dance school packages

sellis

I've done a few dance schools and have another one lined up. I'm trying to figure out a way to offer parents a deal when their child is in multiple groups. For example, we offer a package where they get an 8x10 of the entire group and a 5x7 individual in the outfit from that group, but some kids are in seven or eight different groups and they don't want to buy every one.
I'm very interested in hearing what others who actually shoot groups do. :thumb

johng

How are you handling the individual shoots? Are you shooting every kid in every outfit or are you only doing individual shoots if a package is bought?

sellis

johng wrote: »

How are you handling the individual shoots? Are you shooting every kid in every outfit or are you only doing individual shoots if a package is bought?

I've always shot every kid and they purchased packages later. I have considered only doing pre-sales, but never had since I don't do this often and don't have a reputation that people can trust. Something to think about. Thanks for the reply.

Glort

You don't really give much info for a person to make any targeted suggestions.
How do you work or want like to work or don't care? Do you pre print, take orders from proofs, on the computer????? How many kids etc? are you selling prints, digital or both? Do you shoot one week and sell the next with pre prints or do you bring back orders or????
It may seem irrelevant in the question of packages but I think backwards.

I don't want to be standing there explaining what this package has and the difference between that one and the other when there are 10 people impatiently standing in front of me. I'll loose more than I can make up. You have to be aware of your customer saturation rate and firstly work out what you can deal with allowing for the staff you may or may not have helping.

Shooters here all seem to work the same way from what I have seen.

Pics are all pre printed generally to 5x7 and laid out in sleeved books or on tables. Some have proof albums and take orders but from what I have heard, this is unpopular and also a PITA to deal with.

For pricing, it tends to go 1 Pic is this much, 2 that much 5 so much and 10 something else on a sliding scale. Some say 1-3 prints is this much ea, 4-7 is this much ea ETC. Enlargements are available as well. I have not seen much in the way of packages here and I'd probably be a bit wary of doing them. Much easier to put up a sign saying 1-3 pics is this much ea or 1 pic =, 2 pics = 8 pics= etc than mucking round explaining packages. Nad forget about signage, they will read and still ask about every one. I do packages for another market I do but it's not something I get hit with 40 parents all at once.
Parents here spend HUNDREDS on the pics and I think it's very few kids that are only in even 2-3 outfits/ routines.

I think it would be wise to firstly keep anything simple and secondly test market yourself before committing to any packages.

Without knowing the structure of the groups you are shooting as to numbers, when you can sell, time frames etc it's hard to suggest much more than this but over all I'd say forget trying to be too clever and keep it simple. A sliding scale pricing in groups or individuals would have the same effect as packages and probably be a whole load easier when doing volume sales that are difficult to predict numbers of.

Also think more about your bottom line and what is going to maximise that first.

jmphotocraft

I gave up on packages. I now sell coupons in advance like $25 worth of prints for $20, $50 for $40, $75 for $60, etc, and let the customer pick and choose whatever they want. Kind of tough to do if you don't have a SmugMug Business account though. I would advise you to look to switch to a pre-paid business model, and only shoot kids whose parents prepaid. Otherwise a lot of people will simply enjoy/use your photos online without buying, and then they're done with them. It can be done with a Portfolio account or less as long as you have a way to take payments up front, e.g. PayPal. If you are confident in your work this won't be a problem. If you don't have a reputation (or even if you do), offer a money-back satisfaction guarantee.

sellis

Thanks for the insight. I do have a pro account on SM. My plan is to shoot on a Saturday (every kid, every group) and return later in the week to do a sales session. Last year we tried doing sales on site (shooting tethered to a laptop) but it wasn't a smooth process.

My main issue is that parents don't want to buy a print, especially the group+individual print, of every outfit their kid wears. They want them, but it gets expensive, and I was looking for a simple solution to get them to buy more

Thanks,
Sam

Glort

I'm a bit surprised you guys seem to meet so much resistance there with these pics. Here they pretty much buy everything on offer. They whinge and complain about price but I have spoken to several people that have spent $400 or more on them.

It seems to me you have one big ace up your sleeve with this work, You have plenty of pictures to sell. Unlike many things I do, it's pretty well have 1 maybe 2 similar pics you can offer and even when I have shot multiple, generally they are the same thing and the clients tend to just pick the best one maybe 2.
With the dance you have all the different outfits and the variety of looks.

This makes me wonder about the resistance. Here a lot of shooters use the same background for every group and costume worn. If it were possible to do some variety there and make the BG more tied into the costumes and theme, that sure as hell couldn't hurt sales.

I like and do a lot of greenscreen and to me this seems like another perfect application. Is it possible you can get an idea of the outfits before hand from the teacher and have some Backgrounds lined up ready to drop the pics on? I did a gig before Christmas and offered a few Different BG's and let the clients choose which one they wanted. I printed out some samples to show them what they looked like and just wrote their choice on the order then dropped them on.

If you set up your screen right on the day, it's really easy as hell to put the pics together.
It seems to me people are always looking for something new, Innovative and fresh. Give it to them and they will buy very well.

