Ooycz #5 Feathered friends

puzzledpaul

How I see this, as it might help others who don't usually take avian pics.

Pros
Some sort of action - portraits nice, but action / movement often more interesting.
Water splash pattern not too bad, no droplets obscuring eye.
Composition reasonable - but a bit more space in front of subject would've been nice.
PoV (low) as I prefer for this sort of subject / shot
Not a butt / retreating shot
No obvious 'hand of man' elements (btw -if trying to take pics of garden birds, try to use natural perches without any straight cuts thro same in frame)

Cons
Very flat, uninspiring light ... I cropped out some dull foreground water.
Background more defined than I'd like because of relative distances ...and type of vegetation @ rhs of frame.
Would prefer that the green in the bg not there
Water / bg horizon line more defined than I prefer
Not sure about neck / head line / angle.

Other
Bill open, tongue out would've been better
Better eye contact ditto

Preferred shot would've been this bird, together with (the) one chasing it, (in bg) both in frame, coming towards cam ... in better light

pp

JAG

many of your cons are because this was shot in the natural. With nature shots of animals, we cannot always have every aspect controlled such as lighting or even positions. However I agree with your pros for this image. Action is always better!

There is some things you can fix in post editing. Such as the lighting. I would recommend bumping up your saturation and contrast a bit. It was obvious that is was an overcast day (at least that is what it looks like to me) Which can play for your advantage in some cases so not to get too much water glare. Thus bumping up your saturation and contrast just a touch might get rid of the bland look of the lighting and define it better. Also, try running it through an HDR editor filter. Just to see if it helps. Also a trick I have used in the past is to do a copy of the image (BEFORE EDITING) and lay it on top of the original. Then do the editing of the saturation, contrast and HDR on that image. Next, on the layer under it, ever so slightly blur (do not over to do loose the water droplets) the image to give more of a distance to your background. On the top layer, remove the background (can be tedious, but worth the effect. Merge the images together as a complete image. This should bring your bird out more from the background and give it a slight more depth. Worth a try!

I would be interested in seeing what you could do with this.

Although I agree with the lack of space on the right, I do not think that would kill the image as a whole.

tinamarie52

Paul, you and Joyce have about covered it! The only thing I would add is there should be a catch light in the goose's eye.

puzzledpaul

As my main photographic interest is wildlife of some sort, I'm reasonably used / accustomed to having to deal with the issues natural light shooting imposes ... especially with what we often get in the UK

The first shot was taken on the first day I'd been out within this challenge timeframe ... and the main reason I did so was because the forecast was predicting 'sunny intervals with showers' ... so the prospect of rain in frame + light was attractive. However, this didn't materialise ... and 'grey elephants' were the order of the day.

The image was tweaked a little before posting - although I didn't bother with saturation ... I'm more of a 'murk' person than 'bright / high contrast / high sat' etc sorta bod ... I'm generally looking for something with a 'bit of atmosphere' ... rather than a detailed illustration ... even tho this goal is rarely achieved

I don't have access / use any HDR s/w ... and whilst I've done selective tone mapping in PS, I'll not bother with that for the same reason I'll not bother with the blurring of a second layer approach (with which I'm also familiar / have used) ... I don't consider this image worth the effort

To coin a phrase used during an election campaign on your side of the pond ... 'it's like sticking (painting?) lipstick on a pig' ... I'd much rather go out and try and get another image that's nearer to what I'm after.

Whilst I'm not one ... I believe one of skills of being a pro is to be able to edit / discard substandard stuff in a completely ruthless and dispassionate /objective manner.
Since this image is unlikely to have a life outside / beyond this brief period ...

I do find it encouraging, however, that my own analysis of the pic is very closely aligned with other's comments, tho.

