Need Help with large group in Gymnasium
**Picture Added**
Hi,
Band Mom with a camera back seeking help....AGAIN....!
I've been asked to take a picture of a high school band in the school's gymnasium. The band has 100 or so members. I've never been in this gym and I am taking the picture this Friday (8/16/13). I have recently acquired 2 Alien Bee 800's and 1 AB400, a 47" Octobox, a 64" silver umbrella, and a honeycomb grid for one of the lights. I'm still learning how to use them properly. I have an Olympus E-5, a 12-60 mm and a 35-100 lens.
I'm envisioning something like this: http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/1490womi.com/files/2011/04/DCHS-band.jpg
(But I hope I can get the back rows lit a little better...)
I have searched for some how-to's for accomplishing this task and thought I had 'some' idea of what I need to do until I mentioned this to a photographer friend of mine who said "oh, no, you don't want to do that...." and started talking way over my head about what I really should do. So...here I am asking my dGrin friends for help because I have found that the advise I receive here is usually spot on and I am truly grateful for that.
I was thinking that I need to set the 800's as high as my 13-ft stands will let them go, set them diagonally across the band students, and aim each light toward the middle of that opposite quadrant. Then, set the 400 in the middle close to where I will be with the camera so it can be used as fill. I plan to be on a ladder approx level to the middle of the band.
Does this sound about right? Do I use my umbrella/octobox/grid or should I just use the silver shield reflectors that came with the lights?
Any tips, suggestions, corrections or advise you can give me is much appreciated. If I keep hanging around this band and trying to do some of the things they ask of me, they may make a photographer out of me yet!
Thanks in advance,
Sherry Pollett
Hi,
Band Mom with a camera back seeking help....AGAIN....!
I've been asked to take a picture of a high school band in the school's gymnasium. The band has 100 or so members. I've never been in this gym and I am taking the picture this Friday (8/16/13). I have recently acquired 2 Alien Bee 800's and 1 AB400, a 47" Octobox, a 64" silver umbrella, and a honeycomb grid for one of the lights. I'm still learning how to use them properly. I have an Olympus E-5, a 12-60 mm and a 35-100 lens.
I'm envisioning something like this: http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/1490womi.com/files/2011/04/DCHS-band.jpg
(But I hope I can get the back rows lit a little better...)
I have searched for some how-to's for accomplishing this task and thought I had 'some' idea of what I need to do until I mentioned this to a photographer friend of mine who said "oh, no, you don't want to do that...." and started talking way over my head about what I really should do. So...here I am asking my dGrin friends for help because I have found that the advise I receive here is usually spot on and I am truly grateful for that.
I was thinking that I need to set the 800's as high as my 13-ft stands will let them go, set them diagonally across the band students, and aim each light toward the middle of that opposite quadrant. Then, set the 400 in the middle close to where I will be with the camera so it can be used as fill. I plan to be on a ladder approx level to the middle of the band.
Does this sound about right? Do I use my umbrella/octobox/grid or should I just use the silver shield reflectors that came with the lights?
Any tips, suggestions, corrections or advise you can give me is much appreciated. If I keep hanging around this band and trying to do some of the things they ask of me, they may make a photographer out of me yet!
Thanks in advance,
Sherry Pollett
Visit my galleries at: http://psphotos.smugmug.com/ and/or http://pollettsquaredphotography.smugmug.com
0
Comments
Shooting from a high angle allows the necessary DOF to be less (the closer you get the plane of faces to equal the image plane of the camera), and it allows you to light more evenly if the lights are also on an equal-ish plane compared to the subjects.
Cross lighting can be effective, but shadow placement can be problematic. Shadows can fall on the rows behind and could be both distracting as well as potentially obstructing.
I recommend the "wall of light" approach and setting the reflecting surface as fairly high as possible/practical. Basically turn the monolights around and away from the subjects and behind and above your position, which would be somewhere across the gym and above the highest row of subjects (to match your supplied image). A white reflective surface is used to create the "wall", unless you are lucky enough to get a gym with white walls and ceiling. The white reflective surface can be large bed sheets or stretched paper table cover or white tarps or anything similar. The concept is that of a massive white reflector wall. The monolights should be pointed at the wall and spread enough for even illumination. As long as the reflector wall is above your position, it will cast shadows behind the subjects and if the wall is very large the shadows will still be soft. (The reflector wall becomes a giant diffuser.)
Make sure that the gym lights are off as you don't need the conflicting white balance. (Most gym light is extremely poor color quality.) Watch for any hanging obstructions, both for direct interference/intrusion and for shadows which could affect the image.
