For those that shot film and now uses a full frame big tank

alaios

Hi all,
I have been for some time here and I have started photography with a compact 200 euros camera (you have seen some of my shots here posted). 10 months ago I decided to start shooting film again.

I do not want to go into the reasons I did that but for this post suffices to say that I damn enjoy it.

I am shooting with my x700 minolta info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_X-700

and I think i have a very good flow that never failed me.

I will explain briefly what I do.
I am using a 28-85 zoom lens and even though is not of the fastest ones gives me very good quality and has a DOF printed on the lens.

For focusing I just have learned after practice to calculate how much away my subject from me is and turn the focus ring accordingly. I might have a vary fast look on the dof that is printed on the lens and if needed turn left or right the aperture rings (based on the click I do, I increase or decrease by turning the shutter speed dial).
I make my frame and shot.

If this sounds complicated typically I can do even faster. After some time you learn the DOF for the different focal lengths and you can see the aperture value inside the viewfinder. Most of the time one small click in the aperture suffices (as film has larger latitude in overexposure and even if you are off in the shutter speed you will get results). Sometimes I just decide to use at hyperfocal distances so to not need to move the focus ring at all and focus purely on looking at the streets.

Believe it or not this is very relieving and most importantly allow me to focus on the composition and on looking the scenes. I have been shooting days without even looking on the light meter but by judging the light with the f/16 rule that works very well.

Simple but it works really really good.

Now lets move to the digital era which I do not understand well how one has to integrate in his workflow.
Focusing now has a mode "Auto mode and the focus area can somehow focus on something".

For example when I shoot landscape with my film camera . I focus from something like from 5 meters onwards with a f 16. Dof calculator says that is suffices. The auto focus mode I do not have a clue where it goes and locks.

Manual focus in digital cameras still bothers me. I can not see the distance scale in most of the lenses and the so called focus peaking does not help in cases you need to be exactly accurate. Many people in forums say shoot and see... I am not sure if my eyes are too bad but I can not review that good from a viewfinder and even more important I do not want to put my self in a not available for shooting state (like looking on a viewfinder what you shot)

Aperture rings are also not on the lens (and I do not see the reason for having from their removed).

So all of you that you have those big huge full frame cameras with all those many great buttons.. how this interface allows you to be fast.

What other thinks all these lovely buttons allow you to do into those big bodies?

Do they have some simple and straightforward mode that would allow me to spend most of my time in shooting?

Regards
Alex

Seefutlung

I shoot digital with Fuji cameras. Fuji cameras have the shutter speed dial on top the camera, just like your x700. The aperture for most Fujinon lenses is a ring on the lens, just like your x700. You can zone focus per the distance indicator inside the viewfinder, or you can zone focus many lenses using the distance scale on the lens, just like your x700. In fact, the same lens that is on your x700 can be used with a $20 adapter on my Fuji cameras. On my Fuji XT1 I have an ISO dial on top the camera and an Exposure Comp dial on top the camera. The EVF will show my exposure without having to reference the meter. For manual focus I can focus peak (my eyes can see focus peaking or electronic split image and best of all for critical MF I can easily magnify the center and dial in focus in an extremely precise fashion. On my X-Pro 1 and X100S I can focus optically (kinda similar to a rangefinder) or with an EVF. I can shoot at ISO 6400 with IQ ... mmmhh ... similar if not better than film @ 1600. I can shoot hundreds of images without having to replace a card. I don't need chemicals or a darkroom or a costly lab in order to see my images. And the Fujis are of similar size, if not smaller than your x700.

I use AF, the AF is fast enough for sports and action photography. I AF for Street photography too.

Gary

alaios

yes fuji looks to be the one of the cameras with very good interface. I still though I want to understand how the full frame of nikon and cannon (does fuji has a pro full frame series?) monsters work? I guess there should be somehow similar, with my film approach, since many of their customers were using film.

