Need Help with my site

dlarkdlark Registered Users Posts: 1 Beginner grinner
edited August 8, 2013 in Mind Your Own Business
Good day everyone. I am fairly new to SmugMug. I do have a site with them, and could really use some guidance on making my site look better. I am an upcoming photographer, that has taken his hobby to the next level. I do shoots for families, etc, and post them for the people to look at and purchase. I just would like for my site to grab their attention and bring them back. Can anyone help me?
Thanks,
DLark

Comments

  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    dlark wrote: »
    Good day everyone. I am fairly new to SmugMug. I do have a site with them, and could really use some guidance on making my site look better. I am an upcoming photographer, that has taken his hobby to the next level. I do shoots for families, etc, and post them for the people to look at and purchase. I just would like for my site to grab their attention and bring them back. Can anyone help me?
    Thanks,
    DLark

    Might help if we could see your site. :D

    Sam
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2013
    The best help anyone could give you is to make you aware that selling off a website is an extremely poor business model that will guarantee you the lowest possible returns for your time and effort.

    If you want to actually make some worthwhile money from your photography, then you need to look at other business models. The best one of all is to get back together with the people for the showing and do a professional presentation. Professional in being there to guide them, make them aware of things they won't know themselves, make suggestions, upsell and generally help them be as happy with their pics as possible.

    Why this isn't peoples first thought these days amazes me. Seems everyone wants to do no more work than put the pics on the web and hope the people order some.
    It's business suicide.

    A few years back I did a thing with an associate with a coupon type deal. We did a very limited number but they were very profitable. We did the shoot which we put an hour limit on which was more than enough, and did a 2 minute blooper edit at the end before doing the presentation. We didn't stuff around retouching the crap out of every shot or photofiddling it to our idea of perfection, We showed them what we took , got the order, sent the people off for an hour to get coffee and have a break and then most came back to collect the pics to take home or we mailed them.
    We averaged over $500 per session and this was about as cheap and cheerful photography as you could get. On weekends we could get in 4 shoots and showings per day which was more than sufficient for the bookings we had.

    We probably could have shot more sessions a day had we not done the personal sales and just thrown them up on the web but I know we would have been dreaming if we thought our sales average would be anything like what we were getting.

    If getting a good return isn't important and you are just wanting to take pics for the fun of it, then you don't need to worry too much about your site as long as it is functional and has no major bugs.
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited August 5, 2013
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2013
    Angelo wrote: »
    Please have a look at this thread: http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=236371

    .

    WOW!

    I'm not an SM user and as such wasn't aware of the new version but looking at the numerous threads relating to it, it sure hasn't gone smoothly has it? Lots of unhappy and disappointed people.
    Feeling seems to be that they were promised something with the big price hike last year and that hasn't been fulfilled.

    I'm sure the latest problems will motivate a lot of people into new ways of delivering images to their clients and getting away from doing online. Given the trouble people are having, the high site costs, the high percentages taken per sale and the fact that online is so much less effective than on site/ in person sales presentations, it really must make online selling a poor proposition compared to Onsite and in person sales.

    A persons time would be well returned doing a face to face sales presentation especially for something like portrait shoots rather than just fobbing them off to a web site.
    Given the problems with the new version of the site, I'm sure glad I don't sell this way.
    So much hassle for so little return!
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2013
    Glort wrote: »
    WOW!

    I'm not an SM user and as such wasn't aware of the new version but looking at the numerous threads relating to it, it sure hasn't gone smoothly has it? Lots of unhappy and disappointed people.

    More like, a lot of ungrateful computer illiterate whining armchair-quarterback Luddites.

    As both a photographer and a software engineer, the new SM blows me away. It's beautiful, fast, AND they've invented their own CMS (content management system) to make it fully and easily customizable. This is bleeding edge web technology, gracefully implemented. I can now do away with my separate web site and hosting service.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2013
    More like, a lot of ungrateful computer illiterate whining armchair-quarterback Luddites.

    Please note, nowhere in the terms of service is there any requirement for customers to be computer experts, have programing knowledge, or be a software engineer.

