OMG -- Diva has finally worn me down
Diva, this is my official declaration of surrender :bow in your war on my "sexy" stuff.
As you all may know, I have been moving away from generic fashion/swimsuit toward more concept driven shoots where possible. As you may also know, Diva routinely beats me to death for my models going for sexy or for what she perceives as me having "pretty girl" syndrome (which I adamantly deny). These two factors have now apparently converged and Diva is declared the winner.
Yesterday I attended a group shootout for the first time in over a year. This is the Russian crew that my friend organizes and I attended regularly for 2 years or so. Anyway, I went basically as moral support for another friend who was nervous about shooting models for the first time. I suggested this was a good way to get his feet wet.
During my 7 hours at the shoot it repeatedly occurred to me how different this all was from what I've been doing recently. The Russian models are stunning, true, but with 4-5 guys snapping away at them there's no real connection to the camera, no real concept to the shoot and no commitment from the model other than "I'm gorgeous and standing here in my underwear." :dunno
While there was a time I was fine with this, my major reaction yesterday was to be bored silly.
Apparently tall, gorgeous and semi nude is no longer enough. There actually has to be a reason behind the click. HMMMMMM:scratch
I had intended to use this shoot to learn about the 1D Mk2 I recently bought to play with but, despite 7 hours with 9 models running around in various scanties, I didn't shoot 100 frames and, frankly, 90% of what I did shoot will never make it to Bilsen Galleries.
So that's it. Diva, if you'll join me on the decks of the USS Missouri, I will sign whatever you require for this unconditional surrender.:rofl
As you all may know, I have been moving away from generic fashion/swimsuit toward more concept driven shoots where possible. As you may also know, Diva routinely beats me to death for my models going for sexy or for what she perceives as me having "pretty girl" syndrome (which I adamantly deny). These two factors have now apparently converged and Diva is declared the winner.
Yesterday I attended a group shootout for the first time in over a year. This is the Russian crew that my friend organizes and I attended regularly for 2 years or so. Anyway, I went basically as moral support for another friend who was nervous about shooting models for the first time. I suggested this was a good way to get his feet wet.
During my 7 hours at the shoot it repeatedly occurred to me how different this all was from what I've been doing recently. The Russian models are stunning, true, but with 4-5 guys snapping away at them there's no real connection to the camera, no real concept to the shoot and no commitment from the model other than "I'm gorgeous and standing here in my underwear." :dunno
While there was a time I was fine with this, my major reaction yesterday was to be bored silly.
Apparently tall, gorgeous and semi nude is no longer enough. There actually has to be a reason behind the click. HMMMMMM:scratch
I had intended to use this shoot to learn about the 1D Mk2 I recently bought to play with but, despite 7 hours with 9 models running around in various scanties, I didn't shoot 100 frames and, frankly, 90% of what I did shoot will never make it to Bilsen Galleries.
So that's it. Diva, if you'll join me on the decks of the USS Missouri, I will sign whatever you require for this unconditional surrender.:rofl
Bilsen (the artist formerly known as John Galt NY)
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
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Comments
Put your damn paints on and don't play wupped subjugated Mr. politically correct. You ether have ( what the Diva calls) pretty girl syndrome or you think everyone is an idiot.
Show me a guy from age 6 to 100 who says he doesn't enjoy the sight of a pretty woman and I will show you a lair or a gay man.
Women are no different!!
Ask them would you rather have a photo of this guy over your bed or George Cloony and see what the answer is.
Now as to the photography side of this. I ABSOLUTELY understand where you are coming from with the gang photography group. I don't understand why anyone would pay to get in line with dozens of photographers to shoot a bored model using the exact lighting and background as anyone else.
You enjoy photographing pretty woman. You have demonstrated growth and increased quality and visual impact with your images. Don't cower in the corner. Stand tall.
Sam
Thankyew, thankyew, thankyewverymuch...............
I am flattered that what I have said has become meaninful. I'd say a lot of other people tried to get the same idea across, but weren't as blunt as I was about it - I guess I get the "rude enough to beat you over the head with it" award
I think it was Nik who once said (maybe even to you?) something along the lines of "There's more to getting great pictures of attractive women than most people think there is...."
PS Sam, I did not coin "pretty girl syndrome" - not my expression. My points have been that self-consciously "sexy" is often anything but, and that I suspect sometimes our friend sees the experience HE had while taking the shots in the images (meaning rapport with model, comments made, jokes, things the model may have done between shutter clicks which were "sexy" etc) rather than looking at the resulting shots with an objective eye, and/or relies on the model's inherent "hotness" to do the job rather than helping with lighting, posing, styling assistance etc etc etc.
Pretty Girl Syndrome is my phrase to describe what Diva was accusing me of. After 170 or so beautiful women I am LOOOONG past that. I was granting her her point that when some of my models go for overtly sexy I have gotten bored with it. IN NO WAY does that mean I concede that I LOVE gorgeous women, just that now there needs to be more than "Hi, I'm pretty and I'm naked".
