New to photography, looking for guidance.

PeebzNationPeebzNation Registered Users Posts: 3 Beginner grinner
edited July 28, 2013 in Cameras
An avid photographer friend of mine directed me here for further direction, so here I am! First post at Digital Grin...

So, I'm looking to get into the field of photography, both as a hobby and for professional reasons. I do freelance web design and development work for local businesses, and I often find that these companies have little to no digital imagery available for me to use, and I've reached the tipping point where I am going to start doing that myself.

I'm willing to dump some money into this venture, my budget is $800. What is a good camera to start with? What type of lense should I be using as a starter lense? Sorry if this post doesn't really belong here! I looked through the forums and this seemed to be the most pertinent. My friend has recommended a Canon Rebel, though wasn't really specific when it came to lenses. Any direction is appreciate, thanks! If you need anything clarified, let me know! I'm excited at finally being able to take quality images!

Comments

  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited July 23, 2013
    Unfortunately, like most beginners, you have grossly underestimated the budget to get into "photography". While it is entirely possible to find a camera and a lens for $800, that is merely a starting point. You'll probably want at least a basic bag to place your new purchase in. You'll need a memory card or two. Chances are you'll want at least two lenses.

    This places you firmly in the market for used gear. As even the most rudimentary Canon Rebel with a lens is going to be upwards of 90% of your allotted budget.

    Perhaps most importantly, you are going to need some reasonable instruction in how to get the most out of your camera. Particularly if you are going to be shooting for clients. Buying a decent camera no more makes a person a qualified professional photographer than buying a copy of Dreamweaver makes a person a web designer.

    Given your professional skill, would it be reasonable for you to seek to collaborate with a local photographic pro? Perhaps you can trade out web services for their professional skill in photography? That might prove a far more effective plan.

    Barring that, a Canon Rebel T2i (used) with the 18-55 lens that usually comes with it, might get you onto the path. Depending on what you plan on shooting, you might well need other lenses, a flash, or other items. You don't really offer enough specifics for anyone to give you solid advice.

    -P
  • chrisjohnsonchrisjohnson Registered Users Posts: 772 Major grins
    edited July 23, 2013
    You might consider a high end compact like Canon G series. A new G15 is around $500 and allows for semi-automatic and manual settings, tripod and external flash mount, shooting in RAW as well as JPEG, etc. You could even get a second hand "G" - I still use a G9 and see no reason to upgrade it. With the remaining cash you could get a tripod and a flash, plus a book or two on photography basics like composition. I would also advise a decent post-processing package like Aperture or Lightroom to help you finish your photos and keep them organised.

    Business wise I would recommend a relationship with a pro-photographer while you grow in confidence and competence. No gear you could purchase will substitute for years of learning and experience even at ten times your budget.

    Good luck!
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,127 moderator
    edited July 23, 2013
    It's true that an $800 budget means entirely used equipment, but you can get started in basic photography and at a professional level of quality.

    I too would recommend a used Canon T2i or T3i, mostly because you should be able to find a decent used body and because there is a larger selection in used accessories.

    KEH.com is a great used equipment vendor and they have a couple T3i bodies to choose from. I chose an EX+ condition body at $415USD (w/battery and charger):

    http://www.keh.com/camera/Canon-Digital-Camera-Bodies/1/sku-DC029991226440?r=FE

    Now add a Tamron 17-50, f2.8 ASPH DI II SP IF LD XR standard/normal zoom lens ($310):

    http://www.keh.com/camera/Canon-Digital-Non-Mfg-Zoom-Lenses/1/sku-DC094018745540?r=FE

    ... and a very old Vivitar 285HV for a flash ($49-$53):

    http://www.keh.com/camera/Vivitar-Flash-Shoe-Mount-Flashes/1/sku-VF210000047500?r=FE

    Now build a DIY flash modifier (~$3 or less)

    http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3

    Hopefully you have a recent version of Photoshop for your business. If not, I can recommend freeware like RawTherapee as the RAW converter:

    http://rawtherapee.com/downloads

    This software works fine on a 64 bit computer (Win/Mac/Linux).

