Customer's favorites vs photographer's

jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
edited May 28, 2014 in Sports
Here is a series of action shots of a particular player. See if you can guess which 1 photo the customer ordered:

1
5D3_4745-X2.jpg

2
5D3_4746-X2.jpg

3
5D3_4750-X2.jpg

4
5D3_4751-X2.jpg
-Jack

An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.

Which 1 photo did the customer order? 16 votes

1
31% 5 votes
2
43% 7 votes
3
6% 1 vote
4
18% 3 votes

Comments

  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited May 19, 2014
    I went for 1. It's the least spectacular and easiest to do themselves which they are probably used to seeing.

    4 would be my 2nd choice because it's the least flattering and astheticaly pleasing and balanced but they often see things in pics we don't. Maybe it's the kids look which the parent well knows or they see something else in it.

    One thing is for sure, they seldom pick the best shot from a photographic standpoint.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 20, 2014
    Glort wrote: »
    4 would be my 2nd choice because it's the least flattering and astheticaly pleasing and balanced

    least?
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • TonyCooperTonyCooper Registered Users Posts: 2,276 Major grins
    edited May 20, 2014
    I take photos (as an amatuer) so I don't buy them, but I take photos
    of all the players on the team and post them to a Snapfish site the
    team put up.

    I would put up #2 for this player on the basis that it's the one the
    parents would like to see on the site. My own preference is #3
    because there's more intensity there.
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
  • jmp2204jmp2204 Registered Users Posts: 197 Major grins
    edited May 20, 2014
    i voted parent picked 1 , i would buy #3
  • nipprdognipprdog Registered Users Posts: 660 Major grins
    edited May 20, 2014
    jmp2204 wrote: »
    i voted parent picked 1 , i would buy #3

    Same here.
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    So when is the Mystery Solved??
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    Poll closes on Monday morning. Or should I just tell now?
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    Tell me now! Tell me now! I voted 2. :)

    By the way I had this problem way back when I was shooting motocross. I got feedback that my shots were too "artistic".
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    If you guessed number 2...
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    You're wrong!! The customer chose number 1 and 1 only. ne_nau.gif

    Personally I like 1 the least, and I think I like 4 the best followed closely by 3. I think 4 is a slightly better baseball pitcher pose than 3, and since I know this kid I think 3 betrays the fact that he hunches his shoulders in the first part of his delivery. I do like the grip on the ball in 3.

    Anyway, I'm just dumbfounded. I don't know why anyone would buy 1 if they were only going to buy one print. I could see buying 1 with one other, or all four, but just 1? Really? :snore

    Clearly I have no idea what I'm doing.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • FergusonFerguson Registered Users Posts: 1,345 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    Clearly I have no idea what I'm doing.

    I just finished doing cards for a team. I shot about 7 games of action shots, sorted them all by player pulling only the shots with the player isolated. I set them up in a gallery so they could choose, but I pulled my choices out first and proposed them.

    I didn't keep careful count but I'd bet not only did I pick the right one less than half the time, some of the shots they picked were really surprising. One in particular I had 24 action shots, probably at least a dozen of which were decent. Fielding, throwing, several base running, one iconic batting shot in the follow through (two ball on bat ones but inadequate face showing).

    They picked one with him stepping into the place at the plate and bat held loosely where his helmet hides his eyes completely. It's a clear shot of the body, and it was a day the stadium was full (they like full backgrounds if the stands show), but... no eyes? Go figure.

    My theory is that as photographers we have these innate rules we've learned, and judge shots by them, whether we know we are or not. Others just look at them and react, they aren't judging them by any rules other than their immediate reaction. The result is we see them very differently.

    As a simple example I try to discard any shot not sharp and focused. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a great action shot.

    When I process my wife's photos (she's not into computers), she insists on keeping absolutely awful shots - focus, exposure, blur everything bad -- because it's a shot of an interesting subject. Since I don't like sleeping alone I edit her way then, but it's painful and boggles my mind.

    But she just plain doesn't see those things the same way, especially if her attention is not called to it, but to some extent even if it is.