The other thing is if you are offering the pics as a group WITH the individual shot instead of allowing them to purchase separately, I'd think about that. What they buy is not as important as how much they buy. If you are only selling a few of each group shot, I wouldn't worry. I'd concentrate on selling a pic of every individual.

The packages should be real simple. 5 shots is this much giving a saving of xxx, 10 shots is XXX. Their kid isn't in 10 shots? So? What about a shot for grandma or the lady next door or?? This is where being a professional comes in. Selling your work and maximising your returns rather than just being an order taker. And dont offer discounts on qtys you regularly sell anyway, there is no point in that. You need to get them spending MORE than average so that's when the savings on the packages kick in. You want to increase your average customer spend not just offer discounts to make them feel good.

And if they don't buy a single group, who cares? They won't let you not shoot them so it's just part of doing business. Last year I got a knock back on a gig and pulled the rabbit out of my hat on the spot with a new idea I had never done nor had anyone else. The client loved it and it got me the booking they had just blown me off for. We offered it as an option and only 3 people out of over 1000 took it up.

The thing was it got me back in the door for the gig I otherwise would have lost and I made over $5K doing what the organisers said they weren't interested in me doing.
Sometimes you have to win the deal by getting a yes on the little decision and taking the focus off the big one.

Painterskip

This topic interests me as I've taken the photos at my daughters dance studio. I don't really consider myself a professional photographer mostly because I don't shoot for a living....more a full time artist.

Having gotten that out of the way, before I did my first shoot 2 or 3 years ago, I searched and searched to find articles and accounts about dance studio photography. I even bought an e-book about it, which was very good. I'd post the name but it was lost in my great hard drive crash back in Jan. The one thing I remember reading was that dance school photos, as a business, is probably one of the tougher events at which to make a profit. But I tried it anyway.

Both years I offered pre-paid packages and pre-paid coupons for a set dollar amount. For example, I would charge $25.00 for $28 or $30 dollars worth of photos. The results were that out of approx. 80 students, I may have sold 10 packages and 10 coupons. But I DID charge a sitting fee, which if I recall, was $10. The first year it was $10 per student no matter how many costume changes they had. That was a mistake. The following year, I used a sliding scale something like $10 for one sitting, $15 for 2 or 3, and so on....something like that. But they would receive a free 5x7 for that sitting fee. That wasn't too much of a problem in terms of cost as I think I paid about 45 cents for each one (not through SmugMug).
Ultimately, i think I made about $840.00 or so in sitting fees alone that second year.

But here's were I shoot myself in the foot. Editing. I used two rolls of a medium grey paper as a backdrop. It had to be big enough to accommodate groups of as many as 13 dancers. There were a few shots where I had to 'Photoshop' around outstretched arms that went beyond the edge of the backdrop. And I had to edit out the seam between the floor and the wall. That part I can fix the next time. It was my inexperience that killed me there. Also, four nights of shoots take a toll on the paper.

Another thing I noticed was for both years, there's always a few customers who pay for their pre-paid credits coupons and never use them. Odd.

I've been told by the studio that the previous photographer, which was really two shooters and two assistants, shot all the photos in two nights and they printed everything they shot and had a booth set up at the recital, 3 weeks later, and they did very well. I'm sure they sold more than I since it's apparently the case that you will sell more product if the customer can see it in person. And at a recital, you not only get the parents, you usually get the grand parents, which means more sales. And they know that they must buy that night....or maybe they think that.

Anyway, I'm still not sure I'll do it again. If I do, I'm thinking that this time I'll once again charge a sitting fee but instead of prints, they'll get a selection of free email sized digital copies. And then if anyone wants prints, they can pre-pay for coupons and place the order at their leisure.
I do have to work on shooting smarter so I have less editing. Problem is, I love doing it....

Starman800

I like this thread and i posted this as a stand along cause i wanted to see what other thought about my pricing.

This will be my second year taken the portraits at my daughters dance studio. The first year was in 2015 and all we did was a CD, we charged $15 for the cd which gave them one Class, then for each additional Class/Costume we charged $2.00. We were doing basically the recital pictures, 4-6 shoots of the Individual, then the group/class shoot.

It turned out well, over 1800.00 in sales.

This year we are raising the rates for the Cd, but i also want to include Prints as well since i have signed up for a Photo lab. I have come up with some packages and don't want to charge to much since it is my daughters dance studio. So i charge up front/1st photo fee, then for each add'll class/costume

Package 1: CD Only Package 2: Prints
$20.00 - Cd & Cd Cover $15.00 - 1: 8x10 1: 5x7
$4.00 - Each Add'll Class 1: Wallets 8/cnt
$8.00 - Each Add'll Class

Package 3: Prints Package 4: Prints
$20.00 - Package 2 $10.00 - Memory Matte
1: Memory Matte $5.00 - Each Add'll Class
$10.00 - Each Add'll Class

Since most parents have there kids in more then on class, I want to make sure they can get those packages as well, but for a smaller rate.

