Don't handhold that 500mm

Harryb

Hi Y'all,

I was up at Merritt Island with Dixie and I decided to work on my BIF techniques with the 500mm and the Wimberly head. Before I got the 500mm most of my BIFs were captured handheld using the 300mm or the 80-400. You can't do that with the 500m because after a few attempts the lens is wobbling and its not easy tracking a bird in flight while your camera and lens are bobbing up & down.

I had intended to take off the 1.4 TC but I forgot but fortunately found a willing model and here are the uncropped results. It was a grey day so the blue skies are PSed in.

Andy

Fine advice, Harry!

I've really not seen any good shots with a 500 handheld. Sure, maybe one would get lucky, first few shots, and the light is just right, really fast shutter, etc etc but your suggestion is much much better.

Shooting a 500 handheld = recipe for blurry oof shots....

Good thread!

JCDoss

There is a guy who posts in other forums who uses a Sigma 300-800 handheld, sometimes with TCs! Actually, I think he uses the old "lean up against a post" technique, so they're not really "handheld" in the strictest definition of the word. He just doesn't use dedicated support. I've got a few decent shots with my Sigma 100-300 and TCs by using "available support" because I'm morally opposed to tripods. :uhoh

Andy

JCDoss wrote:

There is a guy who posts in other forums who uses a Sigma 300-800 handheld, sometimes with TCs! Actually, I think he uses the old "lean up against a post" technique, so they're not really "handheld" in the strictest definition of the word. He just doesn't use dedicated support. I've got a few decent shots with my Sigma 100-300 and TCs by using "available support" because I'm morally opposed to tripods. :uhoh

Hiya JC

I'll put that in the category of "getting lucky with a few shots"... unless one is a professional weight-lifter, I can't see getting really consistent results with one... sure some, but...

DavidTO

Look, I barely get by holding my 70-200 at the wider end, I do worse at 200, and I can't even imagine what kind of mess I'd make at 500. Good advice, Harry. You'd have to be into wasting time or just plain desperate to handhold at 500!

Osprey Whisperer

I could do it, Harry. Just send that camera and 500mm lens to me..and I'll show you. :uhoh

Harryb

JCDoss wrote:

There is a guy who posts in other forums who uses a Sigma 300-800 handheld, sometimes with TCs! Actually, I think he uses the old "lean up against a post" technique, so they're not really "handheld" in the strictest definition of the word. He just doesn't use dedicated support. I've got a few decent shots with my Sigma 100-300 and TCs by using "available support" because I'm morally opposed to tripods. :uhoh

I'm with you JC. I hate tripods with a passion. I much, much, much prefer shooting handheld. Unfortunetaly as much as I hate tripods I hate bad photos worst. I will often shoot from the window of my car with the 500 propped on the window when my subject would fly off if I exit the car. When I get out of the car I will take my first series of shots with the 500 propped against the top of my car in case the subject flies off while I'm geting my tripod set up.

The problem with that is that I have to keep my shutter speeds way up which usually means a higher ISO setting. The higher your ISO the less color and dynamic range your shot will have and you really have to nail the exposure. Using a tripod allows me to shoot at a slower shutter speed with a lower ISO setting. It also eliminates camera shake from the equation of things to account for when taking the shot. Every time I shoot with a pro they take the majority of their shots with a tripod.

Rohirrim

Nice shots Harry. I agree that a tripod is best, however the recent Red Tail in flight shots I posted the other day were handheld with the 500 and the 1.4TC. This was with IS on mode 2.

Harryb

Andy wrote:

Fine advice, Harry!

I've really not seen any good shots with a 500 handheld. Sure, maybe one would get lucky, first few shots, and the light is just right, really fast shutter, etc etc but your suggestion is much much better.

Shooting a 500 handheld = recipe for blurry oof shots....

Good thread!

Thank you Andy. If you're going to spend the $ for long glass you gotta use it right or waste all that $. Being a tad dense I tried hand holding that bazooka and it just doesn't work.

ian408

Excellent advice Harry. There are others with big glass who shoot handheld.
No good.

That Wimberely is the way to go.

Harryb

Bird Man Photographer wrote:

I could do it, Harry. Just send that camera and 500mm lens to me..and I'll show you. :uhoh

I just wouldn't feel right doing that to ya Mike. That lens is a real bear to tote around.

ginger_55

Steve, I think I could do it, too. But it ain't easy and it takes a ton of used wasted memory! And a long bird flight. However, when I first see that bird, like the eagle, there wasn't any way for me to get a tripod out............even if it were with me.

The bird was in the air! I was looking at an empty marsh, just looking. I only raised the camera to make sure the darn thing wasn't another turkey vulture. The bird landed a bit later.

Now I could have gotten better shots of him on the perch with a tripod, and he was there long enough. But the tri pod was a hike back, my husband was getting irritable, etc.

And my main problem with those shots is not so much shake as pixels. The damn perch is clear to tim buk tu. And that is the way it is here in SC.

I am going to try another place over the holidays, hopefully. But so far my birds are able to stay much further away here, it seems, than they do in some other areas of Fla and Ca.

It depends on their comfort level. I did get some snowys and lil blues closer than before near a bridge that is often used for fishing. They did notice the camera click, but they must have been comfortable with people being on that bridge. Most places around here, they are only comfortable a few feet from the range of my lens and camera.

But Harry, you were not just hand holding a 500mm, you were holding a 500mm plus Extender.

I have not used mine until this eagle, after he flew somewhere else.
The surprising thing to me was that my flight shots seem better than my shots with him on the perch. Maybe he did a circle a bit closer to me. Also the light was going away rapidly.

