Problems with Calibration

DogdotsDogdots Major grinsRegistered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
edited September 14, 2014 in Digital Darkroom
A month ago my Dell 2209WA monitor wouldn't calibrate or I should say my calibration wouldn't 'hold' and after it was set it would change. Change would be color changes and the monitor was brighter. I contacted Dell and they sent out a refurbished video card (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660) and motherboard since my sound wasn't working. During this time I bought a new monitor from BH - a Dell U2412M in hopes of having 2 monitors up and running.

I used my i1Display 2 to calibrate the new monitor with the video card and mother board that Dell had replaced. I'm still having the same problems. The calibration doesn't hold. Today I again calibrated my monitor and an hour later I checked the settings because the monitor had gone brighter and the color had changed. I don't even know if checking settings after they've been set are accurate or not - hopefully you can tell me if it is or not. I checked the Luminance and RGB and this is what I got.

Calibration was set at -
Luminance - 120.6
RGB - 6500

After an hour the change was -
Luminance - 110.4
RGB - 6300

What can I do to stop this from happening? I've even uninstalled my i1 software and reinstalled in hopes that would help. It has not.

I'm hoping someone can help me as it's becoming very frustrating.
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Comments

  • basfltbasflt Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    You tried installing latest driver for the GTX 660 from nVidia site ?

    Set it to default settings and re-calibrate .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    basflt wrote: »
    You tried installing latest driver for the GTX 660 from nVidia site ?

    Set it to default settings and re-calibrate .

    I have not driver updates from the website, but though the Device Manager. All settings were set to default prior to calibrating. I'll check the website for drivers.
  • basfltbasflt Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    For nVidia i advice to check nVidia site and update regularly .http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
    Latest version for your card seems to be from from march .http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/73780/en-us
    Forget Device Manager , you ( normally ) dont need it .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    basflt wrote: »
    For nVidia i advice to check nVidia site and update regularly .http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
    Latest version for your card seems to be from from march .http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/73780/en-us
    Forget Device Manager , you ( normally ) dont need it .

    Thank you so much. I downloaded their driver updater that lets me know if there is an update, but it kept running and running without any notices being given. I'll not use the Device Manager :D
  • basfltbasflt Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    Think the updater did not detect aproper NVidia driver .
    Download the recommended driver for your card and system first and install it .
    The software needed for the update feature is included , so you can use it later .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    basflt wrote: »
    Think the updater did not detect aproper NVidia driver .
    Download the recommended driver for your card and system first and install it .
    The software needed for the update feature is included , so you can use it later .

    I will do that now and then recalibrate my monitor. Again I thank you :D
  • basfltbasflt Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    No problem ,Mary .

    I hope you get it working as it should .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 11, 2014
    basflt wrote: »
    No problem ,Mary .

    I hope you get it working as it should .

    Download is complete. I'll calibrate this evening and let you know how it's working.
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 21, 2014
    Sorry I'm so late in letting you know how the calibration went, but I have a foster dog that is keeping me on my toes :D

    I was able to calibrate my monitor tonight and all seemed good till a half hour later - the screen color looked odd. I rechecked the color just running the calibration for RGB - don't know if one can do that and if it's accurate or not. I also ran a Luminance test too.

    When first calibrated it read -

    Lum - 120.6
    RGB - 6500

    When I did individual test it was -
    Lum = 119.2
    RGB - 6300

    I then ran the end test to see what everything was at and that came out as -
    Lum - 118.? Sorry I can't remember what that number was
    RGB - 6500

    I can't figure this out. Should I buy a new calibrator? Would that help? Is it my computer? Monitor? I'm at a total loss as to what to do.
  • basfltbasflt Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2014
    It is possible that the driver dont load your calibration in the LUT .

    Read >THIS< article , it explains how to enable your own profile ( with images ) so that the driver uses it at startup
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2014
    basflt wrote: »
    It is possible that the driver dont load your calibration in the LUT .