    Perception is always contextual, we judge based on what we are looking for in a shot, and different people look for different things. Here you are asking a bunch of photographers -- don't be surprised if they all agree with you, mostly.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    Thanks for that story Ferguson. I think it doesn't matter whether you are a trained photographer or not, just whether you have an eye for good photos. I have no formal training other than the trial and error it took to arrive at what I like to see in a photo.

    And yeah, I have no understanding for keeping poor photos just based on sheer content. Sure, if that's the ONLY record you have of a special memory, keep it. Otherwise, wtf? I also don't get when people on fb fawn all over crappy photos and selfies. OOF, underexposed, overexposed, backlit, terrible comp, finger over the lens, it does not seem to matter to many people.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • QarikQarik Registered Users Posts: 4,959 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    As I a parent I might have ordered 1 as well. It's boring but that's kinda what I want. Just a good neutral shot.
    D700, D600
    14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
    85 and 50 1.4
    45 PC and sb910 x2
    http://www.danielkimphotography.com
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    Qarik wrote: »
    As I a parent I might have ordered 1 as well. It's boring but that's kinda what I want. Just a good neutral shot.

    Why??
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • AlamethAlameth Registered Users Posts: 94 Big grins
    edited May 23, 2014
    FWIW....

    My kid's a pitcher. If I'm buying, it's #4, no doubt at all. But I also like #2.

    I'd show the kid #3 because it shows flaws in his mechanics. But, for the same reason, I would not buy it.
  • AlamethAlameth Registered Users Posts: 94 Big grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    I'm having a lot of fun reading the threads here, hope you don't mind a non-professional newbie dropping in.
    Ferguson wrote: »
    When I process my wife's photos (she's not into computers), she insists on keeping absolutely awful shots - focus, exposure, blur everything bad -- because it's a shot of an interesting subject. Since I don't like sleeping alone I edit her way then, but it's painful and boggles my mind.

    Heh. I call that "S.I. Shots" vs. "Dad Shots." A pro friend of mine produced the most stunning baseball photos imaginable; his worst put my best to shame. But he was driving the parents crazy specifically because he was being too selective. They seemed to expect a certain quantity and some variety, not just quality. For me as a team photographer, it just seemed like I had happier parents if I kept in some of the shots that were photographically lousy but an interesting or unique subject.

    In my (limited) experience it also makes a huge difference how knowledgable the parents are about the sport: indeed, I think it matters more than knowledge of photography. You'd be surprised how many sports dads don't know squat about the game. (Of course, they like to tell you how to coach the team anyway.)
  • AlamethAlameth Registered Users Posts: 94 Big grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    I do like the grip on the ball in 3.

    Agreed. I have had experienced sports parents pick shots entirely because of the grip on the ball (and told me so). I still wouldn't purchase it, though, because my kid would look at it 10 years later and demand to know why I kept a picture with him hunching his shoulders like that! rolleyes1.gif
  • AlamethAlameth Registered Users Posts: 94 Big grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    Ferguson wrote: »
    When I process my wife's photos (she's not into computers), she insists on keeping absolutely awful shots - focus, exposure, blur everything bad -- because it's a shot of an interesting subject. Since I don't like sleeping alone I edit her way then, but it's painful and boggles my mind.

    Here's my exhibit A. The parents loved this shot; so did the kid. (Right after this he smashes into that fence, ball in glove.) You don't have to tell me how photographically dubious it is; I know; that's my point.
  • puzzledpaulpuzzledpaul Registered Users Posts: 1,621 Major grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    Alameth wrote: »
    Here's my exhibit A. The parents loved this shot; so did the kid. (Right after this he smashes into that fence, ball in glove.) ...

    Yes, I can see why they'd like it ... it's a reminder of a significant event (collision) that they can reminisce over - rather than yet another random catch / throw / pitch etc shot of their offspring that could've been taken at more or less any time / place / event.

    pp
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    I think this just brings up the actual gap between what photographers like and what the general public likes. We get caught up in the technicals and forget the emotional connections people have with photographs, especially when their kids are in them.