    You'll probably also need an image editor to do layers (if you don't have Photoshop):

    http://www.gimp.org/downloads/


    Depending on your needs, I would recommend the following equipment as you can budget it:

    A TTL flash (or several). I use Sigma DG Super flashes professionally, as well as a couple of Canon 580EX flashes. A Sigma DG Super in either model 530 or 610 and in Canon mount would work very nicely. Even new they aren't horribly priced:

    http://www.adorama.com/SG610EOS.html

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/741717-REG/Sigma_189101_EF610_DG_Super_Flash.html

    A radio master/slave set. This lets you get the flash off the camera. They can be inexpensive/cheap for a very basic trigger, or as complicated and expensive as you wish. Tell us your needs and we can guide you better.

    A true macro lens. Essential for smaller objects, but doubles as a sharp prime lens. I use an old Tamron SP 90mm, f2.8 Macro and I'm very pleased with the results. You can get one in used condition for $300-$350 or so.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited July 23, 2013
    First, welcome to Dgrin. You'll find tons of good info from several people.

    $800 is not going to cover pro quality or even high end consumer quality equipment. For example, the less expensive pro bodies from Nikon are at $3K. The better quality consumer grade bodies are nearly double your budget...and you still don't have a lens. You could eat up your $800 budget on a single lens...and you still don't have a flash. You could easily eat up most of your $800 on a flash...don't forget about a computer and editing software.
    I could go on, but I think you get the picture (no pun intended). For pro quality equipment capable of daily commercial use, you could easily spend $10K or more.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited July 23, 2013
    Umm, $800 for new entry level gear is totally do-able.

    Canon Rebel T3i with 18-55mm IS kit lens, $599:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753762-REG/Canon_5169B003_EOS_Rebel_T3i_Digital.html

    Nikon D3200 with 18-55 VR kit lens: $547:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/856049-REG/Nikon_25492_D3200_DSLR_Camera_With.html

    Getting results that non-photographers view as "professional" depends about 80% on your ability to see, use, and control light, and your ability to compose an artistic shot. Some professionals are able to shoot entire weddings with an iPhone (literally) because they are masters at this.

    Next comes color, clarity, and sharpness, at which the above cameras are quite capable. Next comes producing a shallow depth of field and/or blurred background. The above lenses are somewhat limited in this regard, but they are infinitely better than any cell phone or point-n-shoot (like the Canon G-series and less). If you want even blurrier backgrounds, you can get a Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens for about $125 or a Nikon 50/1.8 for $216. Of these two lenses, the Nikon is better.

    Either setup is plenty to get you started.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited July 23, 2013
    What's missing is the kind of photography you need for your web designs. Are these clients who sell products that can be staged and photographed? Are they tech/biotech businesses that need shots of laboratories and computers? Do you take all-comers?

    If you are willing to take the time to learn the skills of photography, I'm sure you can get decent shots with $800 worth of equipment (so long as you don't have to do anything exotic). The question is whether this is worth your while, or should you just buy stock photography from the many vendors that sell it and focus on the design aspects of your work. My observation is that there is a lot of stock imagery available. This may not work if your clients want images of their products in action.

    One other option is to just hire a pro photographer when you need one, and add this to your rates.
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited July 23, 2013
    Umm, $800 for new entry level gear is totally do-able.

    Canon Rebel T3i with 18-55mm IS kit lens, $599:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753762-REG/Canon_5169B003_EOS_Rebel_T3i_Digital.html

    Nikon D3200 with 18-55 VR kit lens: $547:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/856049-REG/Nikon_25492_D3200_DSLR_Camera_With.html

    Getting results that non-photographers view as "professional" depends about 80% on your ability to see, use, and control light, and your ability to compose an artistic shot. Some professionals are able to shoot entire weddings with an iPhone (literally) because they are masters at this.

    Next comes color, clarity, and sharpness, at which the above cameras are quite capable. Next comes producing a shallow depth of field and/or blurred background. The above lenses are somewhat limited in this regard, but they are infinitely better than any cell phone or point-n-shoot (like the Canon G-series and less). If you want even blurrier backgrounds, you can get a Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens for about $125 or a Nikon 50/1.8 for $216. Of these two lenses, the Nikon is better.

