Advice please: NFL Football

DJ-S1

I lucked into a ticket to this weekend's Pats-Bucs game, same seats as last year when all I had was my Canon S1-IS. These were the best shots I got from that game.





The difference this year? I'll be bringing my new 20D and 70-200 f/4L, and it's a day game with sun expected (although it will be around 35 degrees).

Any tips would be appreciated, for example I assume I should use AF Servo. I generally shoot in Av, any problems there? The sun should be behind my left shoulder. Should I shoot RAW (I usually do) or just jpeg since I'll have so many shots?

I've been thinking of getting a 1.4x converter, do you think I'll need it? The shots above are probably around 320mm equivalent, and that's what I get with the 200mm on the 20D... I didn't really want to spend $300 on a 1.4x, but I think I could use the reach?

Any problem camera or lens-wise being out in 30 degree weather for 4 hours?

DoctorIt

Cold may affect your battery life, but all the mechanicals will be fine.

Reach would be good, but remember, you're already at f/4... you're gonna lose major speed with a TC on that thing, especially the 2x. I use my Sigma 100-300 f/4 with a 1.4x and it is acceptably fast for sports ONLY in perfectly bright light. Even then, I like to move in and just use the 300 as is at f/4.

Save your money on the TC at this point. buy faster glASS first.

How much memory do you have? RAW is always better if you're just playing for yourself. If I'm shooting sports for my own kicks, RAW. If I'm shooting sports for someone else who wants results, JPG.

Anything else?

Mitchell

DoctorIt wrote:

Cold may affect your battery life, but all the mechanicals will be fine.

Reach would be good, but remember, you're already at f/4... you're gonna lose major speed with a TC on that thing, especially the 2x. I use my Sigma 100-300 f/4 with a 1.4x and it is acceptably fast for sports ONLY in perfectly bright light. Even then, I like to move in and just use the 300 as is at f/4.

Save your money on the TC at this point. buy faster glASS first.

How much memory do you have? RAW is always better if you're just playing for yourself. If I'm shooting sports for my own kicks, RAW. If I'm shooting sports for someone else who wants results, JPG.

Anything else?

Yes.....GO BUCS!!!

DJ-S1

I have a fast 2GB card, and a regular 1GB card. The shots are really just for me, but if I get a lot of keepers I'll end up processing forever. Of course, if most of the game happens to take place near the other end zone, I'll be SOL.

RichardBrackin

You Lucky duck!!
That's awesome that they'll let you bring in a lens like that without a press pass.

Reason: University of Alabama (Bryant Denny Stadium) has a rule that you can bring a dSLR into the stadium for the college football games but the lens can't be longer than 6 inches.

DJ-S1

Doh! Now I'm gonna hafta look to make sure. I've brought my DReb before, but not with the 70-200 on it.

DJ-S1

To ensure that all fans have a safe and enjoyable visit to Gillette Stadium, the following items may not be carried into the stadium:

Bags of any kind, excluding small hand held purses, and plastic carrier bags carrying purchases made at the ProShop. Contents of these bags will be inspected. Any type of chair or seat other than those approved for persons with accessibility issues. Purses larger than an 8 1/2'' x 11'' x 6'' sheet of paper will NOT be allowed into the stadium. All video cameras are prohibited. Cameras that have detachable lenses are allowed, however, they will be checked. Electrical items such as small transistor radios, small TV monitors, audio recording equipment, cellphones etc will be allowed through the gates, however, you will be required to turn on the equipment to ensure it is what it appears to be. Seat cushions will be allowed into the stadium after they have been thoroughly checked by security. Binoculars will be allowed into the stadium. The binoculars will be checked first to ensure they are what they appear to be and all binocular cases will be checked. Flags will be allowed access into the stadium, however, flag poles over 2 feet in length will not be allowed (See banner policy).

Oh yeah! Besides, the lens isn't THAT big.

DoctorIt

rules like that will have to change. Everybody and their aunt Myrtle has a dslr and zoom lenses these days!

shove the 70-200 in your bag and drape the dslr and kitty lens over your neck, they'll never hassle you.

DJ-S1

Yeah, except they don't allow bags. I think I'll just leave the L on and go for it. I'm going to be all bundled up anyway for the cold.

So, AF Servo? Or pre-focus like the pros? Or hyperfocal and leave it alone? Or doesn't it matter much since it will be bright and I'm assuming that I'll be using high zoom and small to mid aperture = large DOF?

Shakey

If it was me<---disclaimer... I would shoot Tv mode and manual . High shutter speed shots are best unless you want a few of the real low shutter speed blurred sports action that look cool.
I really would want to control my shutter speed more than my DOF

I would only go to Av if I really want to control my DOF. Like sideline shots of individuals where a shallow DOF might be desired.
Most good action shots of football I have seen have a fair amount of DOF, the action around the ball often needs to be in focus.
And Shoot a lot keep the button pressed.
I am jealous of your opportunity,I wish you luck and I will be giving you moral support with my NFL Sunday Ticket.

Tim

DJ-S1

Thanks Tim, good stuff. I'll give it a go!

mercphoto

DJ-S1 wrote:

The difference this year? I'll be bringing my new 20D and 70-200 f/4L, and it's a day game with sun expected (although it will be around 35 degrees).

Any tips would be appreciated, for example I assume I should use AF Servo. I generally shoot in Av, any problems there? The sun should be behind my left shoulder. Should I shoot RAW (I usually do) or just jpeg since I'll have so many shots?

I favor shooting JPG unless I'm new to a shooting environment or the environment is particularly tricky (tricky lighting, for example). I shoot all my sports in JPG. I shot a recent wedding in RAW because I am rather new to that and the lighting is difficult. I would suggest you shoot JPG for football, in Parameters 1. In daylight, expsore and white balance will NOT be an issue, and 20D large-fine JPG's do amazingly well to edits. I just don't see you benefiting much from RAW in this situation.