    And the parents probably like 1 because they can see the concentration in their sons face.
  • lifeinfocuslifeinfocus Registered Users Posts: 1,461 Major grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    Hmm, I guessed number 2 because the face is visible and is not a "technical" shot, that is it does not show much action. I am surprised number 1 was selected.

    When I take photos of kids at church events, I select the ones I like best and process them. Then I go back and add more because it is hard to know what others may like unfortunately.

    Thanks for posting this.
    http://www.PhilsImaging.com
    "You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
    Phil
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    jonh68 wrote: »
    I think this just brings up the actual gap between what photographers like and what the general public likes. We get caught up in the technicals and forget the emotional connections people have with photographs, especially when their kids are in them.

    In general I agree but I would have thought in this case that sports knowledge would be the equalizer.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • toragstorags Registered Users Posts: 4,615 Major grins
    edited May 24, 2014
    I talked to my bride about your dilemma.

    She brought up an interesting point.

    What were the husbands choices?

    I would guess they would be action shots because guys are more interested in sports....
    Rags
  • bobpalbobpal Registered Users Posts: 47 Big grins
    edited May 25, 2014
    Heck, I shoot college sports and my rule is if I wouldn't be embarrassed by it being on someone's refrigerator I put it in the gallery. Parents pick/don't pick the strangest/best pictures I take. Sometimes I want to delete every other frame in a 12fps sequence but I don't. I've seen them all sell, the entire sequence. I've stopped trying to predict.
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited May 27, 2014
    Parents typically want just two types of photos: shots that capture important moments of an event, and aesthetically pleasing sportraits of their kids. The former don't have to be great photographically, and the latter require that their kids look good (i.e. no goofy faces or cottage cheese thighs). Beyond that, most parents don't really care.
  • jmphotocraftjmphotocraft Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
    edited May 27, 2014
    Agreed, John, but I would have thought 2, 3, and 4 were all better sportraits than 1, by any criteria.
    -Jack

    An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited May 27, 2014
    Agreed, John, but I would have thought 2, 3, and 4 were all better sportraits than 1, by any criteria.

    Because 1 has that moment of implied action. You are looking at it from a sports photographers perspective of catching action which many/most people don't appreciate.

    I'm looking at 1 as a portrait, not a sports picture and this is what the parents see. It would even be stronger with a tighter crop from the waste up. Also his face is in total shadow which again is more pleasing subconsciously than a face in and out of shadow.
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited May 28, 2014
    jonh68 wrote: »
    I think this just brings up the actual gap between what photographers like and what the general public likes. We get caught up in the technicals and forget the emotional connections people have with photographs, especially when their kids are in them.

    AMEN!

    I picked no.1 as what the customer bought, gave my reasons and am not the slightest bit surprised. I have done enough events long enough to see that coming. So many times have I shot what I thought were prize winner shots only to have the client get excited about some meat and potatoes shot that anyone could have got.... and what they probably did.

    They don't look at all the crap shooters drivel on with about wether this lens is sharper than that or nit pick shadow detail and minute blow highlights or have long boring RAW/ jpeg debates and all the other things photographers THINK is important.
    Now no doubt I have to state the bleeding obvious before someone with no other worthwhile input says I don't care about quality. I do but my standards well surpass the clients even if I'm not chasing perfection.

    Instead of worrying about photographic perfection, I spend a load of time talking to my clients and finding out what they want. Why put effort into something that will gain me no extra appreciation or client sales?
    One thing I did well with when I did equine work was when the kids fell off. Everyone seemed to love the wide eyed expressions and open mouths and would come to me to see if I caught the action. Often these were technically crap shots.... bad angles, focus may not be great, camera movement blur... You name it. NEVER did that stop me selling not only one pic but generally a whole series.

    Don't know how many pics have sold of kids sitting on a horse in the marshaling yard before their ride in the arena, kids sitting on benches for baseball, soccer and football games, even adult Drag racers in the pits when I did Drag and circuit racing pics.

    Clients don't give a Damn about what lens you used, what camera, raw/ jpeg/ ISO, they aren't photographers and the content is what they worry about not the quality.
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