Thanks for your answer
Alex

perroneford

alaios wrote: »

I still though I want to understand how the full frame of nikon and cannon (does fuji has a pro full frame series?) monsters work? I guess there should be somehow similar, with my film approach, since many of their customers were using film.

Thanks for your answer
Alex

They work just like what you have now. All the same controls, all the same aperture information, DOF information, etc. You can pretend they are film cameras and shoot them EXACTLY the same as a film camera if you want, including full manual control.

I started on a fully manual film camera back in the 1970s, moved to autofocus film camera in the 90s, and now use digital autofocus camera. I still shoot fully manual on occasion. Like when I use one of my older lenses.

Seefutlung

alaios wrote: »

yes fuji looks to be the one of the cameras with very good interface. I still though I want to understand how the full frame of nikon and cannon (does fuji has a pro full frame series?) monsters work? I guess there should be somehow similar, with my film approach, since many of their customers were using film.

Thanks for your answer
Alex

No, Fuji does not make a FF, only APS-C for their ILC's. I have FF cameras. There isn't any magic in a FF sensor. For most of what I shoot and how I shoot, the FF doesn't not make a significant difference or significantly enhance/improves the image over my APS-C sensors. I prefer the IQ of the Fuji X-Trans sensor over the IQ of my 1D tanks. That is why my FF and MFT cameras are gathering dust.

Gary

PS- I started shooting film back in the early 1960's. I used to shoot news. Everyday for some 15 years I shot, developed and printed nearly every working day. I understand film and SLR/manual cameras. The dSLR tanks can be set up for full manual control. With the exception of AF, 90% of everything I shoot ... I shoot with manual aperture, shutter speed and ISO.
G

alaios

But where is the aperture ring or the focus range on the lenses ring? I might be completely wrong but it might be that all these elements are somehow controlled from buttons now or not?

ziggy53

alaios wrote: »

But where is the aperture ring or the focus range on the lenses ring? I might be completely wrong but it might be that all these elements are somehow controlled from buttons now or not?

Aperture rings are disappearing from lens bodies because it is faster and mechanically more efficient and more accurate to use electronic actuators in each lens. The aperture setting is indeed controlled by the camera body, as is the shutter speed and ISO. (Aperture, shutter and ISO camera control predates the digital era, however.)

The DOF range indication on some lenses was a very gross approximation (at best) and has been replaced by the instant feedback produced by reviewing the image (chimping) in the camera's LCD display, including 100 percent magnification (pixel for pixel) image review, something only dreamed about in a film era.

To properly estimate DOF before the shot one may also use personalized and printed DOF tables and even computer/tablet/smartphone applications which calculate the DOF in real time. (I keep a Palm Tungsten E2 wih me for just that purpose, as well as other handy apps.) https://www.google.com/#q=dof%20calculator

Seefutlung

ziggy53 wrote: »

Aperture rings are disappearing from lens bodies because it is faster and mechanically more efficient and more accurate to use electronic actuators in each lens. The aperture setting is indeed controlled by the camera body, as is the shutter speed and ISO. (Aperture, shutter and ISO camera control predates the digital era, however.)

The DOF range indication on some lenses was a very gross approximation (at best) and has been replaced by the instant feedback produced by reviewing the image (chimping) in the camera's LCD display, including 100 percent magnification (pixel for pixel) image review, something only dreamed about in a film era.

To properly estimate DOF before the shot one may also use personalized and printed DOF tables and even computer/tablet/smartphone applications which calculate the DOF in real time. (I keep a Palm Tungsten E2 wih me for just that purpose, as well as other handy apps.) https://www.google.com/#q=dof%20calculator

Fuji comes with command dials on the body to fine tune exposures between the full stops.

angevin1

alaios wrote: »

Do they have some simple and straightforward mode that would allow me to spend most of my time in shooting?

Regards
Alex

Yes. Manual mode. And Auto Mode too.

These newish "big huge full frame cameras" can be and are used by a great many people almost exactly as you suggest you're doing with your Minolta.