    Customers want what they want. Customers express their "gratefulness" by buying a companies offering.

    Yes their are some whiners, but I think the vast majority are frustrated with the new system and expressing many valid concerns. They are expressing this in a variety of tones.

    I believe they were anticipating an easier transition to the new SmugMug as was I.

    While I do believe it will work it's self out, the unhappy truth is that it hasn't gone as smoothly as SmugMug or it's customers have wanted.

    As both a photographer and a software engineer, the new SM blows me away. It's beautiful, fast, AND they've invented their own CMS (content management system) to make it fully and easily customizable. This is bleeding edge web technology, gracefully implemented. I can now do away with my separate web site and hosting service.

    All this is under the hood and while wonderful is not important to the end user. Do you really care about the intricacies of your car's engine? Most non auto enthusiasts are simply happy the get good reliable gas millage and power.

    Sam
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2013
    Sam wrote: »
    Please note, nowhere in the terms of service is there any requirement for customers to be computer experts, have programing knowledge, or be a software engineer.

    That is exactly one of the issues they have addressed. You can now customize your site without coding anything. Being a software engineer, I can just appreciate it on a deeper level. Like how a photographer can see things in an image that non-photographers do not consciously notice.
    Yes their are some whiners, but I think the vast majority are frustrated with the new system and expressing many valid concerns. They are expressing this in a variety of tones.

    I think that the frustrated people are the vocal minority. Satisfied people rarely make noise. There are some valid concerns being raised, and there is a fair amount of whining and reluctance to change just for the sake of being reluctant to change.
    I believe they were anticipating an easier transition to the new SmugMug as was I.

    I can see how someone with a highly customized old site would have trouble migrating to the new site. My old site was not customized very much, and my transition to the new site has been smooth sailing. I don't get what the big deal is, you pick a theme, you customize it and organize it by drag and drop, you choose your feature photos, and bam.
    While I do believe it will work it's self out, the unhappy truth is that it hasn't gone as smoothly as SmugMug or it's customers have wanted.

    I'll bet it is going exactly as smoothly as SM anticipated.
    All this is under the hood and while wonderful is not important to the end user.

    No, this is all user-facing. A CMS is basically a website designer/editor for the non-technical, and that's what they built. I just appreciate the fact that they rolled their own CMS.
    Do you really care about the intricacies of your car's engine?

    Absolutely. My car has the best four-stroke internal combustion engine architecture ever invented - the inline 6. It has perfect primary and secondary balance.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2013
    Jack,

    Your last post was more measured.

    Now since you said your happy with your new site I had to go visit.

    Here are my observations. Not trying to be critical or cynical, just what I see.

    1. Your home page at http://www.jmphotocraft.com/ is on a black background and only takes up about 25 percent of my screen. Too small and located at the top of my screen.

    2. When I visit the gallery page and view a gallery I can return to the main gallery page but can't get back to your home page.

    When clicking on the home icon all I get is: http://jmphotocraft.smugmug.com/

    3. While not unique to your site, I really don't like the huge window that pops when activating the slideshow feature forcing to approve or deny full screen.

    I think there a few bugs to be worked out. :D

    Sam
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2013
    More like, a lot of ungrateful computer illiterate whining armchair-quarterback Luddites.

    As both a photographer and a software engineer, the new SM blows me away. It's beautiful, fast, AND they've invented their own CMS (content management system) to make it fully and easily customizable. This is bleeding edge web technology, gracefully implemented. I can now do away with my separate web site and hosting service.

    Geez JM, your reply sounds like one from the SM care takers.
    The responses from 10 different managers sound like they were all written by the same person. Clearly they get educated and groomed pretty well as to how to deal with their clients. Seems to follow a real formula as well.

    There is one thing that is very obvious to me, if their clients are " ungrateful computer illiterate whining armchair-quarterback Luddites" they have a ship load of them as clients and as such, I would think they would do well to take notice of them if they don't want their business to go down the drain faster than last nights washing up water.

