Looking for a straight forward answer, please

mishenka

Can someone from SmugMug executives or staff have decency to openly clarify the situation with "full customization", please? Mr. Chris MacAskill - I get it you are a very busy man, but at other times you seem to be very close to the public, to regular customers. Mr. Michael Bonocore - I am sure you are reading this post. I do respectfully request a straight forward answer, please:

1) Is Javascript not part of a "full customization" in the new SmugMug design anymore?
2) How long will "old" smugmug engine exist - the one that supports full customization: html, css, javascript?

If you care about one customer opinion, then in short I love the graphics and customization options on the new, template-based engine of SmugMug. I believe it will make a lot of customers happy and less dependent on software professionals for customization. On the other hand, SmugMug (judging by the absence of full customization at the present moment) just withdrew itself from a true, custom photo hosting providers niche and joined a rank of countless photo template-based website hosting providers. Don't get me wrong - it is my professional opinion that your template based engine is awesome and very competitive. But it is not the service you were known and respected for.

macromeister

I find it really weird that people assume that large companies exist purely to provide what individuals want and have got used to. I always thought that companies offered, in return for money, goods and services that they perceive will sell. Their bottom line is an account book bottom line - they want to make money.

So if a company no longer offers what you want/need what do you do? You can get upset that the cosy informal arrangement that you thought existed no longer exists, or you can go elsewhere. Isn't that one of the good things about western democratic-based capitalism and the free market? I would rather have that than live under a socialist based economy where you have to buy your bread from the state bread shop

I am in the process of changing my car for a new one. I had to switch manufacturer after 20 years because they no longer make an estate (station wagon) version, but have switched to a cross-over/SUV style. I was 'upset', but actually being forced to look elsewhere resulted in me getting a better car for less money. I win!

I think the new SM is excellent. My site looks better, it's much easier to modify, and the interface is very intuitive. I always hated those CSS code hacks. I'd rather spend my time making good photography than faffing around with code (I had enough of that when I used to be a software engineer on IBM main-frame systems). And I suspect that one of the driving forces for these changes to create a new SM was the desire to reduce what must have been a heavy support commitment for all the add-on stuff on legacy SM.

I'm rambling a bit, but my point should be clear - if you don't like something that SM is now offering (or no longer offering) then ask them to alter it, and if they won't or can't then you can go elsewhere if you choose to. But no-one has any rights to tell SM, or Adobe, or FLICKR what they should be doing. That last remark was not specifically addressed to you, but there has been a lot of ranting and moaning on this forum in the past few days. This is not a private club, it's a business, just like any other.

jbags

It's all well and good say if you don't like it go elsewhere but in my case I have only just renewed my SM for another 12 months.
The product that I paid for now no longer exists due to the upgrade, I am well within my rights to demand a the functionality that SM offered at the time of renewal.
Had I known that these changes were coming, I would have changed hosts.

To use the car analogy, it's like paying for the V8 but when you pick up the car it's only a 4 cylinder.

macromeister

jbags wrote: »

It's all well and good say if you don't like it go elsewhere but in my case I have only just renewed my SM for another 12 months.
The product that I paid for now no longer exists due to the upgrade, I am well within my rights to demand a the functionality that SM offered at the time of renewal.
Had I known that these changes were coming, I would have changed hosts.

To use the car analogy, it's like paying for the V8 but when you pick up the car it's only a 4 cylinder.

Rights are a formal statement that you are entitled to something, and they often (but not always) have a legal backing. If at the time of renewing your SM contract it was explicitly stated that 'there will be no major changes to the current system for the duration of the contract' then I'd say you have a right to expect that. But it didn't say that, did it?

My new Seat Ibiza ST Tourer is 4 cylinders:D

Cameron

jbags wrote: »

It's all well and good say if you don't like it go elsewhere but in my case I have only just renewed my SM for another 12 months.
The product that I paid for now no longer exists due to the upgrade, I am well within my rights to demand a the functionality that SM offered at the time of renewal.
Had I known that these changes were coming, I would have changed hosts.

To use the car analogy, it's like paying for the V8 but when you pick up the car it's only a 4 cylinder.

Have you contacted the help desk directly? They have stated in other threads that they do offer pro-rated refunds in some cases if the renewal was very recent (? within 30 days).

I completely understand why you are frustrated, but stating that you're within your rights to demand something is silly - you're entitled to what is outlined in the terms of service. That's the contract. Nobody is asking you to like it, but SmugMug has the right to change their service as they see fit.

jfriend

jbags wrote: »

It's all well and good say if you don't like it go elsewhere but in my case I have only just renewed my SM for another 12 months.
The product that I paid for now no longer exists due to the upgrade, I am well within my rights to demand a the functionality that SM offered at the time of renewal.
Had I known that these changes were coming, I would have changed hosts.

To use the car analogy, it's like paying for the V8 but when you pick up the car it's only a 4 cylinder.

To be technically correct, the site you paid for is still there. You don't have to convert to the new format right now. I'm staying with the legacy site for now because there are missing features in the new format that I can't live without (like Javascript customization support). Now, SM is playing a little loose with the legacy format by not telling us how long we can stay there, but it's certainly for awhile.

