I Give Up II
I thought about adding this to the thread started by jmphotocraft but I’m afraid it would get lost in the shuffle so I am bringing it up on a new thread. In response to his question and others like it as how do you get people to buy your images, I found that you have to offer something a little extra.
Before I get to the heart of my response I will be right up front with everyone that I am not a full time photographer . . . yet. I am still about 3 years away from retirement with an eye on continuing photography as a substantial addition to my “post work” income. Right now I am still in the “free-lance” stage working part time for a few of the area small town newspapers and selling directly to area schools and parents, which I have been doing for the past 14 years. So although I too see the impact of parents being satisfied with having a simple, crude smart phone image of little Jimmy or Jane not even in an action shot, right now it does not affect me that much as it does many others reading this thread.
That being said, a few years ago I did realize this was the case as I noticed that some of the parents showing up at the games with low priced DSL cameras never bought my pictures. Searching for some answers, I turned to the “Grinners” to see what they were doing about this problem and I read about some others creating posters and collages to increase their sales.
Three years and many hours of frustration later, I finally have gotten to the point where parents are contacting me now for my work. I made quite a bit of money off of my collages this past year. Here are a few examples.
How did I create these collages? I am not a tech whiz kid by any stretch of the imagination and I operate on a small budget. So you could say I did these on the “cheap” side. They were created with Photoshop Elements 10 ($80), a set of royalty free stock image CDs ($20), and a set of custom brushes bought off of eBay ($20), plus many hours of experimentation figuring out how to put these tools to work.
I also joined Woody Walters World http://www.woodywaltersdigitalphotocandy.com/ to get pointers, learn how to create posters, use Photoshop tools, and even buy a few custom backgrounds at reasonable prices on their “40% off Fridays” specials. When you get good enough you can create your own backgrounds. I am at the point now where I bought a new football, basketball, and volleyball and created some of my own custom backgrounds.
I also took advantage of having a zoo 45 miles away to get some stock photos of animals commonly used as school mascots.
Although my backgrounds and themes might be different, they all share one common characteristic – they have a non-action shot + at least one action shot. All my images are non-posed . . . the action shots came from games I was covering and the non-action shots came from the players in their “pre-game” warm-ups. I always get shots of players as they are warming up . . . I am at the game early anyway getting my camera settings down, so why not make use of my time.
And think of this . . . your action shots don’t necessarily have to be game shots. If your work includes “senior pictures”, you can easily get some faux action shots and work them into your own creation. Most seniors want to have some shots of them in their high school sports game gear anyway, so why not put those shots and your time taking them to good work? Now is the time to get going on that idea.
In closing, I am NOT bragging but rather just offering some advice to those feeling pinched by seeing their sales drop off more and more each year. Long story short – offer something parents love but can’t get for nothing.
Before I get to the heart of my response I will be right up front with everyone that I am not a full time photographer . . . yet. I am still about 3 years away from retirement with an eye on continuing photography as a substantial addition to my “post work” income. Right now I am still in the “free-lance” stage working part time for a few of the area small town newspapers and selling directly to area schools and parents, which I have been doing for the past 14 years. So although I too see the impact of parents being satisfied with having a simple, crude smart phone image of little Jimmy or Jane not even in an action shot, right now it does not affect me that much as it does many others reading this thread.
That being said, a few years ago I did realize this was the case as I noticed that some of the parents showing up at the games with low priced DSL cameras never bought my pictures. Searching for some answers, I turned to the “Grinners” to see what they were doing about this problem and I read about some others creating posters and collages to increase their sales.
Three years and many hours of frustration later, I finally have gotten to the point where parents are contacting me now for my work. I made quite a bit of money off of my collages this past year. Here are a few examples.
How did I create these collages? I am not a tech whiz kid by any stretch of the imagination and I operate on a small budget. So you could say I did these on the “cheap” side. They were created with Photoshop Elements 10 ($80), a set of royalty free stock image CDs ($20), and a set of custom brushes bought off of eBay ($20), plus many hours of experimentation figuring out how to put these tools to work.
I also joined Woody Walters World http://www.woodywaltersdigitalphotocandy.com/ to get pointers, learn how to create posters, use Photoshop tools, and even buy a few custom backgrounds at reasonable prices on their “40% off Fridays” specials. When you get good enough you can create your own backgrounds. I am at the point now where I bought a new football, basketball, and volleyball and created some of my own custom backgrounds.
I also took advantage of having a zoo 45 miles away to get some stock photos of animals commonly used as school mascots.
