Really???
JamesGPhoto
Registered Users Posts: 150 Major grins
They just launched! There WILL be bugs and flaws.....its the nature of launching something NEW!!! Give everyone a breakm they are working overtime answering questions and tweaking things...Stop being angry, and have patience!! Once all the kinks are worked out, I'm sure that everything will be beautiful.
I'm SHOCKED at how many people are upset! People at Smugmug are human.....relax and soak up the new GREATNESS!!!
I'm SHOCKED at how many people are upset! People at Smugmug are human.....relax and soak up the new GREATNESS!!!
James Geiger M. Ed.
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt
http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt
http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
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Sure, James, there will be some bugs and flaws, but really?? This many? And with so many very basic parts? And even for people who haven't hit "Preview"? I think all the frustration is over the fact that SmugMug could've done much better by its paying customers to just wait a bit until the thing was truly ready. More things evidently should've been tested by casual viewers, not so many techies & site-owners. Then a bunch of these huge problems that need fixing / changing wouldn't have been foisted on thousands of paying site-owners who are suddenly left with messes they have to tackle in the middle of work they're supposed to be fulfilling for their own clients.
It's really not OK that so many people are experiencing so many basic problems that they can't even get to the point of having a functional site, and you can't expect people to be grateful for these problems, even though most would probably be very understanding of small issues. All the disappearing galleries & photos & stuff, the lack of identifying words... these things mean that way too many people are forced to come looking for help, when really only a fraction of Smug site-owners should have to do that this early in the game. Because if that kind of traffic was expected, I believe they'd have been better prepared for it. It's swamped because stuff isn't working, & that's not site-owners' faults.
The other thing that I see is driving people mad is how many parts of this new site SmugMug asked for feedback about, and got it, but then chose to disregard it!! Just read back into that "Sneak Preview" forum that went on for 2 years, & look at all the site-owners begging that functionality not get lost. That navigation remain clear...etc. etc. etc. It's maddening when you've been asked for feedback & they still insist that the minimalist look is still better for everyone and don't care if your own clients and viewers are the ones left in the dust by it. I think people here would have loads of patience, if they really trusted that SmugMug even has the intention of fixing some of the things that are a pain. But when they know they already gave SmugMug their opinions about it & said clearly "let's not lose this" and it was ignored, it seems as if the intention is not even there, because why would the site even roll out without... [ETA: seeing the date you joined also prompts me to remind you that lots of the site owners who are frustrated have spent years working on their sites to get them just the way they wanted. And many have paid thousands for customizations. That should give you some perspective to see how they feel when suddenly they have something that either doesn't work right, or doesn't work for [B]them[/B], or both. It's not all that trivial, especially when they were promised that their Legacy site would at least remain intact while they "played", and then it didn't!]
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
To quote Seth Myers - "Really? I mean really?!"
People are angry because this release has broken many peoples sites and not through any fault of theirs. If every site was just a hobby site, sure people can wait around while things get sorted out, but many here don't have that luxury.
There are 3 broad categories of people posting:
1) Those whose Legacy sites have been mangled even though they never unveiled and have entire galleries missing - Every right to be as pissed and angry as they have been on the forums
2) Those who have come to learn that the New SmugMug while promising tons of customization, takes away far more in the way of customization and features from what was previously possible ...primarily due to removing support for javascript, substandard gallery browsing features, issues with captions, etc. Lots of steps backwards and while some of it will hopefully be fixed, the lack of javascript support is going to severely hamper many of the most vocal and dedicated smugmuggers who relied on it to enhance the functionality of their sites - Again, every right to be angry. You never expect a new, improved product to take away useful and functional features only to replace them with similar features of lower quality (UI for image browsing), or no replacement at all (javascript)
3) Those who tested and unveiled the site and are finding smaller bugs that need to be ironed out - No need for being irate and to be frank, I don't see these people being irate. Most are just posting here to make sure it has been noted and will be addressed. The official means of communication with support are completely borked thanks to their support system being completely overwhelmed at the moment.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Have to agree. It was just the same when FLICKR had their major revamp back in June. Lots of moans and many users left (supposedly), but actually the new FLICKR is better (apart from the horrid front page which I have managed to bypass). Then Adobe had a go by making Photoshop CS a leased product under Creative Cloud - but again, it works fine and really doesn't cost much more in total.