    I don't know what Sm's client base is ( although I'll bet it's significantly shrunk in the last 18 months) but to me it seems there are way too many and long time clients expressing deep concerns and frustration for them to just be dismissing them ( as they do seem to be) in the way they are.

    Some of the replies I read from the SM managers to peoples legitimate and honest concerns would have me knocking their teeth out if they had the stupidity to be so condescending to my face.
    To me it's like they have all the responses pre written the managers just have to take them off the shelf, fill in the blanks, hit the reply button then forget about it.
    It seems many of their customers think the same thing.

    I honestly don't understand what the attraction is with these type of sites and guess I never will.
    Looking at the site and sites hosted there, I just can't see what the big deal is and what you can get there that you can't get at least the majority of with something free like Jalbum or other online services that are cheaper.

    I read a while back where the SM owner said they couldn't continue at the current price level, I guess it remains to be seen if they can survive at the new price and customer satisfaction level?
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    Sam wrote: »
    Now since you said your happy with your new site I had to go visit.

    Thanks for the feedback. www.jmphotocraft.com will be going away, and that URL will be pointed to jmphotocraft.smugmug.com. That will address your points 1 and 2. The fullscreen slideshow is a SM feature beyond my control, and that is pretty standard behavior when a website wants to go fullscreen - it has to ask your permission once, and then it won't again unless you clear cookies. Anyway, the slideshow is pretty awesome. Much better than the old one.

    Glort, SM has thousands of customers. Keep in mind you are extrapolating from the opinions of a few dozen. The redesign is targeted to both the computer savvy and the not-so-savvy. The computerphobes and anti-change folks were going to hate it no matter what.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • chrisjohnsonchrisjohnson Registered Users Posts: 772 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    There are very few complaints as far as I can see, especially considering the ambition of new Smugmug to launch a complete CMS to a user base that has been rolling its own code for a while. My own little site transitioned very quickly with no hassle and now looks much better than it did before.

    Think Glort you are undervaluing Smugmug as a safe place to keep images. For me it is worth what I pay to have my photos stored in the cloud in a reliable way, never mind the other possibilities they offer me.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    There are very few complaints as far as I can see, especially considering the ambition of new Smugmug to launch a complete CMS to a user base that has been rolling its own code for a while. My own little site transitioned very quickly with no hassle and now looks much better than it did before.

    Think Glort you are undervaluing Smugmug as a safe place to keep images. For me it is worth what I pay to have my photos stored in the cloud in a reliable way, never mind the other possibilities they offer me.

    I tried to go to your home page and got zip.......zero.......nada.

    Sam
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    Glort wrote: »
    Geez JM, your reply sounds like one from the SM care takers.
    The responses from 10 different managers sound like they were all written by the same person. Clearly they get educated and groomed pretty well as to how to deal with their clients. Seems to follow a real formula as well.

    Not sure where your getting this.
    There is one thing that is very obvious to me, if their clients are " ungrateful computer illiterate whining armchair-quarterback Luddites" they have a ship load of them as clients and as such, I would think they would do well to take notice of them if they don't want their business to go down the drain faster than last nights washing up water.

    I tend to agree with this except you can bet your pet kangaroo they are paying attention and working their fanny's off. Aussies wash?
    I don't know what Sm's client base is ( although I'll bet it's significantly shrunk in the last 18 months) but to me it seems there are way too many and long time clients expressing deep concerns and frustration for them to just be dismissing them ( as they do seem to be) in the way they are.

    I am not so sure their base is shrinking, but yes some long time users are having trouble with the transition and are being vocal about it, but I don't see SmugMug as being dismissive.
    Some of the replies I read from the SM managers to peoples legitimate and honest concerns would have me knocking their teeth out if they had the stupidity to be so condescending to my face.
    To me it's like they have all the responses pre written the managers just have to take them off the shelf, fill in the blanks, hit the reply button then forget about it.
    It seems many of their customers think the same thing.