    Either setup is plenty to get you started.
    Sure he could get entry level body w/kit lens for $800 and take better shots than Aunt Jane with her point and shoot...but, he still doesn't have a fraction of the necessary equipment to "shoot for a living". Also, IF he were to buy the $600 kit, I'd bet that within a few months, he'd be looking for something that would stand up to commercial everyday use. He is already on a tight budget, buying cheap then upgrading a year later does nothing to save money...
  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited July 23, 2013
    Exotic... you mean like take a portrait of an executive in an office? Gonna need some lights for that. That built in flash is not gonna cut it. And that kit lens at 55mm is going to be F5.6 so he's not going to be shooting ambient either unless it's at ISO3200.

    Or maybe the client needs motion shots. Probably going to be tricky with that kit lens. Product photos? Again, lights and a tripod.

    I don't consider a couple of lights and a tripod to be exotic, but those items alone could be more than the allotted budget.

    If he's looking for "pro" results, or even stuff that looks better than rank amateur stuff, a way to hold the camera still and a way to get some light on his subjects is going to rank pretty high on the need-to-have scale.

    jhefti wrote: »
    If you are willing to take the time to learn the skills of photography, I'm sure you can get decent shots with $800 worth of equipment (so long as you don't have to do anything exotic).
  • PeebzNationPeebzNation Registered Users Posts: 3 Beginner grinner
    edited July 23, 2013
    I've clearly been pointed to the right place with all of this tremendous feedback - thank you very much for the warm welcome. It turns out I'm going to be able to utilize one of my uncle's used DSLR cameras. He's an avid photographer, and kind of wealthy, so he goes through camera's and camera gadgets like they're going out of style. It didn't even occur to me to ask him until this morning. He's going to help me out with the camera body portion, though I may still have to look at lenses.

    The clients I deal with tend to want their own unique imagery, and I want to be a well-rounded solution for them. Meaning, I want to be able to provide all of their creative services - custom web sites, original photography, graphic design, and even marketing to an extent (handling online advertising, call tracking, etc..). Typically I'll be taking shots with the focal point coming anywhere between a meter and 10 to 20 meters away (beer bottles to industrial sized equipment). I feel like photography is the biggest skill I'm missing in being able to deliver a well rounded solution. Specialization is a great thing, I could entirely focus on mocking up designs in photoshop and then implementing them in a custom Drupal theme, but I want to be a full-stack solution, top to bottom, bottom to top. I've been involved with web technology since I was 14 years old, and I just really feel that it's time that I rounded off my skillset a bit more.

    I do own a full copy of CS 5.5 Master Collection, as well as Photoshop CS6... I have yet to jump on the Creative Cloud bandwagon, but that's a discussion for another day (super bitter about the SaaS model).

    Anyway, what I'm taking away from this is I obviously have a ton to learn about the use of a camera and getting the most out of my equipment when it comes to applied skill, and it's obvious that Digital Grin is going to be a valuable resource for me going forward. Thank you all.
  • PeebzNationPeebzNation Registered Users Posts: 3 Beginner grinner
    edited July 23, 2013
    Exotic... you mean like take a portrait of an executive in an office? Gonna need some lights for that. That built in flash is not gonna cut it. And that kit lens at 55mm is going to be F5.6 so he's not going to be shooting ambient either unless it's at ISO3200.

    Or maybe the client needs motion shots. Probably going to be tricky with that kit lens. Product photos? Again, lights and a tripod.

    I don't consider a couple of lights and a tripod to be exotic, but those items alone could be more than the allotted budget.

    If he's looking for "pro" results, or even stuff that looks better than rank amateur stuff, a way to hold the camera still and a way to get some light on his subjects is going to rank pretty high on the need-to-have scale.

