ND filter questions

NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
edited December 13, 2005 in Accessories
I'm starting to look for a ND filter for my 20D. I looked at Adorama selection and got a few questions:
1) There are "ND" filters and "Digital ND" filters. What's the difference?:scratch
2) I remember Andy mentioning and using ND 10x. However, after 8x adorama only shows 64x and after that only 100x, 1,000x and higher, which are mostly for the solar eclipses, etc. So, my questions here are
2.1) Where would one find ND 10x?
2.2) If I choose 64x (like the one mentioned here), would it be useful in a common situations (like shooting streams, etc), or it's an overkill? I don't remember anybody using such high numbers..:dunno
3) My widest (both in focal distance and thread size) lens is EF-S 10-22, filter thread 77mm. I usually carry it with UV filter on. Would I need to remove UV when I put ND on, or it would be more beneficial to get a larger filter size and use a step-up ring (which I'm gonna do for all my other lenses that have smaller thread size)?

Thank you for your wisdom! :bow
"May the f/stop be with you!"

Comments

  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited December 11, 2005
    From B+W

    Neutral Density filters have several uses and offer the possibility to achieve otherwise unachievable results. ND filters appear grey and reduce the amount of light reaching the film. They have no effect on color balance. They have four main uses: 1) To enable slow shutter speeds to be used, especially with high speed films, to record movement in subjects such as waterfalls, clouds, or cars. 2) To decrease depth of field by allowing wider apertures to be used, which helps separate subjects from their background. 3) To decrease the effective ISO of high speed film (above ISO 400) and allow it to be used outdoors in bright situations. 4) To allow cine and video cameras (which have fixed shutter speeds) to film subjects such as snow, sand or other bright scenes which could cause overexposure.

    These filters are available in increments from one stop to twenty stops exposure reduction.

    Neutral Density factors:

    BW101 (ND.3) (exposure adjustment = 1 stop)

    BW102 (ND.6) (exposure adjustment = 2 stops)

    BW103 (ND.9) (exposure adjustment = 3 stops)

    BW106 (ND1.8) (exposure adjustment = 6 stops)

    BW110 (ND3.0) (exposure adjustment = 10 stops)

    BW113 (ND4.0) (exposure adjustment = 13 stops)

    BW120 (ND6.0) (exposure adjustment = 20 stops)
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 11, 2005
    Thank you, Sid!
    I see, so 10x is also ND3.0.. A bit confusing, but I understand.
    Now, can anybody possibly answer my other questions, please?
    TIA!
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited December 12, 2005
    Additive feature of the filters. 8 + 2 = 10. Meaning you'd use 2 ND filters.

    No answer on the UV.

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 12, 2005
    Ian,
    ian408 wrote:
    Additive feature of the filters. 8 + 2 = 10. Meaning you'd use 2 ND filters.

    No answer on the UV.

    Ian
    I understand "additivity":-)
    However, 8+2 combo is thicker than a single 10, so on my 10-22 wide open I will most likely get the vignetting that I'm trying to avoid..

    The main question is: is 64x totally unusable in the most common situations?
    Or, even more generic: which single ND would be most useful? I mean - at 77mm most of the good ones are about $100 (plus/minus $30), so I'd really like to buy just one for now...

    Thank you!
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited December 12, 2005
    Nikolai wrote:
    I understand "additivity":-)
    However, 8+2 combo is thicker than a single 10, so on my 10-22 wide open I will most likely get the vignetting that I'm trying to avoid..

    The main question is: is 64x totally unusable in the most common situations?
    Or, even more generic: which single ND would be most useful? I mean - at 77mm most of the good ones are about $100 (plus/minus $30), so I'd really like to buy just one for now...

    Thank you!

    If you're afraid of vignetting, get a 4x6 set and a holder. Something like a
    Lee or Cokin ("P" style). That should cover most of what you need.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • BodwickBodwick Registered Users Posts: 396 Major grins
    edited December 12, 2005
    Nikolai wrote:
    I understand "additivity":-)

    The main question is: is 64x totally unusable in the most common situations?
    Or, even more generic: which single ND would be most useful? I mean - at 77mm most of the good ones are about $100 (plus/minus $30), so I'd really like to buy just one for now...