    I haven't read anything like that, and I have always been treated with respect even when I have had great difficulty in the past with very simple code. I have, like most of us, dealt with a lot of customer service folks and I really do believe SmugMug has a darn good crew.
    I honestly don't understand what the attraction is with these type of sites and guess I never will. Looking at the site and sites hosted there, I just can't see what the big deal is and what you can get there that you can't get at least the majority of with something free like Jalbum or other online services that are cheaper.

    Glort you are the master at wham bam print on the cheapest paper with the cheapest ink on site and be on your way. While I do understand that business model, and yes it does make sense, not everyone has indentured servants (children) to make it happen. Here in the USA having a website is pretty much mandatory to demonstrate credibility, and since photography is a visual thing allows us to show potential clients our photography. A nice professional website is an aid to this. It is not the end all bee all.
    I read a while back where the SM owner said they couldn't continue at the current price level, I guess it remains to be seen if they can survive at the new price and customer satisfaction level?

    Not everyone can justify the expense of a website, but SmugMug does offer less expensive plans. When the price increase hit I did my due diligence and researched other online photo hosting sites and I couldn't find a better alternative at the new higher price point.

    Sam
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    Exactly the kind of post I'd expect from you Sam.
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    I'll say this for SM, they certainly have their disciples.
    I guess thats the payoff for the amount of self promotion they put into telling everyone how great they are.
    Even in the meta data of clients pics it seems.

    Only SM management know what the level of contentment or discontentment among their clients is and whatever it may be, we'd only be told one thing anyway.

    Lets hope the disenchanted customers are as few as they ( and the choir members) say.
    It will be pretty obvious in the fullness of time what the story really is one way or the other.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    don't get all tin-foil hat on us now...
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    Glort wrote: »
    Exactly the kind of post I'd expect from you Sam.

    Not sure I understand.

    I have supported SmugMug that's true, but I have been clear on other posts that the transition has been less than smooth. I have put off any further attempts to create a new site for a few days, weeks or months. I am among the baffled and bewildered, but I do believe SmugMug will sort it out.

    Sam
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    don't get all tin-foil hat on us now...

    Maybe I'm slow today but I don't get this ether.

    Tin-foil protective head gear has been a standard for a very long time and has been proven to be effective, There have been many scientific studies done by the US government as well as MIT, but alas the fabrication and use has been misunderstood and marginalized into the realm of the crazies.

    Currently the sun is about to flip it's magnetic north and south poles. This will have an effect on the entire solar system, and has effected mankind in the past. Any protection offered should be considered.

    Sam
  • chrisjohnsonchrisjohnson Registered Users Posts: 772 Major grins
    edited August 7, 2013
    Thanks Sam.

    I had the wrong url in my Dgrin profile. I corrected to www.chrisjohnsonnl.smugmug.com
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    Sam wrote: »
    Not sure I understand.

    Sam

    That doesn't surprise me either.

    If you don't understand a simple, brief sentence, you're sure not going to be able to comprehend an explanation that would require multiple sentences and paragraphs.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    Come on Glort, your "exactly the kind of post" post was ambiguous. I enjoy Sam's posts.

    You can imagine that SM is a greedy corporation fooling photographers into buying a service they don't really need, and providing indifferent customer service, but you would be wrong. It is a mom-n-pop company run by photographers with responsive and excellent customer service. Furthermore, SM is:
    1. a full website hosting service with custom content management system
    2. devoid of advertising or spam
    3. a photo gallery service
    4. an unlimited cloud image archive service
    5. an online storefront and order fulfillment service
    6. a payment clearing house with direct deposit and tax handling
    7. a robust online business solution
    And probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

    $40 a year gets you 1-4. That right there is worth it for anyone who enjoys using a camera. Also 5, in that people can buy prints of your photos, but you can't set prices or make money directly from SM.

    $60 a year gets you that, plus more customization and themes, and the ability to use your own URL and to disable right-clicks. A clever part-timer could actually run their side-business at this level, assuming they get paid up front.

    $150 a year gets you 1-6 with the ability to set your own prices and have SM pay you the profit as a 1099 employee (i.e., a contractor). A part-timer could easily run their side business at this level.

    $300 a year gets you all 7, including coupons, packages, multiple pricelists, assistant access, proof delay, private labeling, and some other stuff.