What do you think? I will be doing Al La Carte stuff as well.

johng

Jeff - from a professional standpoint all the fees are too low in my opinion. It's one thing to donate time and provide a CD with everyone's photos on it. But when you start getting into individual CDs then individual prints - now you're really racking up additional time. If you're asking us if you're charging too much, the answer is definitely not. Here's a simple way to look at it:
Add up all the time spent with all activities related to the project for each resource and then calculate the hourly wage based upon your income. Now pay the appropriate taxes. So, even without equipment depreciation, how much hourly income are you bringing in after taxes?
To me, there is too much time invested to provide anything more than a single digital disc for such low prices. Even then, you need to be over the $25 an hour threshold.

Starman800

Johng: Thank you for your advice. I know my prices are low to start with. I am using special pricing for just this dance studio since my daughter dances there. Any other and i would have higher prices.

I'm just making sure i am doing it right with having on fee for the first Picture, then have a slightly lower fee for each follow up package since there are multiply Classes some of these girls are in..

jposada01

sellis wrote: »

I've done a few dance schools and have another one lined up. I'm trying to figure out a way to offer parents a deal when their child is in multiple groups. For example, we offer a package where they get an 8x10 of the entire group and a 5x7 individual in the outfit from that group, but some kids are in seven or eight different groups and they don't want to buy every one.
I'm very interested in hearing what others who actually shoot groups do.

I shoot dance studios and recitals. I try to use as few rules as possible. I shoot at the dance studio and I bring up to 3 studio lights and a backdrop. The schedule is defined ahead of time with the time for each group. I try to first shoot the group...this is usualy each group that will be performing in the recital. I use a dry-mark white board and write the first 3 letters of each student's last name. I shoot as many group shots as they want and I encourage it. Once the dance instructor has arranged 1-2 group poses, I then tell the group to change silly positions each time they hear the studio lights beep ready. The parents eat up these poses. I then shoot each student individualy, first with the white board with the first 3 letters of their last name. Again, I'll shoot as many poses as they want...don't worry, they usualy limit themselves to maybe 5 different poses.

I bring a brochure that I create, with the prices for the packages, which they can order online within about 2 weeks of the shoot. I also make available three package prices at 20% discount if they pay on the day of shoot. I take cash, check, or credit card.

Now, once I proces, I place each picture in folders by the 3-letter code. That means a group shot might have 7 or more codes. My processing software (Lightroom) allows me to assemble and output all the pictures for each key word, which I upload to Zenfolio, one folder per key word. ..that way the parent has all their pictures grouped (group shot and single student) in front of them.

Zenfolio allows them to pick from the group by dragging and dropping into a template and assemble only the pictures they want into the package.

I'll do about $2,000 business for each weekend that I schedule a shoot.

Starman800

jposada01 wrote: »

I shoot dance studios and recitals. I try to use as few rules as possible. I shoot at the dance studio and I bring up to 3 studio lights and a backdrop. The schedule is defined ahead of time with the time for each group. I try to first shoot the group...this is usualy each group that will be performing in the recital. I use a dry-mark white board and write the first 3 letters of each student's last name. I shoot as many group shots as they want and I encourage it. Once the dance instructor has arranged 1-2 group poses, I then tell the group to change silly positions each time they hear the studio lights beep ready. The parents eat up these poses. I then shoot each student individualy, first with the white board with the first 3 letters of their last name. Again, I'll shoot as many poses as they want...don't worry, they usualy limit themselves to maybe 5 different poses.

I bring a brochure that I create, with the prices for the packages, which they can order online within about 2 weeks of the shoot. I also make available three package prices at 20% discount if they pay on the day of shoot. I take cash, check, or credit card.

Now, once I proces, I place each picture in folders by the 3-letter code. That means a group shot might have 7 or more codes. My processing software (Lightroom) allows me to assemble and output all the pictures for each key word, which I upload to Zenfolio, one folder per key word. ..that way the parent has all their pictures grouped (group shot and single student) in front of them.

Zenfolio allows them to pick from the group by dragging and dropping into a template and assemble only the pictures they want into the package.

I'll do about $2,000 business for each weekend that I schedule a shoot.

When you take pictures at Dance Recitals. What type of lens do you use, where do you usually position yourself. Front, middle, back of venue. What settings do you use on your camera. I just got done shooting my daughters recital, I was in the back of the venue in the Audio both. Great spot too. I used a Canon T3i, with a rented Canon Pro Ultra f/2.8 55-200mm lens. I was shooting on Shutter priority mode about 1/200 and the camera used the f/2.8 setting. My Auto modes made the dances to hot due to the spot lights on the stage so it was Manual mode for me. I looking at the pictures and they are ok. But if you zoom into them with software they become blurry, When i zoomed in with the lens they came out fine. I'm just trying to find out what i could do to make it better then they are. First session was 2600 pictures, 2nd session was 1900, 3rd session was 1600 pictures taken. Non Teathered. I downloaded each session between session.

I used Portrait mode with my standard 55-70mm lens, and my 3 umbrella lights for the recital portraits i did at the studio. they came out GREAT! So far 1200 in sales, and still have about another 800 still out there..