You've made at least three posts in 15 mins. I'm sure you could have put something on an "FAQ" page in that amount of time.
Yeah if I wanted my site to look amateurish. I'm talking about fixing the problems not going from a stable professional site to something that lacks functionality and looks shambolic (but has an FAQ). To be clear, I *haven't* migrated. I won't migrate till Smugmug or I have suitable workarounds for the issues I've encountered. So a FAQ explaining how to go from one photo to the next is of no use to me, or my customers. Thanks for your suggestion.
You've made at least three posts in 15 mins. I'm sure you could have put something on an "FAQ" page in that amount of time.
People aren't going to read "FAQ" pages unless they feel they have to. I cannot imagine people will opt to click on a separate FAQ page while they're trying to click through a gallery, or to find out how to use the lightbox view, etc. They're just going to say, "I know I should be able to just figure this out...now why doesn't it just work?" & if they get frustrated enough, they'll leave. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to help our viewers, but I see why site-owners are simply asking for some of this weird stuff to be changed rather than spending time writing up a page that no one will look at.
People aren't going to read "FAQ" pages unless they feel they have to. I cannot imagine people will opt to click on a separate FAQ page while they're trying to click through a gallery, or to find out how to use the lightbox view, etc. They're just going to say, "I know I should be able to just figure this out...now why doesn't it just work?" & if they get frustrated enough, they'll leave.
That's just one option and one option is better than no options and leaving customers. FAQ was just an example of a title. You could easily name it something more appropriate and direct.
I'm just trying to maybe help someone think of workarounds until SmugMug fixes the issue.
My point is why punish your customers for something that is out of your control. Take control and help them.
Or you could just stick to Legacy smugmug for now if you haven't made the mistake of unveiling as yet. It is far more functional and easier to use.
There isn't a single actual, useful feature in the new Smugmug that has made me want to unveil. Sure, it looks shiny and new and pretty, but if you look past basic design aesthetics, there has been a huge hit in basic functionality and they've made the entire browsing experience a lot more non intuitive which is just so wrong considering everyone visits a SmugMug site to browse through images.
The widget based customization is nice, though some of that is broken as well, but there is so much that is wrong with the new design choices that none of the new features can outweigh all the things you have to give up when unveiling to the new SmugMug. Just by way of example:
1) Captions - Far far worse in the new SmugMug
2) Page layout in Gallery mode - Too much whitespace at the top. Captions and some of the thumbnails end up below the fold in Gallery mode. That is just wrong. Legacy SmugMug was perfect
3) The entire Photo navigation and associate UI - Most of that is well documented in this thread
4) Lack of javascript customization - The custom Javascript scripts in the Sticky on this forum were fantastic and transformed my site and made it even more easy to browse and use than the default Legacy Smugmug. Now I take 2 hits, lack of the JS customizations, and then the loss of the intuitive browsing features in the New Smugmug
5) Friends & Family and Communities
I could go on. I'm all for improving SmugMug and I even support the idea behind the new release. But all the new stuff should have come IN ADDITION to the stuff above, not at the expense of it. There is no good argument for why these were taken away. None of it was necessary for them to be able to implement what they have.
When you have clicked on an image and gone full screen, you can hit the ESC key to go back to the smaller view. Interestingly and not funny, is that I never saw the apparent small "X" to hit!!!!!! AHHHHH! Now I see it and now I don't...it disappears after a few seconds of viewing the larger image.....arggggg. But, anyway, I found ESC to work. You can also hit ESC to get out of the slideshow function showing the larger images. When leaving the slideshow with ESC and then leaving the large image with ESC causes the thumbs to not advance to pages selected with the tool at the bottom of the thumbs. A ticket has been opened on that bug already.
