5-5.6 TAMRON ASPHERICAL DI-II INTERNAL FOCUS LD (in Nikon "F" mount). KEH has one of these available for $254USD in "EX" condition (although it's missing the lens hood.) If you did purchase a Nikon-F/Sony-E-mount adapter that could be a reasonable purchase. I have to caution that totally manual focus can be difficult and takes special techniques and is never easy or fun. Cheaper adapters many not allow aperture adjustment either.
There are also techniques for taking multiple, overlapping images and "stitching" them together in post-production, yielding as much angular view as you need. Again, it's not easy but it's really not too bad either. The results can be awfully nice once you learn the techniques.
My primary recommendation is to save up and purchase autofocus lenses, designed for your camera.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Why auto focus lenses for my camera? The cheaper zoom for example is at 285 dollars which I do not have right now. Second I like manual focusing and the autofocus ring do not have meters printed which helps me with the fast manual focusing procedure.
Why would be so weird to have manual lens and fast manual focus?
It depends upon your specific camera model as to whether you gain focus confirmation using a simple lens adapter and manual focus lens. If you can achieve focus confirmation, manual focus may not be so bad for static scenes. For any sort of action, manual focus can be a problem.
If you don't have focus confirmation, manual focus can depend on "live view" and the ability to zoom into the image for focus.
Some cameras (a couple of interchangeable lens bodies) do have "focus peaking", which can help tremendously with manual focus. (Some Canon cameras can also use "Magic Lantern" firmware overlay software to provide focus peaking.)
The simple adapters may not have aperture control for electrically controlled aperture lenses. Finding suitable old lenses with both manual focus and manual aperture ring "plus" super-wide-angle may not be possible.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I using a nex-f3 with 1.5 crop factor. For me wide is below 19mm so I can stay really close to the main subject and also include the background.
I know the problems you said with ebay and I only try to get lenses that describe precisely the condition.
I have already two manual lenses as my camera has peaking feature. Currently I am looking for a street zoom, like 70-150, or 55-150, or 70-170 (but with my crop factor that would be more than enough) that I can get around 100 euros. I can not afford the cheapest e mount lenses for my camera (The cheapest is 270euros) and a wide lens, if possible below 19mm.
I have tried looking a bit on the ebay for the street zoom but I totally got lost...
Regards
Alex
http://www.kenrockwell.com/vivitar/70-210mm.htm
http://www.robertstech.com/vivitar.htm
Unfortunately, you will not find a super-wide lens for the reasons I described above. I strongly suggest using multiple stitched images instead. That way you can achieve whatever field-of-view (FOV) you desire.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I will also do not go for a wide lens, especially adapted one. I was advised to avoid the old wide lenses as that time the technology was not mature enough. I will wait and go either for the legacy 16mm with the wide converter or the sigma 19mm.
Regards
Alex
Feel free to look for yourself. No, I don't think that you will do any better than the old Vivitar 70-210mm, f3.5 Series One manual zoom lens for a long zoom.
This was originally a "very" expensive lens, designed to compete with the best manufacturers' lenses. The fact that it sells so inexpensively now is to your benefit.
Good.
Specifically, if you use a "Philopod" approach, it will allow you to grab multiple, overlapping images, without the necessity of a tripod and special head. Freeware is available to help stitch those images into whatever FOV you wish.
http://wiki.panotools.org/Philopod
http://www.philohome.com/tripod/shooting.htm
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/24746725
http://hugin.sourceforge.net/
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/ice/
If you "can" afford a tripod and panoramic head, it will substantially improve the process. High-quality, rectilinear corrected lenses, like many true macro primes, improve the process even more.
Do check out the best panoramic thread ever:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=101529
Results:
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=990541&postcount=274
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=994328&postcount=293
Be sure to see what Baldy did here:
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1039964&postcount=362
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1039966&postcount=363
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
thanks for the answer and all the help I am getting. I appreciate the knowledge you share and the time you spent.
One think that still bothers me is how to rate the different adapted lenses. In my field (computers) you can always find comparisons and benchmarks for cpus for example and compare.
When I try look my self I always find something new model that is really hard to track how good the quality is:
For example
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/tea-gardens/digital-camera-accessories/vivitar-macro-focusing-zoom-lens-28-135mm-100/1023205027
Is this a good lens to use or not? How heavy is it? How bulky? And this is just an example.