Matthew Saville

Michael, I'm only a moderator and not an official help desk "hero", but I've been a SmugMug user for almost 10 years now. Here's my un-official assessment of the situation:

1.) Chris MacAskill posted his assessment of the Javascript situation- basically, if there is something that you need to do with javascript asap, let them know what it is and there is a good chance they can implement the same feature / customization without having to use Javascript. In the long run, however, it did sound as if bringing back Javascript was an option, but they're not ready to promise it at this time.

2.) The "legacy" site design will probably be around for long enough that complete customization will be possible again using the new interface.

Since neither of these above answers truly satisfy your underlying query regarding "full customization", I'll take a whack at that as well: The current level of customization available in the new interface is still very near to "full", it's just that the tools have changed very dramatically. Thus it will probably take a lot of time to acclimate and figure out how to do everything you want to do. It may be frustrating as a subscriber to be forced to re-learn an interface from scratch, however if you look around you will realize that this is the norm for all of technology. New and better things will always come with a learning curve.

If there is a visual effect or function that is not currently possible, they'll work very hard to bring it to fruition if you ask them to.

Just my un-official opinion,
=Matt=

jbags

Ok, my use of language was probably too strong, however there has been no solid indication that they will be restoring all of the legacy functionality. So where does that leave its customers?

macromeister

Matthew Saville wrote: »

... it's just that the tools have changed very dramatically. Thus it will probably take a lot of time to acclimate and figure out how to do everything you want to do. It may be frustrating as a subscriber to be forced to re-learn an interface from scratch, however if you look around you will realize that this is the norm for all of technology. New and better things will always come with a learning curve.

When I logged on the other day and gave myself some time to redo my site I was, at first, a bit daunted by the new methods of customisation. But once i got the hang of how it works I have found it to be very easy to use and extremely effective. I was never a big fan of legacy, with all those bolt-ons and fixes.

You are quite right to point out that new things need adjustment and learning. It can sometimes be difficult, or may come at the wrong time for you, but in the end we nearly always gain.

mbonocore

jbags wrote: »

It's all well and good say if you don't like it go elsewhere but in my case I have only just renewed my SM for another 12 months.
The product that I paid for now no longer exists due to the upgrade, I am well within my rights to demand a the functionality that SM offered at the time of renewal.
Had I known that these changes were coming, I would have changed hosts.

To use the car analogy, it's like paying for the V8 but when you pick up the car it's only a 4 cylinder.

Actually, you are more than free to use Legacy right now. That is the service you paid for, and we have not taken that away from you.

mbonocore

By the way Michael,

I will respond when I am not helping with Support issues.

Thanks

Michael

mishenka

mbonocore wrote: »

By the way Michael,

I will respond when I am not helping with Support issues.

Thanks

Michael

But I thought that you must respond to my questions immediately no later than 5 seconds after I post them?! Am I not the one and only customer that you are here to support?

Just kidding, Michael. Of course I realize how busy you are with truly more important issues. I do appreciate you responding to my questions. You are absolutely correct, and I know and understand that SmugMug did NOT take away what I have paid for. Of course I see that current "old" SM is still functioning. My concern, and my question was directed exactly at this area- I want to know, from the official channels, how long it will be supported. I basically want to know (seeing all the drastic and truly beautiful and amazingly good changes that just rolled out in the new release of SM) if what I paid for will exist until the end of my paid contract with SmugMug. A pure, straight forward, simple business question.

paulbrock

mishenka wrote: »

Can someone from SmugMug executives or staff have decency to openly clarify the situation with "full customization", please?

The splash page of smugmug now proudly proclaims "100% Customizable - Engage your inner control freak and sculpt every detail of your design." www.smugmug.com

jfriend

mbonocore wrote: »

Actually, you are more than free to use Legacy right now. That is the service you paid for, and we have not taken that away from you.

For how long will legacy remain? I cannot switch to the new SM because of the lack of JS customizations. I need to implement new customizations, but have no desire to do so if they will be obsoleted in the next 6 months. If that's the case, I'd rather invest in a new site that won't disappear on me.

You guys with your complete lack of dates for anything are putting some customers in a serious bind. We don't know how to make proper decisions. We don't know (if ever) when you will have similar JS customization in the new SM or if you'll limit what it can do or if you'll decide you don't really want to do it. We don't know how long you will let us keep using legacy. So, it's hard to make informed decisions about how to invest in our site. The only informed decision we could make right now is to search out a site alternative that isn't as unknown as this one.

ouki

mishenka wrote: »

On the other hand, SmugMug (judging by the absence of full customization at the present moment) just withdrew itself from a true, custom photo hosting providers niche and joined a rank of countless photo template-based website hosting providers. Don't get me wrong - it is my professional opinion that your template based engine is awesome and very competitive. But it is not the service you were known and respected for.

I totally agree. One of the main reasons I chose Smugmug is because its full customization capabilities. I'm not a programmer but I like the "unique" look of my site. I'm seeing Smugmug is going towards the direction of its competitors, I regret it is happening.