People just don't like change.
It's a great word, but it seems to mean different things... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/borked?s=t and... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=borked I prefer the second version, I think
This all reminds me of another BIG web site management corporation working in the fields of e-commerce. They programmed 2-3 years to release a new user interface (lots of drag & drop and lots of functionalities), beta-tested it 'thoroughly' and then released it to their tens and tens of thousands of customers, owners of professional e-commerce web sites.
However, from day 1 it looked like the release was full of bugs, incompatibilities with the old UI and their customers were extremely emotional and full of drama, venting their dismay for the unacceptable bugs and lack of features.
People (customers) were really, really furious and insulting the company and their programmers and helpdesk, forgetting these people are human beings too and programming while taking into account lots of platforms and hardware is not easy at all.
No doubt, this project turned out to be a nightmare for the company, but they were very strong in communicating to their customers via their forums and by blog updates. They ironed out all the bugs in a couple of months and added new features almost weekly since ironing out the bugs.
The result: only happy customers in the end who are relieved and happy that the new interface was launched after all (and after much anticipation also).
People (ALL people) should learn to control their emotions as much as possible (not easy at all, but trying hard is the way to go) and just make their point in a reasonable way.
I'm fortunate to have been on the side of the customer and have experience as well on how it goes working with programmers and helpdesks. So, I do understand both points of view and emotions very well.
I have a déjà vu here because it looks like SM is going through an identical pattern. A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor!
I'm also convinced that after this initial storm, people will be happy with the way SM evolves and the way SM will release more additions and updates to our benefit.
Luc
I have no problems with change but when all of my hard work is screwed up and will take hours to correct once Smugmug corrects the issues on their end then yes I'm pissed. I have a right to be so it isn't about not liking change.
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Bork! Bork! Bork!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
i seem to remember you being publicly at war with smugmug on this forum a few months back and talking of leaving and you wasnt happy blah blah blah etc etc and you was leaving for another host, not so patient then dude
That's true. But although all the other companies out there seem to be going down the same route (simplified layout, pretty pictures at a large scale, little text, less functionality) they are mostly doing it to fit in with the mass of people who want something simple and uncomplicated. And the reason they are chasing that market is it equates to more income (especially from ads). I'm not saying Smug are doing that, but it is part of a general dumbing-down trend.
If you don't like it, and you have more exacting needs (such as a business) you really ought to have a professional site tailored to your needs. You can do exactly as you wish by that method.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." (Einstein)
It is a pretty sharp departure from their approach so far. They are a business, they want to make more money, that's fine. But it shouldn't be at the expense of the needs of these professionals. It is really terrible to put so many customers through so much trouble by rushing the release of the new SmugMug. If the Sandbox actually worked and you could try out the new SmugMug at your own pace (as was the original intent), then that would be great. But to have people with irate customers complaining about the inability to access their photographs and galleries and to mess up the structure and organization of the entire site - something that some have spent hours upon hours on, is just very wrong and unfortunate. Obviously it was not intentional, but these customers are completely justified in being angry about the situation.
If you take an overall look at the release, you'll notice that some of the key things that professional photographers care about and have been asking about have remained the same. The entire e-commerce component is exactly the same. It was not the most straightforward system, and many have been asking for simplifications to it as they have customers providing feedback about lost sales because they couldn't figure out how to place an order and got frustrated. Yet, nothing has changed on that front.
Being able to browse images easily and having an easily accessible UI is critical for professionals (frankly, it is critical for everyone, but a some people seem to prefer swanky things over functionality) because they have a wide range of clients with various levels of tech savvyness. Yet, the new UI while looking great is far less functional than the legacy SmugMug in these areas. And for all the talk of customizability, none of the customization options can actually enable you to fix these issues and achieve parity with the legacy SmugMug UI.