When you have clicked on an image and gone full screen, you can hit the ESC key to go back to the smaller view. Interestingly and not funny, is that I never saw the apparent small "X" to hit!!!!!! AHHHHH! Now I see it and now I don't...it disappears after a few seconds of viewing the larger image.....arggggg. But, anyway, I found ESC to work. You can also hit ESC to get out of the slideshow function showing the larger images. When leaving the slideshow with ESC and then leaving the large image with ESC causes the thumbs to not advance to pages selected with the tool at the bottom of the thumbs. A ticket has been opened on that bug already.
I can guarantee you that there are going to be users and clients who click on a photograph to go into the full screen mode, only to then panic when they can't figure out how to get back to the original gallery and will eventually just close their browser/tab and say to hell with it.
Legacy Smugmug - A clickable hyperlink with the word "Close" at the top right, which is always persistent in the full screen toolbar. Also, the ability to click on the full screen image which takes you back to the gallery view
New SmugMug - The only thing you can click to close is the not so big X at the top right corner which is a lot easier to miss (the thin minimalistic design isn't helping here). You can't click on the image or the black outer region to get back to the Gallery (expected behavior on most lightbox implementations). Even worse, the X and the Arrow icons fade away and disappear if you don't move the mouse. On a widescreen monitor, the X and the Arrow Icons can be at the periphery of your screen while the image is in the center making them even less noticable.
This may seem as nit picking, but it is only because I have seen these issues pop up all the time. Less savvy folks have a really hard time dealing with these types of interfaces that lack visual cues and don't have simple icons/text that explain the functionality of any button that is clickable.
New SmugMug - The only thing you can click to close is the not so big X at the top right corner which is a lot easier to miss (the thin minimalistic design isn't helping here). You can't click on the image or the black outer region to get back to the Gallery (expected behavior on most lightbox implementations). Even worse, the X and the Arrow icons fade away and disappear if you don't move the mouse. On a widescreen monitor, the X and the Arrow Icons can be at the periphery of your screen while the image is in the center making them even less noticable.
That isn't true at all. One can hit ESC to back out of any lightbox or full screem image/slideshow.
That isn't true at all. One can hit ESC to back out of any lightbox or full screem image/slideshow.
Right, because hitting ESC is so completely intuitive? A person who knows to hit ESC to get out of the fullscreen image view also knows to find his or her way around any UI to find the X to close the view. Heck, I just realized that in all my years of using my Legacy SmugMug, I never once tried to hit ESC to exit the fullscreen view (even though I always use the arrow keys to browse). So yes, I could add ESC to that list, but it doesn't change the point I was making in any way, shape or form.
Bill - That probably is the best solution at the moment but I personally dislike Journal mode for presenting images. I like a fresh image to pop up all at once some the viewer can take it in as the image appears. Scrolling through pictures with text in between somehow detracts from the images. Hard to explain, but I really do feel that visually, it is a lot less appealing to browse through images in Journal style.
I personally dislike Journal mode for presenting images. I like a fresh image to pop up all at once so the viewer can take it in as the image appears. Scrolling through pictures with text in between somehow detracts from the images. Hard to explain, but I really do feel that visually, it is a lot less appealing to browse through images in Journal style.
Agreed. Just a stop-gap (McGyver?) for me until smugmug fixes it. This assumes they will fix it.
I'm with HamsterHuey. I don't like the Journal style either, although I do use it for my "About Us" folder because there are only a half dozen photos in there.
The Journal style requires constant scrolling by the viewer, and I personally think the photos are TOO big (though maybe that could be customized). With the Smugmug style, as you know, the viewer simply had to keep hitting the same spot (either a key with their finger or an arrow with the mouse).
But, as Bill points out, it does solve the lack of an on-screen arrow navigation.
SmugMug site => The Bakker Chautauqua
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
Yeah, you are right. But you can' tell me the back function doesn't act the same?
Good thought. But alas, I just tested it, and nope. The back button will navigate to the previous photo, rather than return to Smugmug style.
I have to "refresh" the screen by tapping on it to bring back the X in the upper right.