Eye catchlight - good point - especially with dark eyes in dark plumage - there is one there, and could again be 'bumped up' on a local basis ... but it's a soft one, because not only was it a dull day, this is also a backlit scene

This is getting closer to the sort of pic / scene I'm looking for ... and apart from placing a potential crop area around it, I'll not give my opinions this time.

pp

Edit ... 'tip', maybe?
Re catchlight acquisition ... whilst I'd be using servo + motor drive for a shot like this, I'll sometimes use it for relatively static situations when subject isn't facing the way I want it to ... a 'double tap' often works, subject wonders where the first shutter release noise comes from, turns to cam and second one gets the shot ... or if it's accustomed to std shutter noise, switch to single shot silent (different sound) and do the same ... first to get attention, second ...

Alans Grin

Paul,

On your first shot, I agree with all your self critique if perhaps you are being a little harsh on yourself!
I suspect you could do a little more in post to liven it up a bit (assuming you shoot RAW?), but then again you may have already pushed it quite far from the original exposure.

Generically I find any shot where the "trail" (water splash, throw of snow in skiing etc) is an interesting element of the scene it creates cropping composition challenges, especially wrt to leaving space to move into.

Just one thought for me on this shot ... you could try loosing another 10% or more of the image height off the top edge of the frame to go "more widescreen". This could create a more dramatic emphasis of horizontal movement, add more emphasis of the space for the bird to fly into and I feel the top 10% of the frame is not needed to add any more context and perhaps not "adding" anything. I don't think loosing the little spray up there would decrease the impact.

Just a thought,
Alan.

puzzledpaul

Alan - thanks for having a shufties and taking the time to comment.

I agree with the crop suggestion ... and don't know why I didn't do it in the first place, because since xmas I've been cropping a fair few pics to HD / 16:9 / 1.77:1 shape, as my older daughter bought me a cheap (but decent screen quality imo) tablet to use as a mobile gallery when at usual venue.

Crop as shown here is 1.67:1 ... it might even stand more than the amount you suggest ... will look ... ta

'being a little harsh on yourself' ... well, maybe ... but since this was shot at a regular haunt, I've got a pretty good feel for how the bg / horizon blend can be when things are better, and ditto with the way the bg itself renders under different light and seasonal shifts.

Water trails / splashes etc ... yep,can be a right pita compositionally speaking ... because they can be so attractive,when the light is good / 'right'
I just had a quick look at this frame + following ones to see if I could nick a bit of bg to add in front of the subject ... but don't think so ... another advantage of a more blurred bg, rather than the 'noughts 'n crosses' stuff on the rhs here.

If got time will re-visit ... but the more I look at this, the more I dislike the neck / head angle

Btw ... whilst I've no issues with trying to get a half decent pic of a goose, this is essentially one of a grab shot sequence (I heard the goose commotion, turned and fired)... Another local 'tog had texted me that there was a pair of red crested pochard at this venue and altho' I'm not a twitcher, it seemed a good idea to see something different.
The male did his bit of weed wooing ... and got lucky

pp

puzzledpaul

<< With nature shots of animals, we cannot always have every aspect controlled such as lighting or even positions. >>

True ... but, depending on what you're after, and the way that you go about things, then opportunities / potential can often be improved / maximised thro' familiarity of of the environment / behaviour of subjects.

With wildlife, a 'tog can either move around looking for suitable subjects, or be stationary, and hope that subjects come out to play. With the gear I use and the way it's generally used (close to water level), the second way is the only practical method - afaik

This grebe shot was taken under similar conditions to the original pic in this thread, but the bg has rendered in a far more acceptable manner (to me) than the goose frame. (4 white bits are oof insects, btw)



My local venue (country park) is about 15mins bike ride away and is not only frequented by all manner of dog walkers / joggers / duck feeders / other cyclists etc etc ... but, joy of joy, has all manner of other 'attractions' present to make life interesting such as this particular backdrop.
The other three pics were taken with this backdrop (or similar, neighbouring part of that vista) ... but at times of day /circumstances that allowed me to control the junk to some degree or other.
Yes, a couple of the frames are fairly 'static' ...but I've included them as examples of potential examples of 'silk purses out of sow's ears' for people who have to deal with similar environments.
The vast majority of other 'togs (even those with decent gear) who I've seen wandering around this venue, taking pics stand no chance whatsoever (imo) in capturing anything like even the two (fairly static, boring?) shots because they're there at the wrong time, wrong level / pov and environmental conditions.
Obviously if they're after Bif shots, that's a different matter (re pov) but they're often taking pics of waterfowl from normal standing position.