    Read >THIS< article , it explains how to enable your own profile ( with images ) so that the driver uses it at startup

    I will check this. Thank you.
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2014
    I made the changes in the article you linked to and have calibrated twice since then because it still keeps changing. Right now the change is RGB 6200 and Lum is 118.4. Any other suggestions?
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2014
    I was wondering if the Dell Monitor color profile should be listed in this box or removed.
  • basfltbasflt Major grins Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 23, 2014
    I am out of idea's

    Only thing left is the xrite software .
    Since i dont own an i1Display i cant assist on this .
    I looked at their site , and there are quite a bunch of things you should look at ; things that run "automatically"


    from their site ;
    Ambient Light Measurement – automatically determine the optimum display luminance for comparing prints to your display, based on a measurement of the lighting conditions where prints will be viewed

    X-Rite Ambient Light Smart Control – the intensity or amount of ambient light surrounding your workspace affects the way you perceive colors on your display. i1Display Pro can compensate for this effect and provide the option to automatically adjust your profile or simply notify you as ambient light conditions change

    Automatic Display Control (ADC) technology automates the adjustment of your display’s hardware (brightness/backlight, contrast, and color temperature) to speed up the profiling process and eliminate manual adjustments
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 23, 2014
    basflt wrote: »
    I am out of idea's

    Only thing left is the xrite software .
    Since i dont own an i1Display i cant assist on this .
    I looked at their site , and there are quite a bunch of things you should look at ; things that run "automatically"


    from their site ;

    I will look at their site and maybe send them off an email. Last time I had problems they mentioned the other i1display I should buy to replace the one I'm using now. I didn't see any need to do so, but maybe there is a need now. I just don't know.

    Thank you for all your help - I really do appreciate that you took time to try to figure this out for me. :D
  • NewsyNewsy Major grins Registered Users Posts: 605 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2014
    Dogdots wrote: »
    I was wondering if the Dell Monitor color profile should be listed in this box or removed.

    Sorry I'm so late to this - was on vacation. I also own a 2209WA and U2412 and use an i1 Display2 to calibrate (not for much longer though).

    I see that via the screenshot of your Color Management app that the U2412 is your Display 1. You can leave the default Dell ICC profile in the list. It makes no difference that it is there as the i1 Display2 software has correctly set the most recent ICC profile as the default.

    Now, what does the "Display 2" screen show for the 2209WA ? You view it by clicking on the Display field or on the little black arrow at far right in the field.

    You should also install this utility from Xrite - DisplayProfile. Download and extract it into its' own folder and then create a shortcut to place on your desktop or pin into your taskbar.

    X-rite Displayprofile
    http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=757&Action=support&SoftwareID=539


    It will look like this when open on screen...

    i-J4GN3Md.jpg


    When it loads on Monitor #1 (Display 1) it will show the active ICC profile. Drag it over to monitor #2 and you should see the ICC profile change. If it doesn't or it is not the 2209WA profile you expected, then there is a problem.

    You can also use DisplayProfile to temporarily load a profile on the fly by highlighting one of the other profiles listed - this does not reset the default system profile you assigned via the Color Management app. Careful as not all profiles listed are necessarily monitor profiles. I don't think a non-monitor profile will hurt your monitor but it can severely skew the colors and on my system sometimes there is a pause/freeze until I can correct my error. I have not had a profile blank my screen as yet and if this does happen, a reboot will load the default profile.

    My 2209WA takes about 30 to 45 minutes from when it is first powered up until the CCFL backlight stabilizes. Keep this in mind when calibrating - you need to allow enough time for it to stabilize before you calibrate. The U2412 with its' LED backlight, takes almost no time at all but I still let it settle for 30 minutes.

    In order for your two monitors to use separate and unique ICC profiles, your video card has to have a separate LUT (Look Up Table) for each port off the back of the card. The information from the ICC profile is loaded into this LUT at boot up or when you force it using DisplayProfile. If your video card does not have separate LUT's for each port, what you may see when using DisplayProfile is the same ICC profile being used for each monitor.

    Let us know what you find.


    PS... I have found the i1 Display2 software quite problematic for use with dual monitors. A previous Datacolor Spyder2 Pro was flawlessly capable of dealing with dual monitors. Inquiries to Xrite customer support only left me more frustrated. I've been using work arounds to calibrate my monitors but will soon be moving on to the latest model when I rebuild my desktop.

    .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2014
    Oh darn - I just sent my new monitor back today, but they're sending me out a new one. I also ordered the i1Display Pro and that should arrive on Friday. I did talk with xrite and they thought it might be something with a software update that windows might of installed in the past month or so - since I started having the problems. I don't know if that's the case tho.

    I now have my 2209WA hooked up and I'll calibrate it. I usually leave it for 30 minutes before calibrating, but I'll leave it awhile longer. I found this odd - when I did hook up the 2209WA it hooked up as being calibrated. Within 10 minutes it was lost and then the monitor started having a whole lot of funky lines moving all over the screen going horizontal and it was snowy/grainy. Now it's not doing that anymore.

    I tried to reach Dell tonight to see if I have separate LUT's for each port and they closed down for the night on me while I was waiting to talk with someone. Must not be my night.