The bigger problem is that on an iPad there is no way to advance to the next photo in Smugmug mode. You have to tap on each thumbnail. And of course you have to remember which photo you're on (or search for the matching photo) because it isn't highlighted in the thumbnails in any way.
Sigh.
SmugMug site => The Bakker Chautauqua
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
By the way, regarding my iPad, while the Smugmug style sucks, the Journal style (which as stated above I don't really like much) is perfect for the iPad. It scrolls by touch.
I think they call this sitting on the horns of a dilemma.
SmugMug site => The Bakker Chautauqua
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
Easy Navigation - Not
Even with the legacy system, I would have to tell clients to navigate to the ORIGINAL image (with explicit instructions) before hitting the download button. Then, I would tell them how to back track to get to another image and then start over with previous instruction. Since I had removed SmugMug branding, it appeared MY site was hard to navigate. Ticked me off but after awhile I could type the instructions quickly. And my return customers got used to it. Should NOT have to do this. Now, until they "fix" this issue, I will have to give more detailed instructions. I don't blame SmugMug to my customers...it's MY website. So, I just suffer and when asked say I am trying to get it worked out. That way they see I take responsibility for my website and lets them know I take responsibility for their images. I should not have to do that.
Even with the legacy system, I would have to tell clients to navigate to the ORIGINAL image (with explicit instructions) before hitting the download button. Then, I would tell them how to back track to get to another image and then start over with previous instruction. Since I had removed SmugMug branding, it appeared MY site was hard to navigate. Ticked me off but after awhile I could type the instructions quickly. And my return customers got used to it. Should NOT have to do this. Now, until they "fix" this issue, I will have to give more detailed instructions. I don't blame SmugMug to my customers...it's MY website. So, I just suffer and when asked say I am trying to get it worked out. That way they see I take responsibility for my website and lets them know I take responsibility for their images. I should not have to do that.
They never needed to navigate to the original to download it if you had originals enabled...
Just to give a quick update: We're overwhelmed by the massive amount of feedback. We're doing our best to sort through it and figure out how to handle each issue.
We will almost certainly be adding the navigation mentioned in this thread; we're just looking at how best to design it first.
Thank you very much for the feedback and keep it coming!
Just to give a quick update: We're overwhelmed by the massive amount of feedback. We're doing our best to sort through it and figure out how to handle each issue.
We will almost certainly be adding the navigation mentioned in this thread; we're just looking at how best to design it first.
Thank you very much for the feedback and keep it coming!
a) Thanks for the update! Much appreciated.
b) In the spirit of "keep it coming", it would be awesome if on mobile devices the viewer could advance to the next photo (Smugmug style) by swiping on the screen. Failing that, arrows would work (and would of course be the only viable option for non-mobile devices).
Gary
SmugMug site => The Bakker Chautauqua
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
Just to give a quick update: We're overwhelmed by the massive amount of feedback. We're doing our best to sort through it and figure out how to handle each issue.
We will almost certainly be adding the navigation mentioned in this thread; we're just looking at how best to design it first.
Thank you very much for the feedback and keep it coming!
It would be fabulous if the Previous / Next function could simply be up where it used to be, along with photo numbers. That's where the mouse pointer simply ends up, so the viewer doesn't need to move far. And also, it's not intrusive to the photo when it's near a corner. The numbers look ridiculous centered under the main photo the way they are now, as if it's the really important part. Yes, it's needed, but the captions should be instead directly under a photo rather than way down below the numbers.
A lot of these details had already undergone widespread discussion and trial-and-error and deep thought about placement in earlier SmugMug updates. Since that gallery style hasn't changed, there's not much point to simply trying to find some other spot to place navigational tools just for the point of changing something. Stick with the placements that have already been found to work well and that customers are used to, rather than starting from the basic assumption that every single thing needs to change.