This overhaul has been in the works for a long time, and people have been providing feedback for a while on the forums, yet a lot of that was never incorporated at all, and most of the focus of this release has been purely on aesthetics and themes, to compete with sites like Flickr while at the same time taking away useful features that many here cared about in the legacy SmugMug. I'm sure SmugMug will still remain successful and this update will probably bring a lot of new customers to them as well, but it will unnecessarily drive away a lot of existing professional customers...and that is unnecessary because SmugMug could have kept their original client base while also increasing the appeal to new users if they had gone about the upgrade and selecting the feature set for the new SmugMug differently.
Anna,
As a reminder, you do not need to use the new SmugMug. We are not forcing you to use it now. Please continue to use Legacy SmugMug. Come back in a couple months and give it a try, and hopefully all the issues you are having won't be a problem.
Michael
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Given this information, is it not valid to be upset about the situation? If we knew that we could stay with Legacy Smugmug long term without worrying about being forced to "upgrade" to the new SmugMug, a lot of us who have issues with the new version would be a lot happier. But at the moment, it really doesn't seem to be the case. Sure, it'll keep us happy for now to stay in Legacy mode, but we're going to have to plan on alternative solutions for our sites given the knowledge that won't be able to retain Legacy SmugMug permanently.
Technically that's true, SM is not forcing anyone to use the new version today, but as many of us experienced, our legacy sites were getting messed up and our clients were not able to access their images.
Of course we had the choice to keep the messed up old site, or make the switch.
Sorry, but a broken site doesn't leave much of a choice.
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Thanks for laying out your feedback in a thoughtful manner. I would like to emphasize that we have built the New SmugMug on such a frame that applying bug fixes and new features can be accomplished much quicker. So while shopping cart was not updated with this release, it WILL be, and it will be what alot of our clients are asking for. We had to get the base laid, now we can really start building out more of the customer requested features.
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Yes that is 100% true, Legacy SmugMug will eventually cease to exist. That is NOT happening now, nor soon. I was simply replying to Anna Lisa, who insists she hates everything about the New SmugMug. So instead of allowing her to keep getting frustrated, I simply suggested she forget about the New SmugMug for now, continue to work via the Legacy site, and to revisit the new SmugMug in a couple months. I don't think that was an unreasonable request.
Michael
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All great points. We understand the UI isn't what everyone wanted, but in countless usability tests, the basic functions you see today shook out. Of course, this will always be evolving. I do hope it eventually evolves into what fits your needs.
Michael
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All of that is great but that doesn't really help those of us who have chosen to rely on SM for our business websites today. This isn't like a small outage, where it might last a few hours. That's totally understandable and part of being on the internet.
If the sandbox would have worked without messing up our sites, the complaints would have been few and far between.
If we weren't told that our sites were being messed up because of what we were doing, the complaints would have been less angry.
I know that it's not any of the hero's faults that this is as messed up as it is, but for days we were told that this was going to be smooth and easy. It's been anything but for a lot of us.
My new site is working and tolerable. Yes I am still waiting on some important details to be worked out, but at least there aren't as many angry clients calling today, so life is getting better.
I'm still not ready to proclaim that this new version is better, but I'm willing to give it an honest chance.
We all know that it is policy to never share what's coming and when, but there are some important features that a lot of us have relied upon that need to be discussed sooner rather than later.
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Having said that, there aren't any guarantees that the things bothering folks about the new SmugMug will definitely be addressed. What is certain though, is eventually, the Legacy SmugMug that they know and love will not be supported. That definitiveness combined with the complete lack of certainty and assurance that certain gripes a user has with the new smugmug will indeed be addressed just makes it very hard to envision sticking around with SmugMug when renewal time comes around. I guess its human psychology, but why would someone still renew when what they want will be going away, and what they have to accept is not what they want and they have no guarantee that it will eventually improve and address all their concerns.
We could ride it out in Legacy mode till the new SmugMug improves to a point that we are willing to transition, but what if it doesn't get to a point that we're satisfied with and we have to move away from Legacy mode? Aren't we forced to plan ahead and explore other options so we have a fall back if the new SmugMug never ends up having the features some of us care about that are currently in Legacy mode?