    Yeah, a very computer-savvy individual could roll their own with JAlbum, HTML skills or Wordpress, a hosting service, google cart or paypal, a printer and ink and the post office or an online print service, a rotating array of backup hard drives or an online archive service, and the time and effort to coordinate it all and do the accounting. Hats off to you if you can. I think SmugMug is worth it.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    OP, the links you've been given should get you up and running so you can tweak the site to a look you like.

    Thanks for your posts, Jack. I can only agree wholeheartedly - I've been kind of amazed by how abusive people have been about the new service. I also noticed that many of those folks are the same ones who complained about the price hike by demanding an updated interface to go with it, so I have to conclude they're never going to be happy with anything. I now just ignore the snide comments and nonsense and find posts with actual content.

    FWIW, I'm "just" an end-user without any real technical know-how. Sure, I find my way around the web-site-creation skills I need to achieve the tasks I need to do (eg learning how to point a domain at a blog, how to set up wordpress etc etc), but although I"d consider myself computer-literate, I have no particular coding or designing expertise. I just migrated my smug site yesterday, and the new system is GREAT. Looks much better, and works rather like wordpress/blogspot as far as getting a theme/customisations. I'll probably tweak it - and my blog - to get the uniform look I want between them, but it was as painless as these things can be.

    Btw, no "disciple" of smugmug - I actually *won* my account in the Challenges (four years worth!) and it's only in the last few months that I've had to pay for it myself. Despite the price hike and the (at the time) pretty basic and out-of-date built-in themes, I decided to leave things as they are and see what happened; sure glad I did, as the new version is pretty much exactly what I've wanted. Looks great and easy to manipulate. Glitches? Of course, but I have yet to do a major modification on a website/blog/gallery which DIDN'T have a few things to go back and tweak. Nature of the beast............
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    Glort wrote: »
    That doesn't surprise me either.

    If you don't understand a simple, brief sentence, you're sure not going to be able to comprehend an explanation that would require multiple sentences and paragraphs.

    No so fast my friend from the upside down world of witches and tornadoes. Perhaps if one were to access
    their cognitive acuity one could well deduce I have engendered the worlds shortest post from the Glort.

    Sam :D
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    Furthermore, I think any similar service which costs less than SmugMug is most likely one, some, or all of these things:
    • Small/new enough that they have low overhead and/or are buying business. These companies will either fold or raise prices eventually. SM went through this phase.
    • Providing a lower level of service
    • Cutting corners
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited August 8, 2013
    Gotta love how you guys chased off the OP. Hopefully, he got his answer.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    ian408 wrote: »
    Gotta love how you guys chased off the OP. Hopefully, he got his answer.

    It appears the OP joined, posted and hasn't been back since. Hard to chase off anyone thats not there.


    In any case, the message he would get is that the users of SM are very happy overall and support the site loyally. Those that don't are a whingeing minority.

    As such it would seem SM works very well and the new upgrades are loved by all.
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited August 8, 2013
    Glort wrote: »
    It appears the OP joined, posted and hasn't been back since. Hard to chase off anyone thats not there.


    In any case, the message he would get is that the users of SM are very happy overall and support the site loyally. Those that don't are a whingeing minority.

    As such it would seem SM works very well and the new upgrades are loved by all.

    Well, no one seems to have offered much in the way of help. Have they?
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    We are still waiting for an answer to Sam's question in post #2.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2013
    We are still waiting for an answer to Sam's question in post #2.

    ian408,

    Yes, we can't really intelligently respond to a general question tantamount to "are we there yet"
    when we have no idea where we are or where we are going.

    In the meantime we have been entertaining ourselves. :D

    Sam
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited August 8, 2013
    Sam wrote: »
    ian408,

    Yes, we can't really intelligently respond to a general question tantamount to "are we there yet"
    when we have no idea where we are or where we are going.

    In the meantime we have been entertaining ourselves. :D

    Sam

    No, you're right. But there are plenty of other threads you could have taken your discussion to. deal.gif
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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