    I did download the Displayprofile and will give that a try to monitor my computer after I calibrate it. Once I get my other monitor and have it set up and calibrated with the new calibrator I'll let you know how it all works and also how this one has functioned after I calibrate it tonight. I don't need two calibrated monitors. The perfect set up for me would be the U2412M calibrated to edit and running my other monitor for other things.

    Thank you for your help - this has been so frustrating. I'll keep you updated.
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2014
    I wanted to post an update - I calibrated my 2209 and when it came to the Luminance I set it at 121.4 since the next click down took me below 120. I then sat and watched it continuouly drop to 118.7. I then gave it two clicks upwards to 120.5 and waited to see what it would do. Again it dropped, but this time it went to 119.6. Didn't drop as fast. I again gave it one click upwards and it went to 121.8 and stopped at 120.6. I then ran the full calibration and the final reading was 6500 - 2.2 - 119.6. From there I did the DisplayProfile to see if it registered and this is what I saw --
  • NewsyNewsy Major grins Registered Users Posts: 605 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2014
    Put the monitor name in the profile. This way you will know what one the profile was created for and later you can delete old profiles as desired. Also, it makes it easier to spot if your video card is swapping profiles when you calibrate your second monitor.
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2014
    Newsy wrote: »
    Put the monitor name in the profile. This way you will know what one the profile was created for and later you can delete old profiles as desired. Also, it makes it easier to spot if your video card is swapping profiles when you calibrate your second monitor.

    I'm not excatly sure where you put the monitor name in the profile. Is this it? And if it is - do I click on anything else before closing it? If it's not -- what to I change the top line back to?
  • NewsyNewsy Major grins Registered Users Posts: 605 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2014
    You do this (include monitor name in profile name) when you create the profile at the conclusion of the calibration. I usually like to include some basic configuration info in my profile name so I can go back and check profiles against others with DisplayProfile.

    i.e. 2209WA 2012-01-06a 6500K 110 2-2G.ICC

    meaning for my 2209WA on January 6th, 2012 with my first "a" attempt, I calibrated for 6500K 110cd/m2 brightness and a gamma of 2.2


    In Vista and Win7 the ICC profiles are kept in this folder:

    C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color


    I'm not sure you can rename the ICC profile after the fact and have it show up in Display Profile and/or the Windows Color Mgt app under that name. I think I recall trying that some time ago and the name is read from internal data within the file - changing the name using Windows Explorer caused an error.


    The "Advanced" tab is of no use for most people - you shouldn't have to dabble there if you are the sole user of a PC. You would use it if you have multiple users and, as the PC administrator, are trying to force a color profile on other users.

    Make all your changes in selecting profiles in the "Device" tab.

    .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2014
    I calibrated my monitor again today since my i1display told me I needed to calibrate. I don't know why it did that since I had just done it and it doesn't inform me of needing to do it again for 7 days.

    I'm a little confused on making the changes in the Device Tab so I've included a capture of what I have after calibrating today.
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2014
    Hi Mary,

    It does appear you have the new calibration as the default. Let us know if it "sticks"...

    I would go through and delete/remove all the other unnecessary profiles :)

    Cheers, Don
  • NewsyNewsy Major grins Registered Users Posts: 605 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2014
    You have a reminder setting in your i1 calibration software - default is 7 days. You can change it to none. Poke around a bit in the settings and you will find it.

    Realistically, your 2209WA should not require a calibration every 7 days if it is in good working order. A CRT tube type monitor would. Most people calibrate their LCD monitors with CCFL back lights (like the 2209WA) once very 2 to 6 months - more often in the first year. The CCFL backlight does a lot of its' "ageing" in the 1st year - it will dim significantly in that period and then less so after that.

    LCD monitors with a LED backlight tend to require far fewer calibration updates - the forums I read have a lot of anedotal comments to no significant change after 6 months.

    .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2014
    I'm learning a lesson the hard way - sometimes a bad thing is better then a 'new bad thing'

    Don my calibration seems to be sticking which is surprising me.

    Newsy I never found my monitor really needed tweaking after 7 days, but did it anyway over the years. Last night I learned the 2209 is CCFL back lit and that is posing a problem now with the i1Display Pro I just received.

    I set up the i2Display Pro and ran it (after setting it to CCFL for the monitor lighting in the i1Display Pro settings) and the calibration would register near 6400 for color and the luminance was set below 120. Then my windows picture viewer showed all photos really dark. I never rely on the Windows Picture Viewer, but use it for a quick peek. I checked out some photos on my website to see how they were looking and 'yuck'. I also checked them in Photoshop/Zoombrowser and DPP. I really like how the i1Display Pro does all the work so you don't have to tweak buttons, but I feel I have no control over the settings and get readings that aren't within spec.