Diva, if you saw my latest thread you'll see what I mean. I cannot possibly go for sexy with my own DiL but I think her stuff was killer. I was admitting that what used to be sufficient is now boring to me as a photographer. As a male, I'm still fine with it though. Hopefully, that won't change.
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
I'm gonna guess it's way more than "she's gorgeous"; it would be an interesting analysis. I have thoughts, but would love to know what others see/think...........
Yep
I don't think the criticisms have ever been that the shots are too sexy. Like Sam said, if you are alive both sexes like shots of beautiful people.
There has been a disconnect between what YOU think is sexy and what we as viewers think is a good photo. Just because the subject may look great in the photo doesn't mean the photo itself is great. I've had sessions where I didn't feel any connection with the subject but once I started to edit, the pics turned out great. I've also had sessions where I thought they would be incredibly hot as the session was fun, we clicked etc. Got home and the pics were dull. I enjoy the process as much as anyone. It's fun being around beautiful women. However, you can't let that cloud your objectivity.
Back to Diva's point and your reaction to yesterday. You said you got bored silly. It kind of seems to me this would be the time to be excited about the photographic aspects of the task at hand. Is your motivation to hang out with beautiful girls and have a connection with them or get beautiful pictures?
Put it in another way, would the picture look great even if the subject wasn't? You will get praised by most people even if the photograph is bad just because the subject is attractive. I've shot everything from stuffed animals to my camera bag trying to learn new lighting techniques. You don't need a connection with the model to make a great picture.
What we like and dislike is always subjective of course. I've read the critics about your work and I have also critiqued as well. It isn't about being too sexy. It's about the total photo.
My thought is kind of the paparazzi/snapshot vs a real portrait session.
An actor/actress all dolled up for a red carpet premier is going to look fabulous no matter who takes the photo. The subject is the star and what makes the photo.
A photo session becomes much more collaborative. If I see a cover photo of same subject and notice the lighting, pose, background choice, and location then I think this is a great and well thought out photo. It takes a "hot" subject and adds the creativity of a "hot" photographer. If you put an average looking person in the photo it would still look great.
Anyway, we agree that the subject will define the image. However, while my objective has never been to hang out with pretty girls (adding any two of which are STILL too young for me) I definitely think I have better frames when there is a connection with the model.
My friendship with my tippy top model, Cyndi started two years ago with shoot # 1. Didn't know what it was but we clicked immediately. 30 or so shoots later, there is still a difference when we are working together, hence my sub-category of BilCyn Images (BILsen and CYNdi). Same with Anylza. We pick up the camera and bam, off we go. The three of us were the collaborative team on the World Tour project and I have never had more pure fun in this hobby.
On your last comment, we also agree. This afternoon I did a Santa Claus and kids shoot as a favor to a friend (she now owes me BIG time
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
Here's Meela doing exactly what Diva hates:
and here are a few that I actually coaxed out of Wyoletta during the 5 min I had alone with her
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
The first two are all ambient natural light which is still my strongpoint.
For the 2nd two I got to adjust the lights in a cyclorama room, again before the crowd came in.
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
I look at this image, the light in her eyes, her smile, really everything about it, and I think "DAMN! what's her number?"
Now look at this other image from this post:
This one kinda makes me think "porn star" and "where is the hand sanitizer?"
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is the same thing the maker of the modern bikini said (and I'm paraphrasing here) - "The bikini is hot because of what you don't see, it leaves a little bit to the imagination."
The overtly sexy images don't leave anything to the imagination, you know exactly what she is selling, whereas a beautiful girl with a twinkle in her eyes, now thats hot!
I think that's exactly the point I made in my OP. Diva has been at me forever (one reason I love her so much
I still enjoy sexy women being sexy but now I need a reason photographically. For example, I actually like the frames of Wyoletta that I posted above. But that's about 10 frames out of an 8 model, 7 hour day.
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
I know, I'm just glad to see that you have rounded the corner. Your recent work rocks btw!
nice funny capture
I love it
How does the lyric go?
"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
Think I'll go and eat worms
Long ones, short ones, fat ones, thin ones
See how they wriggle and squirm
I bite off the heads, and suck out the juice
And throw the skins away
Nobody knows how fat I grow
On worms three times a day
Ohh...nobody loves me."
Good find!! I had forgotten all about this little ditty.
I only remembered the I'll eat worms part.
Sam
Eat worms, eat fat worms
mix it with mud
eat worms
squeeze worms
mix it with your beer
say cheers to all
never care more
eat worms
because worms love you
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
Get what??
Sam
Now THAT'S funny right there.
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
Oh we'll, it was off topic anyway. Sorry for the hi-jack.
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
I missed this one in the hail of worms JM. Which one is she??
Canon 600D; Canon 1D Mk2;
24-105 f4L IS; 70-200 f4L IS; 50mm 1.4; 28-75 f2.8; 55-250 IS; 580EX & (2) 430EX Flash,
Model Galleries: http://bilsen.zenfolio.com/
Everything Else: www.pbase.com/bilsen
Which one is who?
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.