I'm obviously hoping for better opportunities (as mallard landing) ... but if I see a shot as per the other 2 I'll take them.




This is the same mallard as in the combo ... but it's a bit of a 'stitch up' as I added a bit of canvas from the next frame to frame right.
I mentioned previously the advantage (imo) of having a certain sort of bg which makes such things easier.This has been added here as a fairly simple example. The jury's still out, btw about whether the top sunline would be better cropped out / left in ... since this also had the house 'backdrop', I opted for the latter course here, to give an idea of sun / treetop interaction.




Another 2 frame stitch, added canvas to rhs.
The original frame would've stood cropping ok (just), but compositionally would probably have meant cropping out the LHS water splash / ripple (which I like) ... so, I went for this option instead
In spite of the subject being fairly small in frame and, in fact travelling away from cam, there are several things I actually quite like this pic.



Unfortunalely, I've realised that the timing of the latter stages of this ooycz co-incide with me not being in a position to continue in the 'proper' manner, so whilst I'll add some comments / critiques to the other entrants threads (as of today), I'll not be taking my entry any further.

If people make comments about any of my recently posted pics, I might well be able to respond over the next couple of days - otherwise, it'll be a couple of weeks or so.

My aim is to try and take a half decent pic of even (to the average twitcher) 'boring / common' subjects ... in sometimes less than ideal circumstances. Since I suspect there are others in similar situations to myself, I hope they'll get something of use from the above.

I don't consider the mere presence of a rare / exotic species in the pic to automatically make that pic a 'good' one

pp

btw - all images taken with a 1Dm3 + 500f4 (+angle finder)
Cam / lens resting on a bean bag made from a (£1 shop) neoprene tablet cover, filled with a couple of kg birdseed.
BBag resting on a home-made turntable, semi-submerged in water @ water's edge, giving approx one inch of daylight / clearance between lens hood / water surface.

jwear

I would try blow it up just a bit cut down by 1/2 space on left that will make the space on the right look bigger darken the rear wing a little if you want the green gone a fast clone would take that out by 80% add just a bit of light to the eye area.The action shot you got but wanting more light ,beak open tongue out ,angle of the neck then you have to go to church before you pu the camera .
The mallard shot I would cut down the space on the right just a bit but I bet dgrinners would like that shot and it has MY hawks wing position really I like the color and comp .

puzzledpaul

Thanks Jeff for the comments

If I get around to tweaking the original shot, I'll certainly consider your suggestions too ... the church option is not one that's open to me, however ... so I'll just have to keep trying ... and hoping

Re the mallard shot - if might add (at some time) a cropped / non-stitched version of the original ... which might satisfy the comments you made ... it would certainly increase subject size in frame - but dunno so much about comp - it's all so subjective - and, like others, I like decent, frame filling shots, I also like ones that have a small subject in frame.

As Art Morris' 'Birds as Art' site has, I believe, a 'small subject in frame' forum ... it would seem I'm not alone in this

pp

jwear

You mentioned (in my thread) that the mallard shot has a similar wing position - which of course it has - but the angle and lighting differences produce a resulting shape that separates the 2 wings in both silhouette and colours - since both wings on your shot render as similar colours, they tend (to my eye) blend together.
(Am not saying one's better than t'other - just trying to unpick what I see)

I think if you read it again ,what it does say is I like that shot best and the wing position was a JOKE =smiley face and really I like this one the best! It was not in anyway to say they are the same Jeff

puzzledpaul

Just a shame we can't be sitting in a bar / pub with a laptop discussing this sort of stuff - less chance of misunderstandings - and any that might occur would probably be forgotten after a few beers

pp

jwear

I hve a glass of wine and forget ----what ??????????????? enter the mallard !!!!!!

sapphire73

Ooycz #5 Feathered friends
Sorry to hear you won't be taking your entry further but understand....