Also, most other sites I've been on in past years have a fantastic function available in many gallery styles that's missing from the New SmugMug, at least people's sites I've seen so far. That is the ability of a thumbnail or any smallish photo to enlarge with a hover-over. It helps with navigation too & looks modern & gorgeous. Now that would be a welcome change!!!
Also, most other sites I've been on in past years have a fantastic function available in many gallery styles that's missing from the New SmugMug, at least people's sites I've seen so far. That is the ability of a thumbnail or any smallish photo to enlarge with a hover-over. It helps with navigation too & looks modern & gorgeous. Now that would be a welcome change!!!
I agree with moving the image number back to the top and have the navigation right there. How about prev arrow on the left and next on the right of the numbers JUST like it used to be? Glad SM is listening to us. Just wish it had been before going live instead of using EVERYONE as beta testers. Obviously, the "beta-testers" used were not checking many things. Maybe it was those happy people in the roll-out video!
Comments
Yeah if I wanted my site to look amateurish. I'm talking about fixing the problems not going from a stable professional site to something that lacks functionality and looks shambolic (but has an FAQ). To be clear, I *haven't* migrated. I won't migrate till Smugmug or I have suitable workarounds for the issues I've encountered. So a FAQ explaining how to go from one photo to the next is of no use to me, or my customers. Thanks for your suggestion.
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
I'm just trying to maybe help someone think of workarounds until SmugMug fixes the issue.
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There isn't a single actual, useful feature in the new Smugmug that has made me want to unveil. Sure, it looks shiny and new and pretty, but if you look past basic design aesthetics, there has been a huge hit in basic functionality and they've made the entire browsing experience a lot more non intuitive which is just so wrong considering everyone visits a SmugMug site to browse through images.
The widget based customization is nice, though some of that is broken as well, but there is so much that is wrong with the new design choices that none of the new features can outweigh all the things you have to give up when unveiling to the new SmugMug. Just by way of example:
1) Captions - Far far worse in the new SmugMug
2) Page layout in Gallery mode - Too much whitespace at the top. Captions and some of the thumbnails end up below the fold in Gallery mode. That is just wrong. Legacy SmugMug was perfect
3) The entire Photo navigation and associate UI - Most of that is well documented in this thread
4) Lack of javascript customization - The custom Javascript scripts in the Sticky on this forum were fantastic and transformed my site and made it even more easy to browse and use than the default Legacy Smugmug. Now I take 2 hits, lack of the JS customizations, and then the loss of the intuitive browsing features in the New Smugmug
5) Friends & Family and Communities
I could go on. I'm all for improving SmugMug and I even support the idea behind the new release. But all the new stuff should have come IN ADDITION to the stuff above, not at the expense of it. There is no good argument for why these were taken away. None of it was necessary for them to be able to implement what they have.
It says "Scroll down slightly to see captions. Use your keyboard arrow keys to go to prev / next photo."
Not very elegant, but it is simple and straightforward. But like my earlier post indicates, even this is useless for mobile viewing.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
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Legacy Smugmug - A clickable hyperlink with the word "Close" at the top right, which is always persistent in the full screen toolbar. Also, the ability to click on the full screen image which takes you back to the gallery view
New SmugMug - The only thing you can click to close is the not so big X at the top right corner which is a lot easier to miss (the thin minimalistic design isn't helping here). You can't click on the image or the black outer region to get back to the Gallery (expected behavior on most lightbox implementations). Even worse, the X and the Arrow icons fade away and disappear if you don't move the mouse. On a widescreen monitor, the X and the Arrow Icons can be at the periphery of your screen while the image is in the center making them even less noticable.
This may seem as nit picking, but it is only because I have seen these issues pop up all the time. Less savvy folks have a really hard time dealing with these types of interfaces that lack visual cues and don't have simple icons/text that explain the functionality of any button that is clickable.
That isn't true at all. One can hit ESC to back out of any lightbox or full screem image/slideshow.
JBHotShots.com
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
While the gallery is displayed, click on Customize > Gallery Style > Journal.