1. There will be bugs. Not everything gets caught, especially with so many different use cases and almost endless customizations, custom code, etc...
2. Customization will be a lot different. So old patterns don't work in the new enviroment. That was made clear.
3. The look will be totally different than the old SM.
4. The New SM will not have every feature request that was every mentioned or desired.
5. Certain things will go away in favor of a cleaner design - its more about the pictures, less about every little doodad option/button.
Given these known factors you will have four main groups:
I. People who love the new SM over the older version
II. People who like many aspect of the new SM but still wish for 'other' features
III. People who would love SM if they could figure it out and/or get their issues resolved
IV. People who can't stand the new product and will most likely leave
IMO, the vast majority fall into the first category of which I'm apart. Two and three are next. With far fewer in the last category. Legacy users are a mixed bag for a number of reasons mostly related to still struggling with change. Overall this is a huge success for SM and many more new users will be added, more than ever before. But will some leave? Of course.
For those who plan on sticking around try to excercise a little patience and courtesy when addressing your particular issues. Once resolved you don't want to feel like the back side of a donkey. Of course there will be complaints. That's the nature of customer service during such big events. The heros are working fast and furious to fix newly discovered bugs I'm sure. Other things like design, layout, extra feature requests, etc... will have to wait for another day IMO.
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i think you should have pointed that out at the unveil or better still not unveiled yet and held off a few more months until you had built in the features. The way have gone about it has just annoyed many many pro customers of yours including myself after months of telling us to wait it will all be worth it and now your telling us to wait again.
Dont get me wrong i love smugmug and do not want to leave but you must understand people who use it to make a living can not just plod on with Legacy without at least having a ETA on when it will be cut all together.
I don't really understand your need to drive the bandwagon, but more power to you. I've only seen 1 person leave in the last few days, and haven't seen anyone else talking about it. Some of us who have complained have been long time customers and are sticking with this upgrade.
Now that doesn't mean we have to jump on the "happy" bandwagon just because SM chose to dumb down the system to make it easier for the masses.
Will this system turn out to be better? Perhaps, only time will tell.
That doesn't mean that we have to enjoy losing valuable customizing tools that were once available.
Maybe new and better tools will be released one day, but that doesn't exactly help us today.
Most of us have come here to find solutions to the problems that we are now engaged with.
A lot of us have come here to discuss our displeasure with the bugs that were caused by this upgrade and to see if anything can be done to fix it.
Maybe if all of us had very simple websites with a dozen galleries these issues wouldn't have such an impact on us.
Maybe if your clients were calling you because they couldn't access their images you might feel a little different.
I've been a huge supporter of SM for 6 years, but that doesn't mean that I have to drink the Kool Aid.
I've never said that I was leaving, and don't have any plans to do so. Yes, I'm unhappy that the bugs in my legacy site didn't really leave me a choice in upgrading, but I'll deal with this upgrade the best that I can and be as patient as possible for solutions. However, that doesn't not mean that I will not voice my concerns over what is important.
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In these threads I see a lot more ranting than I do people actually looking for legitimate solutions. And I guess you have to vent somewhere, right? So that's fine. And you can also complain about others not agreeing with your rants. That also gets old pretty quick. But if you really want problems resolved I would focus more on that vs. blaming, complaining, chastising, etc... That doesn't really go very far with regards to addressing issues whether self induced through lack of understanding a new system or a valid bug.
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Sure, of course...even though I work for SmugMug and love SmugMug with all of my heart, in the end, I am a photographer, first and foremost. I want my fellow photographers to have a solution that works for them. While I like to think in my head that we ARE the perfect solution for 100% of photographers, I know we aren't. No one is. We all have different needs and wants. I hope that when you do make the leap over to the New SmugMug, it will be the solution that works best for you.
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I am not telling you to wait again at all. You have three options right now. Use Legacy only. Use Legacy while building our new site. Build your site and unveil to the new SmugMug.
Legacy SmugMug is not going away anytime soon, and you will be given PLENTY of notice before it does. So staying on Legacy and waiting until New SmugMug fits your needs is a possibility.
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