Although my backgrounds and themes might be different, they all share one common characteristic – they have a non-action shot + at least one action shot. All my images are non-posed . . . the action shots came from games I was covering and the non-action shots came from the players in their “pre-game” warm-ups. I always get shots of players as they are warming up . . . I am at the game early anyway getting my camera settings down, so why not make use of my time.
And think of this . . . your action shots don’t necessarily have to be game shots. If your work includes “senior pictures”, you can easily get some faux action shots and work them into your own creation. Most seniors want to have some shots of them in their high school sports game gear anyway, so why not put those shots and your time taking them to good work? Now is the time to get going on that idea.
In closing, I am NOT bragging but rather just offering some advice to those feeling pinched by seeing their sales drop off more and more each year. Long story short – offer something parents love but can’t get for nothing.
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Comments
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Thanks for the positive feedback!
I create them in a 20" X 16" poster size and right now those are priced at $35. The good thing about the 20" X 16" size is that they can easily be down sized to an 8" X 10" . . . which is my biggest sellers at $16. And I make sure that I leave enough space around the borders so they can be cropped to 5" X 7"s too. BUT seeing as I am the only one in the area who offers this service it goes without saying that the prices will at least double next season.
That one was one of the easier ones to make . . . and it sold 2 8" X 10's right away.
I was just going to post about 6 or 7 but then I could not decide which ones to leave out . . . my bad.
They certainly are worth the money you are asking - they look great! I admit it does take some time to put these together but (1) The more I do I get more efficient at it (2) I save all images in both a jpeg format and the PDF format so that in case someone asks to have one done with "so and so's" background all I have to do is swap out the pictures which saves a ton of time (3) Up here in the Great White North there isn't that much to do in the middle of winter except stare at the TV so I keep busy with these. I know it gets cold in Maine too, we lived in South Berwick from 87 to 89.
Again - thanks for the feedback and keep up with your cards, they look great!
Those were two posters and a magazine cover. I don't have a trading card online at the moment to share.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Both of you are going beyond documentary photography and entering the art realm.
The image assemblies are really good and original and the buyers are stealing them
Thanks very much for the compliment!
I hear what you are saying. It wasn't until this winter that I really started using all the tools available to me. I wish to refer to my pricing for this season's images as "introductory". Next year I am going to request a lot more for this kind of service.
And again, anyone out there doing senior pictures this summer . . . you might want to look into offering this kind of service.
WOW! Thanks for the compliments and criticism. Really - I take everything you just said seriously . . . I am not offended at all. And I have never had any pro ever lend this kind of compliment to my work.
Like I said earlier, it really wasn't until this sports season that I really hit my stride. As I look back at some of my work I did even last year I just cringe.
I hear your concerns about me "cutting the throats" of the competition here. But here is the situation here . . . I am the only one in this area shooting "small town" high school sports. There are at least 3 professional studios in town and NEVER ONCE in the past 15 years have I ever seen a one of them out on the fields or on the courts getting any action shots. When it comes to high school sports they could care less. Conversely, I don't do family or senior sessions at all so I am not even stepping on their toes in that arena. I am just filling a void that nobody else wants to fill.
And I know that you and others are concerned about the time involved in creating these images . . . it does take time. BUT you need to understand that in the middle of winter in this part of the world there really isn't much to do. The winters are brutally cold here. It's either watch TV or do something constructive. This is how I chose to fill my long winter days.
And honestly, I knew I was getting better at it but until I started getting feedback from pros like you I did not realize that they were that good. The measuring stick I was using is the work that Woody Walters puts out - http://www.woodywaltersdigitalphotocandy.com/ You say you have searched google looking for this type of work and couldn't find it . . . well here it is. Not only will you find BRILLIANT examples of this work but you can shop around for backgrounds a hell of a lot better than mine, and watch tips and tricks as to how he creates his images. I am not connected with him at all but I did join his online club "Woody's World" which gets me breaks on his products on top of his 40% Off Friday specials.
You can find really cool "drag & drop" backgrounds for like $12 on Fridays . . . I have bought a few myself.
But taking the feedback from you (and others here), I am really starting to rethink my pricing for next season.
Again, thanks for the input and no, I am not offended by what you have to say. I just consider it constructive criticism.
Mark
Stripping the original bg and replacing with one that's in keeping with colour, attitude and 'feel' for the main subject is what sets this sort of image way beyond the 'mom / pop' snapshots ... if you've got a 'standard' shot - with original bg ... no matter how good, I can see that the average punter would invariably think that it's little different through their eyes, than one they've taken themselves.
btw Adding numbers to your shots would've made it easier for viewers to pick out the ones that work even better than the others ... and might have given you even more uaseful feedback.