There is of course the safe way to use your advice but I think If I am only copying -pasting others advices I will not be able to improve my self in the long term.
I will also try and check the links you gave me.
Later on I will also try to share part of my work and explain you in more details where I think I am stuck with my gear.
Cheers
Alex
I've been immersed in photography for some 45+ years. It has been my craft and my trade. Lens reviews and lens study has been a large part of my life, making me something of a living database.
Some generalities:
As a rule, most Vivitar lenses are junk, purely and simply not worth your time. Exceptions are a few of the older "Series One" series of lenses (although the latter of that series is also junk), a singular "true" macro lens, specifically the Vivitar 100mm f3.5 Macro, and a Vivitar 500mm, f6.3, which I stumbled upon and which proved to be very high quality.
A brief history of Vivitar lenses. Firstly, Vivitar* never made anything. It was, and is, a company of private label items manufactured by someone else. Similarly the names Phoenix, Promaster, and some Voightlander are all re-badged items from someone else. Most often these lenses are from Cosina, but sometimes Tamron and Sigma too (as well as a few other sources.) Cosina lenses may come in your path as I believe that Cosina marketed their own name fairly heavily in European countries. Sears and other retailers also had their own "house brands", largely the exact same lenses as Phoenix, Promaster, and Vivitar. Most of these lenses are not worth serious consideration.
Many of the old Tamron and Sigma consumer (cheap) zooms are also pretty poor optics.
Most zoom lenses with the "Macro" designation are not true macro lenses, and most are of poor optic quality too. Generally, if it says "Macro" and it's a zoom lens and it's selling cheaply, it's probably a poor quality lens.
Constant aperture zoom lenses tend to be of higher optical quality than variable aperture zoom lenses.
For example, 70-300mm, f4-f5.6 zooms are in abundance from many different manufacturers. As a rule, they are of "passable" quality "if" you:
Limit the range to 70-200mm. The vast majority of these lenses do not do well at 300mm.
(There are extremely expensive zoom lenses in this class of lenses, but you pay a high premium for the extra quality.)
Alternately, most "constant aperture" 70-200mm, f2.8 zoom lenses tend to be of "very" high optic quality, and they command high prices too. Many are truly useful at their maximum aperture, lending tremendous extra utility to their use.
These large and constant aperture lenses are also pretty heavy. The larger aperture requires a larger front element, and typically they have more internal elements and groups too (compared to lesser zooms). If you can only carry one lens in this range I guarantee that you would be much better suited to carry one of these large, constant aperture zooms instead of the cheaper variety.
Prime lenses tend to be better quality than zoom lenses, especially in the same price range. True macro prime lenses, capable of 1:1 image size, are among the sharpest and contrasty lenses available.
Old Pentax screwmount/M42/Universal prime lenses with the SMC designation tend to be of very high optic quality.
For lens review sites I tend to start with the "professional" review sites. A professional site relies on a single person, or small staff, of reviewers, which generally have sufficient equipment, software and experience to make a measured and valued judgement of the tested lenses. They will often supply sample images to further illustrate their findings.
Some examples of professional lens review sites:
Photozone
DXOMark
Popular Photography
There are some professional photographers who offer their own insight on lenses they have tested and used. Many of these are very good sources of insight, although some are highly opinionated.
Professional photographer reviewer sites:
Ken Rockwell (Love him or hate him, always entertaining, sometimes right.)
Thom Hogan (Nikon-centric but one of the best.)
Bjørn Rørslett (Nikon-centric)
Bryan Carnathan (Canon-centric, some Nikon and third-party, fairly reasoned reviews)
There are also "peer" lens review sites, where people offer their own insights and ratings on lenses. These sites are less quantitative and exacting than the professional review sites, but if you find a consensus of opinions between users and between sites, that's a pretty good indication of what you can expect. Peer reviews also tend to review older and oddball lenses.
Some examples of peer lens review sites:
slrgear.com
www.lens-reviews.com
www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/
www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-lenses.html
For lots more reviews just Google for "lens reviews".
Unlike computers and electronic circuits, lenses are analog and mechanical. That means there will be sample variations even among consecutively numbered externally identical lenses.