I think this will by my "fix" until smugmug fixes the nav arrows and comments in the other views.
http://billw.smugmug.com
Agreed. Just a stop-gap (McGyver?) for me until smugmug fixes it. This assumes they will fix it.
http://billw.smugmug.com
The Journal style requires constant scrolling by the viewer, and I personally think the photos are TOO big (though maybe that could be customized). With the Smugmug style, as you know, the viewer simply had to keep hitting the same spot (either a key with their finger or an arrow with the mouse).
But, as Bill points out, it does solve the lack of an on-screen arrow navigation.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
Yeah, you are right. But you can' tell me the back function doesn't act the same?
JBHotShots.com
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7DII w/Grip, 50D w/Grip, 24-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L, 85/1.8, 50/1.8, Rokinon 8mm FE 3.2, 580EXII 430EX
I have to "refresh" the screen by tapping on it to bring back the X in the upper right.
The bigger problem is that on an iPad there is no way to advance to the next photo in Smugmug mode. You have to tap on each thumbnail. And of course you have to remember which photo you're on (or search for the matching photo) because it isn't highlighted in the thumbnails in any way.
Sigh.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
I think they call this sitting on the horns of a dilemma.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
JBHotShots.com
Facebook
7DII w/Grip, 50D w/Grip, 24-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L, 85/1.8, 50/1.8, Rokinon 8mm FE 3.2, 580EXII 430EX
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
Even with the legacy system, I would have to tell clients to navigate to the ORIGINAL image (with explicit instructions) before hitting the download button. Then, I would tell them how to back track to get to another image and then start over with previous instruction. Since I had removed SmugMug branding, it appeared MY site was hard to navigate. Ticked me off but after awhile I could type the instructions quickly. And my return customers got used to it. Should NOT have to do this. Now, until they "fix" this issue, I will have to give more detailed instructions. I don't blame SmugMug to my customers...it's MY website. So, I just suffer and when asked say I am trying to get it worked out. That way they see I take responsibility for my website and lets them know I take responsibility for their images. I should not have to do that.
They never needed to navigate to the original to download it if you had originals enabled...
Jason Scott Photography | Blog | FB | Twitter | Google+ | Tumblr | Instagram | YouTube
We will almost certainly be adding the navigation mentioned in this thread; we're just looking at how best to design it first.
Thank you very much for the feedback and keep it coming!
Jason Scott Photography | Blog | FB | Twitter | Google+ | Tumblr | Instagram | YouTube
Thanks for the update, that's great news!
a) Thanks for the update! Much appreciated.
b) In the spirit of "keep it coming", it would be awesome if on mobile devices the viewer could advance to the next photo (Smugmug style) by swiping on the screen. Failing that, arrows would work (and would of course be the only viable option for non-mobile devices).
Gary
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
It would be fabulous if the Previous / Next function could simply be up where it used to be, along with photo numbers. That's where the mouse pointer simply ends up, so the viewer doesn't need to move far. And also, it's not intrusive to the photo when it's near a corner. The numbers look ridiculous centered under the main photo the way they are now, as if it's the really important part. Yes, it's needed, but the captions should be instead directly under a photo rather than way down below the numbers.
A lot of these details had already undergone widespread discussion and trial-and-error and deep thought about placement in earlier SmugMug updates. Since that gallery style hasn't changed, there's not much point to simply trying to find some other spot to place navigational tools just for the point of changing something. Stick with the placements that have already been found to work well and that customers are used to, rather than starting from the basic assumption that every single thing needs to change.
Also, most other sites I've been on in past years have a fantastic function available in many gallery styles that's missing from the New SmugMug, at least people's sites I've seen so far. That is the ability of a thumbnail or any smallish photo to enlarge with a hover-over. It helps with navigation too & looks modern & gorgeous. Now that would be a welcome change!!!
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
This is available on Smugmug, but bizarrely only for search results AFAIK. see http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=1889646#post1889646