    You're absolutely right, with a ludicrous budget like I have I'm in way over my head when it comes to getting the "pro" shots. This is the beginning of an investment in skill. I like to think I have the ability to "get the shots", and I really want to give this a try first before I jump all the way in, because you never know I might totally suck at it and just not get it... but, I think I will get it. I love holding a camera, and wonder why I haven't jumped into the hobby side of things to this day (I'm 28 years old by the way).

    Hopefully my uncle is able to hook me up, and I'll be able to give this whole field a whirl. I talked to him very briefly this morning, so I'll know more in a couple of weeks as to the gear available for me to use.
  • perronefordperroneford Registered Users Posts: 550 Major grins
    edited July 23, 2013
    You've got a few things going for you. Someone who can help you with gear, a tremendous attitude, and some artistic/creative talent. Graphic design and photography share a lot in common. The idea of manipulating 3D imagery really haunts a lot of people, but if you have skills in one, it translates well to the other. The difference with photography, is that... well, you have to do it in real life! There's no wireframes or shaders. There's no putting it away for tomorrow when inspiration strikes. I have a very famous photographer friend who shoots for USA Today and his words still ring in my ear... "Sometimes, I get only 3 minutes with my subjects and I need to get 2-3 looks in that time." I can work fast, but I think even I would struggle to take solid photos of celebrities in 3 minutes.

    If you can, find out which camera body your uncle will be giving you. That will allow us the opportunity to help you map out a solid path forward. Also, if you see some imagery on the interwebs that really strikes your fancy or you think your clients would enjoy, put a link here, and we can tell you what might be necessary to get a similar shot.

    -P
  • chrisjohnsonchrisjohnson Registered Users Posts: 772 Major grins
    edited July 24, 2013
    Lots of good advice Peebznation and it is great to be interested in photography as a creative person. You are in a good place here for help and advice.

    As a business man I would strongly recommend you think twice about doing the photos yourself for your work. I have run a creative business for many years and hire pro-photographers when needed for a job - I would not dream of taking the shots myself despite having some decent gear and ability. My clients expect me to supply a complete solution and that means they expect me to hire professionals when needed. A good professional brings a lot of value and will try to reflect whatever vision you and your clients have in mind. There is no way a hobby photographer like myself can do what a pro-photographer does and having or not having the right gear is the least of it.
  • Moogle PepperMoogle Pepper Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited July 24, 2013
    An avid photographer friend of mine directed me here for further direction, so here I am! First post at Digital Grin...

    So, I'm looking to get into the field of photography, both as a hobby and for professional reasons. I do freelance web design and development work for local businesses, and I often find that these companies have little to no digital imagery available for me to use, and I've reached the tipping point where I am going to start doing that myself.

    I'm willing to dump some money into this venture, my budget is $800. What is a good camera to start with? What type of lense should I be using as a starter lense? Sorry if this post doesn't really belong here! I looked through the forums and this seemed to be the most pertinent. My friend has recommended a Canon Rebel, though wasn't really specific when it came to lenses. Any direction is appreciate, thanks! If you need anything clarified, let me know! I'm excited at finally being able to take quality images!

    This is a good read. :)http://zarias.tumblr.com/
    Food & Culture.
    www.tednghiem.com
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited July 28, 2013
    If it's any encouragement I have a friend who also started off in graphic design. One day she got pressed into service as a photographer for one of her projects, and picked it up quickly. She now is the sole breadwinner (through her photography alone) for a family of four, who a nice house in a very expensive city, so she must be doing alright.

    However, she has very high end equipment and rents lights and studios when she travels (which she does for most of her shoots). I don't know the path between her initial interest and where she is now, but somehow she managed.

    If I may, I'd suggest befriending a pro and ask if you can spend some time assisting him/her. I largely worked my way up the learning curve by trial and error--not always pretty--but I was never trying to make it anything more than a side profession. (And I don't do the kind of work you're interested in, so I can't be of much help.)
  • joshhuntnmjoshhuntnm Registered Users Posts: 1,924 Major grins
    edited July 28, 2013
    $800 wont' go very far. I'd get a cheap digital slr (I am a Canon guy). Get lightroom. shoot raw. External flash is real nice to have. Post lots of pics on here. there are some brilliant and really helpful photogs onhere.
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