For instance. On my Canon 5DMkII I often use a 40mm-Voightlander lens. It is manual with aperture ring. I set my focal distance on the lens instead of looking thru the viewfinder and aperture as well and shoot. What I use in that instance is simple.
I set up to know that my DOF will allow subject close focus @11 ft. and beyond in focus too, I then just maintain my distance and shoot away.
So, if you can estimate light, and can estimate distance, and understand aperture and shoot manually, these new cameras will allow you to do all those things easily. There are a plethora of old-er lenses available to fit either directly or with an adapter. Pretty much all with aperture rings and MF.
Whats so hard about that?

As far as using digital to get precise focus. You have two choices. One of which is Live view. Looking at the LCD on the back of the camera trumps about anything I can think of with a manual or AF lens. The other choice is to use the cameras AF system, set it with a focus "point" that works for you. One can clearly see the focus point chosen in the viewfinder. These camera bodies also have a neat as heck feature that allows adjustment to the lens/camera interface for lenses that back or forward focus. That setting can then be saved and you're good to shoot reliably.

Sports photos? I wouldn't even want to try to keep up with a moving sporting event with a MF lens/camera.

And then of course there are other focusing screens that can be changed into your camera to aid folks that prefer the old method of using manual focus thru the lens with better accuracy than some of the screens that are sold in the bodies.

In short, I think today's Digital Cameras, specifically the DSLR has advantages well over the older Cameras if for no other reason than they give the user choices.

gvf

angevin1 wrote: »

Yes. Manual mode. And Auto Mode too.

These newish "big huge full frame cameras" can be and are used by a great many people almost exactly as you suggest you're doing with your Minolta.

For instance. On my Canon 5DMkII I often use a 40mm-Voightlander lens. It is manual with aperture ring. I set my focal distance on the lens instead of looking thru the viewfinder and aperture as well and shoot. What I use in that instance is simple.
I set up to know that my DOF will allow subject close focus @11 ft. and beyond in focus too, I then just maintain my distance and shoot away.
So, if you can estimate light, and can estimate distance, and understand aperture and shoot manually, these new cameras will allow you to do all those things easily. There are a plethora of old-er lenses available to fit either directly or with an adapter. Pretty much all with aperture rings and MF.
Whats so hard about that?

As far as using digital to get precise focus. You have two choices. One of which is Live view. Looking at the LCD on the back of the camera trumps about anything I can think of with a manual or AF lens. The other choice is to use the cameras AF system, set it with a focus "point" that works for you. One can clearly see the focus point chosen in the viewfinder. These camera bodies also have a neat as heck feature that allows adjustment to the lens/camera interface for lenses that back or forward focus. That setting can then be saved and you're good to shoot reliably.

Sports photos? I wouldn't even want to try to keep up with a moving sporting event with a MF lens/camera.

And then of course there are other focusing screens that can be changed into your camera to aid folks that prefer the old method of using manual focus thru the lens with better accuracy than some of the screens that are sold in the bodies.

In short, I think today's Digital Cameras, specifically the DSLR has advantages well over the older Cameras if for no other reason than they give the user choices.

Especially for landscapes on a lot of film camera you have the Hyperfocal ring. Set it correctly, focus where the dial tells you and Bingo, everything is in focus, say from 20" out to Infinity. Don't think that ring is present on digitals. Too bad. You can still find hyperfocus with an equation but nothing easier than a dial.

Best camera to learn photography on is a simple one, old film folder e.g. Nothing is automatic, so you learn light and eye and a few simple settings to get the look you want, most of these (old folders) have no light meter but do have great lenses, anyway, shutter speed, aperture about all you need - and a hyper focal ring helpful. Use "Sweet Sixteen" Rule for light, or even simpler, break day shooting into about 4 types, brilliant sun, sun, sun & clouds, LOTSA BIG BLACK clouds, about the same for early evening, dusk etc. Or choose a slightly slower speed/more open aperture + a tripod (or VERY steady hands) for dusk.
NO COFFEE!

Modern film has wide exposure latitude and is very forgiving anyway.