I would either shoot Av mode (wide-open) and aim for shutter speeds of 1/500 or more. Adjust ISO accordingly. Or shoot in full manual mode -- aim at the grass and choose f/4, an ISO and a shutter speed to get a correct exposure. I do not advocate shooting football in Tv mode. If this was a night game then shooting M is the only alternative, but in daylight you have the option of Av mode.

winger

DJ-S1 wrote:

Yeah, except they don't allow bags. I think I'll just leave the L on and go for it. I'm going to be all bundled up anyway for the cold.

So, AF Servo? Or pre-focus like the pros? Or hyperfocal and leave it alone? Or doesn't it matter much since it will be bright and I'm assuming that I'll be using high zoom and small to mid aperture = large DOF?

umm I dont know how many of the pros prefocus....I think alot of them use Af servo...what they do is often anticpate the action, expecially from the stands you will be able to see alot quicker than the guys on the side lines where passes are going, so you can then go and focus on the intended reciever before the ball hits his hands .

QB always makes great shoots...for passes and hand offs, dont for get the celebration dance, and I always shoot in manual mode

If you use a TC it will slow the focus down I cant remeber if I used my TC for football...I think I did but I sort of had to be smarter about what shots I intended to get (no moving the camera at last minute thinking I would get the shot in focus).

Tip: keep your batteries in a pocket close to your body.....it will help them not drain so fast, or maybe a hand warmer, but I dont really know if that would be a good idea or not. I have shot in the cold before, but not the way cold so I dont really know.

And if I dont make anysense blame the finals.

DoctorIt

winger wrote:

And if I dont make anysense blame the finals.

Please. You make perfect sense. Don't always be so hard on yourself. One of these days, you'll admit your a damn fine sports shooter.





Even though you don't know what a DOF preview button does

DJ-S1

Great info everyone, thanks. Winger, I know I have read that sports guys pre-focus a lot, but it may not apply to football. For example, you can focus on the corner of second base and wait for the runner to slide into frame, then fire. Football is a bit more chaotic and hard to anticipate than that.

It will be a blast, if I get anything close to what you and Bill post I'll be very happy. And I can't help but do better than last year at the very least!

DoctorIt

DJ-S1 wrote:

Great info everyone, thanks. Winger, I know I have read that sports guys pre-focus a lot, but it may not apply to football. For example, you can focus on the corner of second base and wait for the runner to slide into frame, then fire. Football is a bit more chaotic and hard to anticipate than that.

the AF chip on the new pro-cams are SO good these days that I think this is changing. Ask Winger how many shots she missed when she had the 1DmkII?

wxwax

I've had the chance to shoot a few college football games from the stands. My "technique" (a grand word for what I do):

* Big glass (300 - no extender)

* Fast glass (2.8)

* Shoot w/wide open aperature

* No extender (slows autofocus)

* AI Servo

* Manual

* Adjust ISO to keep the shutter speed up

* Check histogram regularly to control your highlights and adjust to changing light conditions.

* 8 frames per second.

I think that's it. I know the pros do things differently. In particular, they don't use the fast frame mode. But they're not shooting from the stands and their anticipation better.

JoeL

For what its worth,, I am a Pro and those shots you have posted are AWESOME !!



Anyone shooting from the stands Pro or not should be proud and happy to get shots as good as yours, they are crisp, clear and contain all the action needed for the play.

www.actionshots4u.smugmug.com

wxwax

Thanks Joel, you're very kind. You have some tremendous shots in your galleries, loads of fun going through them.

DJ-S1

Great info Waxy, and it's really nice to have you back!

I'll be limited to 200mm (320 equivalent) and f/4, but it will be sunny for most of the game so maybe that will help. Now when you say "to keep your shutter speed up", what range are you looking for? Bill had said 1/500 or more, do you guys agree?

Joe, I'm no pro but do you have any suggestions other than what has already been mentioned?

amadeus

DJ-S1 wrote:

I lucked into a ticket to this weekend's Pats-Bucs game, same seats as last year when all I had was my Canon S1-IS.

uh..those are the Bills.

wxwax

Yeah, those are his shots from last year. Pats-Bucs is this upcoming weekend.

wxwax

DJ-S1 wrote:

Great info Waxy, and it's really nice to have you back!

I'll be limited to 200mm (320 equivalent) and f/4, but it will be sunny for most of the game so maybe that will help. Now when you say "to keep your shutter speed up", what range are you looking for? Bill had said 1/500 or more, do you guys agree?

Thanks!

I try to get it as fast as I can, because I want to freeze the action. Several times over focal length, if I can. As the light dims, this gets harder to achieve.

JoeL

Actually what wxwax suggests is exactly what I would say.

If you are using the f/4 lens I would not use a T/C or you will end up with slow focusing and blurry images for sure.

I would also do the best you can to keep the shutter speed up, with an f/4 from that distance depth of field is going to be a lost cause anyway, it would be better to have sharp images.

I would also use A/F or Continuos focus mode to keep track of the action as it changes.

As far as Pre-Focus, I have only Pre-Focused cameras that were mounted and triggered via remote.

You can always rent a 400 f/2.8 ... wrap it and dress it up like a baby in a blanket and try to sneak it in.... (Just Kidding).

Good luck,
Joe

wxwax

JoeL wrote:

You can always rent a 400 f/2.8 ... wrap it and dress it up like a baby in a blanket and try to sneak it in.... (Just Kidding).

Good luck,
Joe

Hmmmmm.

:jose