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Softproofing two PP shots.

BloozeBlooze Registered Users Posts: 63 Big grins
edited August 28, 2013 in Finishing School
I'm getting ready to send in an order to Bayphoto and have a question about two of my photos. I've typically not used color correction with BP and have rarely had a problem, but these are the first two photos I've done a lot of saturation/color change on and would appreciate some advice on what to do with them. I've softproofed them using BP's profile and adjusted them back to where they are close to the originals, but obviously when I toggle the profile they are way oversaturated and screwy looking. So would it be better to send off the softproofed and adjusted files with no color correction, or the original with color correction?

Thanks for the help!

D200_090612_0546bw-M.jpg

dsc_9902bw-M.jpg

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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited August 18, 2013
    Is the lab going to allow you to USE the profiles prior to you sending them? Or force you to send sRGB?
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    BloozeBlooze Registered Users Posts: 63 Big grins
    edited August 18, 2013
    arodney wrote: »
    Is the lab going to allow you to USE the profiles prior to you sending them? Or force you to send sRGB?

    Far as I know they ask for sRGB or adobe RGB. I was able to bring them into gamut and close to the originals when softproofing, so I think I'm OK. I'm having to use my work laptop (which I calibrated with my Spyder) so it's gonna be a crap shoot anyway.
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,899 moderator
    edited August 18, 2013
    When in doubt just do some small test prints.

    If you deal with Bay Photo directly, and choose their highest level service, I believe that you may have some additional choices of file types as well as color spaces. Contact Bay Photo for assistance.

    If you deal with Bay Photo directly, and choose their Economy service (no color correction), then I believe that you will use their ROES system which only allows sRGB and Adobe RGB (1998) in a JPG file. (Make sure that the color space profile is embedded in the file.)

    http://www.bayphoto.com/bayweb/pro_colormanage.htm

    If you use SmugMug as an intermediary, they greatly prefer sRGB in a JPG file. (They will attempt to convert any Adobe RGB files to sRGB for you.)

    http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93362
    http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93278-what-types-of-files-can-i-upload-to-smugmug-
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 19, 2013
    I have a comment and a question for arodney.

    First I do most of my own printing in house but when I have or do outsource
    I try and get an icc profile from the vendor and find out what file formats, bit depth
    and color space they accept.

    For an example I could convert my pro photo 16 bit file to an 8 bit jpg srgb file.

    I would soft proof the jpg file and do the best I could with out of gamut colors etc.

    I would send this off to the printer and request no color correction.

    Another option is to order a small say 8X10 test print and see where your at.
    and then adjust as necessary for the final large print.

    Now to my arodney question:

    When I copy an image from say digital grin and paste into CS6 it is always less vibrant
    with the colors muted and less contrast. Can you explain what's going on here??

    Thanks,

    Sam
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited August 19, 2013
    IF you can't apply the actual profile used for the output, forget soft proofing. IOW, sending sRGB or Adobe RGB doesn't cut it, you have no control over what rendering intent is used (it's image specific), if Black Point Compensation is used or not etc. Proper color management workflow is having each image soft proofed using the profile that will convert the data and having control over the parameters above, plus the ability to edit based on that actual profile (sometimes after conversion). Labs that demand sRGB and will not allow you to use the actual ICC profile for conversions are using a half baked color management workflow and that's being kind!
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    BloozeBlooze Registered Users Posts: 63 Big grins
    edited August 27, 2013
    I received my two prints back and they matched my attempts at bringing them into gamut and soft proofing. The rust is a bit darker and a tad flat because of the correcting, but looks decent. The flower looks exactly like I wanted. I knew the rusty link would look a little darker. I should of had a print made before the gamut corrections to compare. I think I will send it off and have it printed this week to see.
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    BinaryFxBinaryFx Registered Users Posts: 707 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2013
    Sam, it sounds like the data in the copy/paste is in say sRGB however it is probably untagged with no ICC profile - while your Photoshop settings are in Adobe RGB.


    Stephen Marsh
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2013
    Blooze wrote: »
    Far as I know they ask for sRGB or adobe RGB. I was able to bring them into gamut and close to the originals when softproofing, so I think I'm OK.

    There's no point really. The profile will take the image into gamut (and you have two options for how assuming you have the profile and can use it, which you can't). See the 2nd video. IF you prefer the Perceptual mapping (and soft proof) but the lab forces Relative Colorimetric, there goes that part of the workflow out the window. If they lab uses a different or updated profile, your soft proof is incorrect. IOW, unless you have the output profile and can use it, soft proofing is just a feel good result and is half baked color management workflow.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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