Light stands could be difficult on bleachers, so you may have to work out a sort of clamp to hold the lights, with or without the stands. You might also be able to use volunteers to steady the lights on stands.
I recommend that any subjects with glasses either remove the glasses or, at least, lower them a bit to reduce reflections.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Here are a couple of other examples:
http://www.lisle202.net/band/Marching%20Band%20group%20photo%202012.jpg
http://www.colonialheightsband.org/Old%20Site/images/marchingband/2010/gym/2010_MCB_GYM.jpg
http://www.triblocal.com/schaumburg/files/cache/2011/10/OriginalImageRetrieval.jpg/460_345_resize.jpg
I didn't think about turning off the gym lights, so thank you for that tidbit, too. If I can't get helpers and large white sheets to bounce the light from and if the walls/ceiling aren't white, should I just use my lights to shoot straight at a section without crossing the lights in a diagonal? I mean, set one light to my left and shoot straight at the middle of the left side...set another light up on my right to shoot straight at the middle of the right side of the band and use the other light to shoot up the middle? (Sort of create a 'wall' of light'?????) I still need the light higher than me, right? And I need to be on a ladder myself to get up higher for the dof. That may prove to be the biggest challenge of all.
I guess I still have more to think about.
Thanks again for your help.
Sherry
The following diagram is for a similar concept of lighting (overhead diagram view):
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/files/wall_of_light_forum_438.jpg
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Sherry
That's what I noticed off the bat, so what else could I do better next time (because they have already asked me to do next year's pictures, too)?
This is a large area to cover, and I think you did quite well.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
This band is from a small high school in a neighboring small town. They had been using someone from a national 'chain' outfit to take this picture for them every year. Parents complained about the quality and the Band Director told me the price was so high this year that it wasn't even worth it for them to do a picture at all if done by the old photog. The band uses this picture for a calendar. They sell ads for the calendar as a fund raiser and then give the calendars away to community members. They needed something less expensive.....(and as your eyes roll at that) so here I come.
For the past 4 years, I have taken pictures of another local high school band because my daughter was in that band. I did that purely for fun, but I did make some sales to parents. I also put together a photo book as a yearbook sort of deal that I sold each year. The kids loved those. My daughter's high school band director asked me what I would charge to help out this other band. I gave them a great deal with the condition that they let me do some small group or individual shots for the kids that I could offer for sale to the parents. That little band gave me more sales in one day than my daughter's band parents gave me in the last two years!! Plus...they have already asked me back next year!
I think after all this time I may have found my niche in the photography world!! I know I still have a LOT to learn (especially about lighting set-ups), but I am a pretty happy girl right now. A busy girl because I have a lot of orders to fill, but a happy girl. (Most of the orders will be self-fulfilled...only a few ordered through my smugmug account.)
I really do so much appreciate Ziggy's very helpful advise for lighting this gym.
Sherry
First: I think you have surprisingly even lighting considering you only had 2 AB800 and 1 AB400.
In fact it looks to me to be over exposed. Whites, faces and reds seem to have lost detail. (Hard to see with the small image.) I don't see any reason this couldn't be improved with some PP.
Now as to thoughts: DOF, a couple of thoughts, rent a tilt shift lens, decrease your aperture, take two or three shots focusing on the front, middle and rear, then focus stack.
As to exposure: If you have or can borrow a light meter you can get the exposure spot on and easily check the entire scene for exposure from top to bottom, left to right.
I can see how your clients are happy with what you got them.
Sam
I like the arrow idea.
14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
http://www.danielkimphotography.com
Yes, I thought I had the lights a little too hot & overexposed the front few rows of students. I definitely see room for improvement there. I was just so worried about getting those upper rows lit nicely that I didn't want to dial down the lights. I think I can move them back further and that will help. I had them set in the center of the gym floor and I think I can go back at least 6-8 feet and still get everything without having too much on the front.
I also think I need to get myself higher. That means figuring out a way to get my center light higher, too. I have a year to work on THAT at least!!
Sam, I appreciate your suggestions for improving. I didn't think of focus stack!! I will most definitely give that a try. Also need to research the tilt-shift lens and perhaps rent one sometime during the year to experiment with it before trying it on the big group. (I see there is a tilt-shift challenge going on now, but I just don't have time to try that right now.)
The band directors positioned the students the way they wanted them to be. I had nothing to do with that part. I also wish the kids in the back were more visible.
Thanks again to each of you for taking time to comment and offer tips for the future. I really, really appreciate it!!!
Sherry P.
I would have taken it as a suggestion..if it doesn't work photographically then you need to make "strong" suggestion otherwise.
14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
http://www.danielkimphotography.com
Sherry P.
WilkesPhotography
http://www.LeslieWilkesPhotography.com