Extremely expensive lenses may be better tested and tested to higher standards, but you cannot expect the same consistency among consumer/cheap lenses.
Lenses are also vulnerable to change and even damage over time. Mold/mildew/fungus can accumulate and even destroy lenses of any quality. Purchasing from a reputable dealer with ample return/exchange privileges is your only measure of buying safety.
EBay is always more risky than a reputable dealer. Factor that risk into your purchase decision.
The above are my observations and reflections of lens general traits and strictly "in-my-opinion" (IMO). To the best of my knowledge the statements I made are true as far as my experience and opinion, but I make no claims for any "absolute" truths in the above.
Photography in general is itself a very "subjective" subject. What applies to my work may not apply to yours or the next person's work.
As far as your statement, "... I think If I am only copying -pasting others advices I will not be able to improve my self in the long term.", but that is precisely how one starts to learn new things even at a very early age. With experience you will learn what and who to trust for advice about lenses and photography.
For now, DGrin has enough readership with checks and balances that you can trust most of what you read here. Better yet, use the links I provided above to double-check even what I say.
Edit: Vivitar, as of 2008, is now just a brand name of Sakar. I believe that Sakar has manufacturing facilities.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
One think though is why do you suggested me a Vivitar if these are considered as junk lenses?
With my price range I can also find a MD 35-135 mm
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Minolta-MD-Zoom-35-135mm-f-3-5-4-5-/120776806778?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item1c1edbd17a
What about this lens?
Regards
More tomorrow
Alex
I addressed this in the previous post. Please re-read.
Are you able to find an appropriate adapter for Minolta lenses on your body?
Minolta specific user/peer lens reviews:
http://www.dyxum.com
That specific lens:
http://www.dyxum.com/reviews/lenses/reviews.asp?IDLens=44
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
in the link you provided me it looks like that there are
http://www.similaar.com/foto/lensmount/lensmount.html
I do not think the link you gave me is for the same lens. The one you gave me is talking about an AF lens while I am looking for some old MF flavour.
Regards
A
Minolta adapters may be more difficult to find than Canon and Nikon adapters. Make sure that you research adapter availability before actually ordering any particular lens in a particular mount.
You are correct and that review is for the AF version. I am unable to find a review for the manual focus version of that lens and I have never seen one myself.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
the lenses I am talking is this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Minolta-MD-fit-Sigma-Zoom-IV-35-135mm-1-3-5-4-5-MC-lens-with-caps-and-case-/160993906920?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item257bfc10e8
but I have also see the http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokina-SD-70-210mm-f-4-5-6-Lens-/300441834274?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item45f3ba9322
which is a bit more compact than the vivitar...
some "draft" comparison here
http://www.talknex.com/f12/vivitar-series-1-70-210mm-f3-5-kiron-vs-tokina-sd-70-210mm-f4-5-6-a-3204/
I had a look on your suggestions and many thanks for the time you spent supporting me.
You are indeed right for the quality of the vivitar but I find it too heavy for my nex body... I also did some practice last week with my 135mm prime lens and I found that this is the maximum (focal length?) 135mm I want to use outdoors. Reason of course I am not able to handheld the camera and I will be needing a tripod.
So I was then looking on the MD 35-135 or the MD 55-135 as it would be a street zoom lens and I want to be able to handheld the camera. I was not able though to find any reviews on the two lenses.. so I am stuck again in the same situation. I have also noticed that people many times on their reviews tend to forget to mention the dimension of a lens and the weight... which I think is important for mirorless cameras where portability, at least for me, is an issue.
I would like to thank you again for your replies
Alex
Nice set of lens review resources.
Do you have an opinion about the reviews on SLR Gear?
http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/index.php
In particular, are their sharpness graphics more than just pretty pictures?
SLRGear/Imaging Resource appear to use DXO testing methodology and software, while other sites use Imatest. Do be aware that SLRGear/Imaging Resource also has lenses which are only peer reviews with no professional testing insight.
If you have an interest in the most complete data for any lens it's best to gather information from all of the testing sites and then look for a consensus of test results and independent opinion. All of the testing and review sites have merit used this way.
In other words, Use your favorite search engine to look "everywhere" on the Internet for information about lenses, and other equipment too. You can rapidly see when the formal tests and public opinion coincide. All sources of information have some value.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums