What is peace?

rutt

Ginger and I have some not very PC ideas about this, and seem to be busy hijacking 4Lab's thread which was supposed to be pictures of his baby.

So I thought I'd start a thread which could absorb the hijack.

Summary to date:

• Ginger: I think light is a good one, too. Streaming light, well, I would kill for it, but I can't wait around, and I don't have a place for it to stream through anyway.
• Rutt: Peace is something that happens when nations decide not to have war, something that Buddhists struggle to attain, and what you rest in when you are dead.
• Ginger: I would love to see an abstract one, like that light thru the hole in New Mexico type "rocks".
• Ginger: Also I fully expect someone to come up with a cute puppy and kitty sleeping together, huge smile!
• Ginger: I am running into so many older people who are divorcing, thinking of divorcing, etc, I also think a photo of two older people sitting quietly together on a quaint wrap around porch. Or variations there of, I think those would be good.

Here is a very non-PC idea. Peace = Dispair. Peace is what happens when you give up, stop trying, stop worrying about your children, stop trying to be a better person, stop caring.

4labs

rutt wrote:

Ginger and I have some not very PC ideas about this, and seem to be busy hijacking 4Lab's thread which was supposed to be pictures of his baby.

So I thought I'd start a thread which could absorb the hijack.

Summary to date:

• Ginger: I think light is a good one, too. Streaming light, well, I would kill for it, but I can't wait around, and I don't have a place for it to stream through anyway.
• Rutt: Peace is something that happens when nations decide not to have war, something that Buddhists struggle to attain, and what you rest in when you are dead.
• Ginger: I would love to see an abstract one, like that light thru the hole in New Mexico type "rocks".
• Ginger: Also I fully expect someone to come up with a cute puppy and kitty sleeping together, huge smile!
• Ginger: I am running into so many older people who are divorcing, thinking of divorcing, etc, I also think a photo of two older people sitting quietly together on a quaint wrap around porch. Or variations there of, I think those would be good.

Here is a very non-PC idea. Peace = Dispair. Peace is what happens when you give up, stop trying, stop worrying about your children, stop trying to be a better person, stop caring.

Rutt I don't mind at all about the hijack..


I don't think I will ever stop trying,worrying about my family, or be a better person, but still have inner peace.


Like I said before I never wanted for much and have more than I know what to do with but have tried for 10 yrs to have a child.. Finally after being told we had 1 % chance of having one even with the miracles of modern science , we have Sam and right now I have peace. Tomorrow I may realize that I brought her into a crazy world and the feeling may pass, but for now I am enjoying the serinity I feel when look at her and the joy she has brought to my wife and I and the of my family and am savoring the feeling.



You seem like you may be someone who may never feel totally at ease..(My wife is like that) Type AAA+ personality. I hope I am way off...

rutt

4labs wrote:

Rutt I don't mind at all about the hijack..

Sorry. I was insensitive about having a baby after trying so hard. I've just found parenting to be a challenge (a rewarding one, though, but still a very big challenge.) I hope it is different for you.

There is some truth in the type AAA+ thing, but fortunately for me and my family, less than I just made it seem. I was just enjoying myself being so contrary and politically incorrect on the topic of children and peace. Now I see that I succeeded all too well. That's the risk of this kind of humor, I guess.

So, once again, please accept my apology.

Peace.

Harryb

I say it better with pictures

4labs

rutt wrote:

Sorry. I was insensitive about having a baby after trying so hard. I've just found parenting to be a challenge (a rewarding one, though, but still a very big challenge.) I hope it is different for you.

There is some truth in the type AAA+ thing, but fortunately for me and my family, less than I just made it seem. I was just enjoying myself being so contrary and politically incorrect on the topic of children and peace. Now I see that I succeeded all too well. That's the risk of this kind of humor, I guess.

So, once again, please accept my apology.

Peace.

It would be alot better if you used smiley facesNo apology necessary, I always find what you have to say interesting and food for thought...

rutt

4labs wrote:

It would be alot better if you used smiley facesNo apology necessary, I always find what you have to say interesting and food for thought...

Well, I did reference Scrooge McDuck. Maybe not as obvious as a simley, but I thought it was a good clue.

4labs

rutt wrote:

Well, I did reference Scrooge McDuck. Maybe not as obvious as a simley, but I thought it was a good clue.

It was a good clue I was just not sharp enough to pick up on it...

ShannonW

Harryb Can I just say how amazing those pictures are! I have always seen lots of your bird pictures but never anything like this. I hope one day and I can capture what you have in those images....thanks for sharing.

ginger_55

rutt wrote:

Here is a very non-PC idea. Peace = Dispair. Peace is what happens when you give up, stop trying, stop worrying about your children, stop trying to be a better person, stop caring.

In AA language, that would be the "Let Go And Let God". I have never liked that phrase, but am using it more and more.

ginger

rutt

Harryb wrote:

I say it better with pictures

WTG, Harry. I would have gotten in a lot less trouble if I had done that. I like the peace of the very old. That's what a little of what I was trying to get at with my off target humor.

Peace in Parenthood:



Watching his grandchildren in the swiming pool four months before his death.

4labs

rutt wrote:

WTG, Harry. I would have gotten in a lot trouble if I had done that. I like the peace of the very old. That's what a little of what I was trying to get at with my off target humor.

Peace in Parenthood:



Watching his grandchildren in the swiming pool four months before his death.

Great capture Rutt. You can just imagine his thoughts as he watches his grandchildren. This is what photography is all about to me...

Harryb

ShannonW wrote:

Harryb Can I just say how amazing those pictures are! I have always seen lots of your bird pictures but never anything like this. I hope one day and I can capture what you have in those images....thanks for sharing.

Thanks Shannon. Every once in awhile I like to remind folks that I have taken pics of other subjects.

dragon300zx

ginger_55 wrote:

In AA language, that would be the "Let Go And Let God". I have never liked that phrase, but am using it more and more.

ginger

bleh. Mention god and people flip out. I preffer to state it this way.

Noble Truths #2 and #3
Samudaya: There is a cause for suffering. (It is the desire to have and control things. It can take many forms: craving of sensual pleasures; the desire for fame; the desire to avoid unpleasant sensations, like fear, anger or jealousy.)

Nirodha: There is an end to suffering. (Suffering ceases with the final liberation of Nirvana (a.k.a. Nibbana). The mind experiences complete freedom, liberation and non-attachment. It lets go of any desire or craving.)

Loosely translated. We all suffer because we all desire. To end suffering and finally have peace, simply be happy with what you have, and what is given to you. Stop wanting what you don't have.

Harryb

dragon300zx wrote:

bleh. Mention god and people flip out. I preffer to state it this way.

Loosely translated. We all suffer because we all desire. To end suffering and finally have peace, simply be happy with what you have, and what is given to you. Stop wanting what you don't have.

Name one photographer who is happy with what (s)he has. There will be no peace as long as there is lens lust.

dragon300zx

Harryb wrote:

Name one photographer who is happy with what (s)he has. There will be no peace as long as there is lens lust.

Hence why the concept of peace is so hard for so many of us to grasp.

For now at least this is why 4labs has peace. He has everything he needs or has ever wanted. Wait till the new camaro comes out though, or the daughter starts dating. Then he will want things to go back to the way they are right now and he will no longer have peace.

rutt

dragon300zx wrote:

Hence why the concept of peace is so hard for so many of us to grasp.

Can we want to be better photographers and still be at peace? Can we want to win a photography contest and still be at peace? This Buddhist concept of peace has alway both perplexed and attracted me. I love the paradox of striving to attain a state incompatible with striving. [Have I got that right?]

On the other hand, the word "peace" has a more prosaic meaning that I like a lot. Peace is the absence of war and violence. That may be related to the Buddhist concept in some way, but is clearly not exactly the same thing. A state of peace may exist between people who compete keenly with each other and envy each other's possessions, talents, etc. Similarly for nations. Enlightenment isn't required for this kind of peace, only civility.

dragon300zx

rutt wrote:

Similarly for nations. Enlightenment isn't required for this kind of peace, only civility.

Ahh but is that really peace. Or is that simply everyone getting over themselves and acting like adults. Plus that is not really inner peace. That is more of a "nice world to live in". Truthfully even if the world was nice, no wars, no petty arguments, no opec, etc. There still wouldn't truly be peace because there would still be fighting at home, domestic violence, suicide, etc, etc, etc.

True world peace will never be achieved in my lifetime. As humans we are too materialistic, too wrapped up in ourselves, and too crazy. A world of peace where there was no wars, no hunger, no homeless, no fighting, no domestic disputes, no murders, no drugs, no ........, could never exist. There are too many humans who need to have their lives a mess to ever be content with things going good.

bfjr

Let me add my simple answers or questions to what I've been reading here.
Of course I'm sure I'm way off base, but:

Age old saying about Inner Peace ...... you know if you can keep your head while all around you ............ you know how it ends

I'm not very up on all the different forms or regimes to find inner peace.

I simply try to stay calm and again (as they say) center myself.

As far as photography and peace are concerned. I am at peace when I am practicing the art.

Anyway busy looking for something peaceful for the next challenge.

rutt

dragon300zx wrote:

Ahh but is that really peace?

Sure, at least it's one meaning of the word "peace". Here are the definitions from my dictionary:

1. The absence of war or other hostilities.
2. An agreement or a treaty to end hostilities.
3. Freedom from quarrels and disagreement; harmonious relations: roommates living in peace with each other.
4. Public security and order: was arrested for disturbing the peace.
5. Inner contentment; serenity: peace of mind.

It's important in these sorts of discussions not to get too hung up about semantics. The word really does have all these meanings. We might hold some dearer than others, but I really like the situation described in the first three definitions.

Nevertheless, you didn't answer my question. Can I be at peace (last definition) and still want to be a better photographer?

bfjr

rutt wrote:

Nevertheless, you didn't answer my question. Can I be at peace (last definition) and still want to be a better photographer?

Yes

4labs

rutt wrote:

Nevertheless, you didn't answer my question. Can I be at peace (last definition) and still want to be a better photographer?

Sure you can Mac Scrooge. The joy of becoming better at your craft should give you peace. I would hope we all are not so satisfied with our work that we stop trying to get better at it. I do however know some folks that are so driven and are such perfectionists that they never will find peace.

I think an even better answer is it depends on ones personality..

rutt

Of course I agree with Ben and Eric. But I'm interested in the Buddhist perspective, which I've always found something of a puzzle.

mercphoto

4labs wrote:

Sure you can Mac Scrooge. The joy of becoming better at your craft should give you peace. I would hope we all are not so satisfied with our work that we stop trying to get better at it. I do however know some folks that are so driven and are such perfectionists that they never will find peace.

I was that way shooting pool at one time. I am rather good at the game and have even been schooled by a talented and professional billiards instructor. Part of the "problem" is I know much more about the game than I can get my muscles to demonstrate, and that became a source of frustration. The way I found "peace" with the game was to stop playing competitively. No more leagues and tournaments. Now I just play with friends or by myself. (Please no jokes about me playing with myself... With the photography I expect to take a similar route, and in fact try to. I want my images good enough to generate sales, but I do not care if I never hit the cover of Sports Illustrated.

This whole "peace" thing I find a fascinating topic. I agree that the Buddhist perspective is puzzling and yet at the same time I'm very drawn to it. If I were ever to become a religious person again Buddhism would be it for me.

As per the "peace in my lifetime" statement, not only do I not think any of us will see it happen, I don't believe it ever will. I don't believe it is actually possible. I think it can be minimized for sure, but not erradicated. War will happen. Conflict will happen. I think it is built into the fabric of nature. For that reason I think we should avoid it when possible, but not shy away from it when necessary. Every martial arts instructor I have ever known has always told me the same thing: avoid conflict when possible, but when not possible go into conflict 100% and get it over with as decisively and quickly as possible. They are recognizing that conflict is dangerous and is bad. They are also recognizing that it cannot be avoided at all times.

Interestingly, with one exception, all these martial arts instructors are also Buddhists. And they are some of the most peaceful people I know.

ginger_55

I wonder if Peace could not be looked at as a sometime thing. Hopefully sought at all times, but attained a moment at a time.

That is inner peace.

I have felt peace, but it is not a permanent state, it is fleeting.

It is not in the desire for bettering myself, my photography or whatever that I lose the feeling of peace, it is the realization that I came/come up short!

What I would need to work on is acceptance of myself at a level less than "perfect" or less than desired. If inner peace were a goal.

That is my opinion. The easiest route, in my opinion, is to avoid such activities that lead to the conflict between the desire for perfection and the level of achievement needed for the sought for perfection.

I am having trouble understanding why an assignment on "peace" should be leaving me feeling so bad.

Labs, I did not mean to hurt your feelings, insult your daughter, your life, or your photography. Sam is gorgeous, I have always said that.

If I have anything more profound, or not, to add, I will try to do so. I don't have any photos.

Do I feel at peace? Rarely. Have I? Yes. Have I seen photos where people appeared to be at peace? Yes. Were they at peace? I don't know.

ginger

Thusie

I like what Ben said.

Me, I think inner peace comes from liking yourself, not self centered, but being comfortable in your own skin. Not trying to be what you aren't or what others think you should be. Looking past the wart on your nose and ignornig the wart on someone elses.

Once I got rid of all the baggage others wanted me to carry and got comfortable in my own skin, everything else just followed along. Contentment woud be a good word. That certainly doesn't mean you can't want 'stuff' or not trying to excell at what you do, just don't get hung up about it.:D

ginger_55

Everyone who is at peace could stand together, and I could photograph them.

That should do it?

g

Anson

'ganging up on desire'
http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/10/ganging_up_on_d.html

dragon300zx

rutt wrote:

Nevertheless, you didn't answer my question. Can I be at peace (last definition) and still want to be a better photographer?

Of course. As you pointed out even buddists are continually striving to reach enlightenment. The way I look at it is that if what you want and desire makes you frusterated, sad, etc, etc, etc. Then you are going about it wrong. You can want something without it making you miserable. Think of it as a goal versus a desire. If your goal is to be a better photographer and you work towards that, but keep it in perspective and don't let problems make you frusterated, sad, depressed, etc etc etc... Then it is not affecting your peace. Because even though it is something you are working on, it isn't "the end of the world" if it doesn't happen. You just keep trying and having fun along the way.

People with goals who work at the calmly, and patiently tend to have greater success (faster even) than those who freak out and let every little problem become a huge problem. People who have desires and wants make them into the world. And if they don't get the response they want, don't get the results fast enough, etc etc etc. Are not at peace, usually don't accomplish what they want, or if they do it takes forever and never really seems satisfying.

Goals = Fun
Desires = Not Fun

dragon300zx

ginger_55 wrote:

It is not in the desire for bettering myself, my photography or whatever that I lose the feeling of peace, it is the realization that I came/come up short!

I am having trouble understanding why an assignment on "peace" should be leaving me feeling so bad.

Do I feel at peace? Rarely. Have I? Yes. Have I seen photos where people appeared to be at peace? Yes. Were they at peace? I don't know.

ginger

This is my point ginger and what I take most out of the buddhist beliefs.

You never come up short. The first step to having inner peace, to being a happy go lucky person, is to STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP.

A challenge shouldn't make you feel bad, Peace shouldn't be a rarity.

Instead of getting frusterated, dissapointed, sad, irked, etc. Take a deep breath, watch a funny tv show, take a nap, relax, and realize that your alive. You can go out and try again, you can enjoy things as they happen, you can do more. Life is short. And the only thing that is really final in this life is death. As long as your alive your doing pretty good. As long as your alive you have another chance. How can you fail, how can you come up short, when you can always grow, try again, learn new things, meet new people, try new things, etc. The only failure is giving in to frusteration and giving up.

chrisjlee

photo challenge
I just find it funny that this is a photo challenge topic.

davev

I think you folks are thinkin to hard on this one.

I'll take a line from a movie and some it up. (only they referred to it as the meaning of life)

Curly: The meaning of life is just one thing.

Mikey: What, your finger?

Curly: No, just one thing, and you have to decide what that is. It's different for everyone.

That's the way I see it. This is YOUR peace. Not world peace, not someone else's peace.

It could be watching your kid, watching a ball game, belief in god.
It could be the peace that a loved one finds in dieing after a long illness. aka rest in peace.

Mine is laughter. 99.9% of the time if people are laughing, at that moment,
they're forgetting their problems and are happy, peaceful people.

Now go take some pictures.:D