Also I think it's important to be constantly aware of the way the text content is handled - not to go back to the early days of DTP and have an absolute blizzard of different typefaces / colours etc ... less is very often more (to me, anyway)
Glort's comment re the business aspect has that side sewn up - as is often the case, imo.
My comments are based purely on the graphical impact the images have on me - albeit from a amateur 'duck-snapper's' perspective - where I consider the background element v. important.
pp
Flickr
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
He was learning and experimenting and the results are good and will get better (getting criticisms as posted)
Now he has to learn some business acumen.
Go where the money is if you want to make some.
Maybe attend some equestrian events with the cam & start experimenting there ( and lift prices substantially)
Some people with money devalue reasonably priced products (and value expensive stuff like Rolex);
you gotta get some Rolex attitude...
Thanks for your input.
As far as the photographic content, I work with what I have available to me . . . which are images that were not posed and shot under less than favorable conditions. The other thing I have working against me is that I shoot images of the action in general. If it were the situation where I could focus all my attention on just one player for the whole game I am sure I would have more to choose from. I will be back next year with better results.
Mark
I hear what you are saying - I am spending too much time and not making enough money. Point taken. And thanks for the advice - Mark
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Please read more carefully before getting offended, obviously I said overall the work is outstanding and extremely marketable.
Oh I know how it is. Sometimes you and the camera do everything right, and the kid makes a really ugly face and the photo is worthless. Or sometimes the kid just never gets the ball. There is almost never time to get a thrilling action shot or even a decent candid of every player on a team in one game. Or sometimes you just miss the shot.
Question - do you make these "on spec"? Like, you make them first and then show the parents/players and hope they buy? Or are all these done by request? If the former, I think if you're going to be selling these very special collages for the price they should command, in your shoes I think I would make collages with the photos that are obviously compelling, and then give the rest of the players and their parents the option of having a collage made with what you have. You could present some of your past work that you have done with less-than-thrilling shots as examples of what the final product can look like.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
A former sports shooter
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Wasn't offended at all and reading again, your position was far from clear.
As far as saying the work is outstanding and extremely marketable, I don't see that either. The compliments you did pay were far outweighed by the criticisms.
Anyhow, now we are all clear, we can get on with any further discussion of the point of the thread.
"These are great, I'm not surprised they sell. ... Love the red glow around the players in the first one."
"The graphic art value of these is off the charts, of course"
What are these forums for if not for constructive criticism?
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I did the earlier ones on "spec". Although I wouldn't actually complete the whole collage, I pretty much knew which players were going to be named to the end of season "All Conference" teams. I then started to put together images of only those specific players and then when the "All Conference" teams were named all I had to do was complete the lettering. I then posted them in a special folder with in that related sports.
It was the "luck of the draw" when I did the Wilmot/Hamlin football game. There were at least 7 mothers from Hamlin there with decent cameras and lenses. It was at this moment that I told myself that if I were going to get any sales from the other side I was going to have to offer them something they didn't already have . . . action shots of their sons "and then some more". I knew they had a hell of a team so I hedged my time and focused on the images I took from that game. My hunch was right . . . they came within 2 points of winning the state championship. They played their championship game on Thursday, that Sunday they named the South Dakota All State Teams. That Tuesday I posted my collages and sold at least 2 of each one I did for that team.
Knowing who was willing to pay for my work, I again hedge my bet and chose to cover the Milbank/Hamlin basketball game instead of another local game. I sold quite a few basketball pictures from that game before I even started creating any basketball collages.
So yes, while I started out doing a lot of these on "speculation", it wasn't "blind speculation". I have a real good hunch now who will buy from me and who won't.
And to finish your question, it kind of surprised me the "request sales" I got this spring for graduations. But then again, as a lot of others have brought to my attention, at my prices I shouldn't be surprised.
Next year will be more of a test of the real demand for my images when the prices go up.
Thanks for the compliment . . . I appreciate it.
I agree that some are kind of "busy", but I try to include all relevant information on the image - especially the "All Conference" honors.
One mistake I was making that was contributing to some of the un-needed clutter was right before my eyes - all of my still, "pre-game" images of the players have them in their "warm up" shirts. So why was I wasting space (for example) of putting "Wilmot Wolves" on the image when it's already spelled out on their warm-up shirts? Duh!
Correcting that bonehead mistake really "cleaned up" my later images.
I agree with you on that one. #20 - the one with the girl dribbling the ball + the close up of the Wolf + the "pre-game" shot all merged together is one of my favorites. Lettering or extra graphics to an image like that would do nothing but detract from it.
And after choosing which images to use, it took about 10 minutes to compose. I took the picture of the girl dribbling the ball and did a "gradient merge" with the close up of the Wolf , and then took that composition and did another "gradient merge" with the picture of "pre-game" shot.