I was all scrunched up sitting with elbows on my knees, etc. And I used memory like it was not a problem. Still I would like to see just one bird really close enough to count the feathers. A bird of prey I mean.

I did use my monopod somewhere and handheld in another place close together. Because of the flight and all, I did get better results handheld, but it was a 400. Also, a slower shutter speed, and all, that implys to me that the bird is not flying.

ginger

pathfinder

Harryb wrote:

I'm with you JC. I hate tripods with a passion. I much, much, much prefer shooting handheld. Unfortunetaly as much as I hate tripods I hate bad photos worst. I will often shoot from the window of my car with the 500 propped on the window when my subject would fly off if I exit the car. When I get out of the car I will take my first series of shots with the 500 propped against the top of my car in case the subject flies off while I'm geting my tripod set up.

The problem with that is that I have to keep my shutter speeds way up which usually means a higher ISO setting. The higher your ISO the less color and dynamic range your shot will have and you really have to nail the exposure. Using a tripod allows me to shoot at a slower shutter speed with a lower ISO setting. It also eliminates camera shake from the equation of things to account for when taking the shot. Every time I shoot with a pro they take the majority of their shots with a tripod.

Harry, I strongly prefer shooting from a tripod with longer lenses also. But, I am a pragmatist, and use a bean bag or a tree stump or whatever is available if need be, just like you. And yes, I make a real effort to use very high shutter speeds for these shots. Once on a tripod, certain shots - think overhead maybe - are no longer possible.
I shoot 600mm ( 300mm + 2x ) handheld at times - it is much lighter, smaller and shorter than a 500 f4 prime. I have been known to shoot 700mm ( 500 + 1.$TC ) off the tripod from time to time also. Try chasing antelope with a tripod some times - it just won't fly.

SO I strongly prefer a tripod mounted lens, but I won't let that preference keep me from getting a shot another way if necessary.

Harryb

Rohirrim wrote:

Nice shots Harry. I agree that a tripod is best, however the recent Red Tail in flight shots I posted the other day were handheld with the 500 and the 1.4TC. This was with IS on mode 2.

Thanks Steve. There will always be times when you don't have time to set up the tripod. Then you go for the shot and do the best you can. I will usually prop my 500 against any available support (usually my car) and get a few shots off before setting up my tripod in case my subect moves off while I'm setting up. I find that I get my best shots using the tripod. With the tripod I use lower ISOs and I don't have to shoot as wide open as I do when I shoot w/o good support.

I'm not saying you always have to use a tripod. I am saying that it should be used whenever possible.

bfjr

Pretty good shots of a left coast Osprey, still think our westie Osprey look a little healthier :lol Probably comes from all that fresh and juicy pineapple they get to add to their diets :lol4

And really good info for those of us (me not one of em :cry) that have a 500mm and whimberly, or have the luxury of shooting from car etc etc :cry :grim :cry

And all this time I thought bean bags were for throwing :lol4 :duel

Harryb

ian408 wrote:

Excellent advice Harry. There are others with big glass who shoot handheld.
No good.

That Wimberely is the way to go.

Thanks Ian. I like the Wimberly more and more as I get accustomed to it.

Harryb

ginger_55 wrote:

Steve, I think I could do it, too. But it ain't easy and it takes a ton of used wasted memory! And a long bird flight. However, when I first see that bird, like the eagle, there wasn't any way for me to get a tripod out............even if it were with me.

There will always be times when you can't get your tripod set-up in time and then you do the best you can. I got a carbon fiber tripod so it would be easier to tote.

It depends on their comfort level. I did get some snowys and lil blues closer than before near a bridge that is often used for fishing. They did notice the camera click, but they must have been comfortable with people being on that bridge. Most places around here, they are only comfortable a few feet from the range of my lens and camera.

That is so true. When I shot on the beach at Sanibel the birds would let you get within a few feet of them. That was because they were used to folks feeding them and viewed humans as potential food sources and not as potential threats.

Harryb

pathfinder wrote:

Harry, I strongly prefer shooting from a tripod with longer lenses also. But, I am a pragmatist, and use a bean bag or a tree stump or whatever is available if need be, just like you. And yes, I make a real effort to use very high shutter speeds for these shots. Once on a tripod, certain shots - think overhead maybe - are no longer possible.
I shoot 600mm ( 300mm + 2x ) handheld at times - it is much lighter, smaller and shorter than a 500 f4 prime. I have been known to shoot 700mm ( 500 + 1.$TC ) off the tripod from time to time also. Try chasing antelope with a tripod some times - it just won't fly.

SO I strongly prefer a tripod mounted lens, but I won't let that preference keep me from getting a shot another way if necessary.

PF. I use the tripod when the situation permits. Many of my shots are from my car window. I just use the window as support for the lens. I usually use my car as support and get a few shots off before I set up the tripod just in case my subject decides to move.

The tripod can't be used for every shot but it should be used for all shots when the situation allows it.

Harryb

[

QUOTE=bfjr]Pretty good shots of a left coast Osprey, still think our westie Osprey look a little healthier :lol Probably comes from all that fresh and juicy pineapple they get to add to their diets :lol4

Nah, thats just another sign of excessive pineapple in one's diet. Their eyesight starts to go and they are prone to hullicinations.

And really good info for those of us (me not one of em :cry) that have a 500mm and whimberly, or have the luxury of shooting from car etc etc :cry :grim :cry

Whine, whine, whine, if and when you get the 200-400 which is almost as big and heavy as the 500mm this info will be gold for ya.