    This morning I changed the lighting setting for the monitor from something other then CCFL and the color setting was a tad over 6545. So I feel I'm getting closer. The 2209WA was always 'dead on' for me when calibrating.

    I'll keep playing with it, but from what I see I'm not happy with the i1Display Pro. The good thing though - the terrible settings it's calibrating to - they're holding.
  • NewsyNewsy Major grins Registered Users Posts: 605 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2014
    One thing you should check in the Xrite calibration software is for what ICC version your profiles are being created in. I believe the default is the latest v4.0 but not all software plays nice with this version. Many people set the version to v2.0 and this works for everything.

    Also, do not use the simple mode of the software. You want to use the advanced mode that requires you to set the RGB sliders on the monitors' settings menu.
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2014
    Newsy wrote: »
    One thing you should check in the Xrite calibration software is for what ICC version your profiles are being created in. I believe the default is the latest v4.0 but not all software plays nice with this version. Many people set the version to v2.0 and this works for everything.

    Also, do not use the simple mode of the software. You want to use the advanced mode that requires you to set the RGB sliders on the monitors' settings menu.

    I will check it out and give it another try -- thank you :D
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2014
    Just ran my calibration and this was the final reading.

    CIE Illuminant D65 -- CCT 6536K

    X:0313, Y0329 - X:0312 Y:0327

    120 Luminance 120

    Target 287 Contrast Ratio 318:1

    When I calibrated the target value for RGB was listed at 6502. Current was 6275 and it kept jumping in the 6200 range. All quality indicators were green checked as 'being good'. I ran it to see what the final reading would be and my final reading for the RGB was 6536.

    I did my calibration with my top room light on and a lamp on top of my CPU which is to my right shinning downwards onto my computer table. I did not run the settings for Flare Correct nor Ambient Light. I did set the version to v2.0. I saw mine was set at v4.0

    I do all my editing with my top light on and my side light too. Unless it's daytime and then I usually don't use any lights, but the window in my room is to my right side with no sun shinning in.

    Thought you'd like to know how it came out. One thing good - my Windows Picture Viewer isn't dark anymore :D Even when things are bad there is always something good :D
  • NewsyNewsy Major grins Registered Users Posts: 605 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2014
    That's a terrible contrast ratio for the 2209WA. You should be able to get your black point down to at least 0.35 cd/m2 and your contrast to in excess of 600:1.

    What are your monitor settings for:

    Brightness
    Contrast
    Red
    Green
    Blue

    I trust you are using the "Custom" preset mode to do your calibration?

    There are a number of people with far greater color management experience than me that recommend having the lights on to get your white luminance level set but suggest calibrating in the dark to conduct the RGB portion of the calibration. They do this to prevent light leakage around the edge of the puck into the sensor.

    .
  • DogdotsDogdots Major grins Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2014
    Newsy wrote: »
    That's a terrible contrast ratio for the 2209WA. You should be able to get your black point down to at least 0.35 cd/m2 and your contrast to in excess of 600:1.

    What are your monitor settings for:

    Brightness
    Contrast
    Red
    Green
    Blue

    I trust you are using the "Custom" preset mode to do your calibration?

    There are a number of people with far greater color management experience than me that recommend having the lights on to get your white luminance level set but suggest calibrating in the dark to conduct the RGB portion of the calibration. They do this to prevent light leakage around the edge of the puck into the sensor.

    .

    The contrast ratio I have to work with is either -

    Native
    ICC PCS Black point 287:1
    Custom which I can set the Target contrast ratio number with a slider. I don't know what to set that at. I'm doing all my own setting for White Point and Luminance. I'm thinking now I'm messing up on the contrast setting and I'm unsure if my setting of the CIE Illuminant D65 is correct under my Display Settings.

    I use to always calibrate in a dark room with the i1Display 2. I'll try it like you mentioned - in the dark for the RGB calibration.

    You ask what my monitor settings are - that is hard to know. I can see my Luminance registered at 120 and instead of measuring at 6500 it calibrated at 6536 - even after I adjusted all Red, Green and Blue to register at 6502 prior to running the calibration. I'm thinking I've got the wrong setting for the contrast. Tomorrow I'm going to call xrite and hopefully they'll tell me what I'm doing wrong. I can't believe it's the calibrator - it has to be me.
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