    Thank you!
    I'd say 64x would be perfect for waterfalls and rivers. Maybe a bit much to drop portraits to say f2 but you could work round that.

    What are you planning on shooting?

    Don't forget a stacked 4 & 2 make an ND6 and gives you three filters for the price of two. When you then buy an ND6 your three filters will give you a 2 4 6 8 10 & 12 when stacked.

    So if your looking to the future maybe look at a cokin type mount and square filters. Buy slowly over time and build a collection of quality filters.
    You can then drop in a graduated ND in the same mount as part of your growing collection. I don't even know if anyone makes screw in Grad ND's but if they do dont buy it.
    "The important thing is to just take the picture with the lens you have when the picture happens."
    Jerry Lodriguss - Sports Photographer

    Reporters sans frontières
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 12, 2005
    I didn't think of that
    ian408 wrote:
    If you're afraid of vignetting, get a 4x6 set and a holder. Something like a
    Lee or Cokin ("P" style). That should cover most of what you need.
    But I will now, thanks for the idea!thumb.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 12, 2005
    64x and stacking
    Bodwick wrote:
    I'd say 64x would be perfect for waterfalls and rivers. Maybe a bit much to drop portraits to say f2 but you could work round that.

    What are you planning on shooting?

    Don't forget a stacked 4 & 2 make an ND6 and gives you three filters for the price of two. When you then buy an ND6 your three filters will give you a 2 4 6 8 10 & 12 when stacked.

    So if your looking to the future maybe look at a cokin type mount and square filters. Buy slowly over time and build a collection of quality filters.
    You can then drop in a graduated ND in the same mount as part of your growing collection. I don't even know if anyone makes screw in Grad ND's but if they do dont buy it.
    Thank you for your comment!

    I used to have 8x and 4x with my Sony 828, but in reality I never used them separately, I had to stack. Of course, Sony had min aperture f/8, while on 20D I can go much higher.

    I mostly plan to use it for waterfalls and streams, which can be either in under the hot socal/nevada/arizon/utah sun, or deep in canyons.

    Cheers!1drink.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • TristanPTristanP Registered Users Posts: 1,107 Major grins
    edited December 12, 2005
    Nikolai wrote:
    I used to have 8x and 4x with my Sony 828, but in reality I never used them separately, I had to stack. Of course, Sony had min aperture f/8, while on 20D I can go much higher.
    I don't see why you can't use the same combo for your Canon.
    panekfamily.smugmug.com (personal)
    tristansphotography.com (motorsports)

    Canon 20D | 10-22 | 17-85 IS | 50/1.4 | 70-300 IS | 100/2.8 macro
    Sony F717 | Hoya R72
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 12, 2005
    Tristan,
    TristanP wrote:
    I don't see why you can't use the same combo for your Canon.
    I had 58mm filters for 828.
    Now I have a variety of lenses with threads ranges from 52mm to 62mm to 68mm to 77mm. Since filters are expensive I'm thinking of getting the max diameter (or, as guys suggested, 4x4) and use step up rings/adapters from smaller ones.
    Cheers!1drink.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • devbobodevbobo Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,339 SmugMug Employee
    edited December 13, 2005
    Nik,

    I have the BW110 ND filter that you referred to. I have mainly used it for sunrise (over water) shots to smooth the water.

    In some cases, I blew the sky a little too much, but with a recent investment in some ND grads I am hoping to rectify that problem. icon10.gif

    Here's a few sample shots...
    47822875-M.jpg
    42529069-M.jpg
    42530309-M.jpg
    Hope this helps,

    David
    David Parry
    SmugMug API Developer
    My Photos
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited December 13, 2005
    Thanks, David!
    devbobo wrote:
    Nik,

    I have the BW110 ND filter that you referred to. I have mainly used it for sunrise (over water) shots to smooth the water.

    In some cases, I blew the sky a little too much, but with a recent investment in some ND grads I am hoping to rectify that problem. icon10.gif
    Hope this helps,

    David
    Appreciate the feedback!
    Cheers!1drink.gif

    "May the f/stop be with you!"
Sign In or Register to comment.