The benefits of wide gamut working spaces on printed output

arodney

This free, three part, 32 minute video covers why a wide gamut RGB working space like ProPhoto RGB can produce superior quality output to print.

Part 1 discusses how the supplied Gamut Test File was created and shows two prints output to an Epson 3880 using ProPhoto RGB and sRGB, how the deficiencies of sRGB gamut affects final output quality. Part 1 discusses what to look for on your own prints in terms of better color output. It also covers Photoshop’s Assign Profile command and how wide gamut spaces mishandled produce dull or over saturated colors due to user error.

Part 2 goes into detail about how to print two versions of the properly converted Gamut Test File file in Photoshop using Photoshop’s Print command to correctly setup the test files for output. It covers the Convert to Profile command for preparing test files for output to a lab.

Part 3 goes into color theory and illustrates why a wide gamut space produces not only move vibrant and saturated color but detail and color separation compared to a small gamut working space like sRGB.

High Resolution Video: http://digitaldog.net/files/WideGamutPrintVideo.mov
Low Resolution (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLlr7wpAZKs&feature=youtu.be

Sam

Very nice tutorial. Thanks!!

I do have one question: I am under the impression that the Adobe CMM color conversion engine is better than the Adobe ACE color conversion engine.

What are your thoughts on this?

Sam

arodney

Sam wrote: »

Very nice tutorial. Thanks!!
I do have one question: I am under the impression that the Adobe CMM color conversion engine is better than the Adobe ACE color conversion engine.

They are one in the same.

kdog

Thanks, Andrew. That was a fun and enlightening exercise.

What I found interesting is that I could instantly see a marked change on my monitor when toggling between ProPhoto and sRGB. I wouldn't have expected to see such a difference without a wide gamut monitor which I don't have. I have a good but older Dell monitor. So is there really that much advantage to having a wide gamut monitor?

arodney

kdog wrote: »

So is there really that much advantage to having a wide gamut monitor?

Very much so, assuming you're working with data larger in gamut than sRGB! Just because you saw a difference in ProPhoto RGB vs. sRGB doesn't mean you're seeing anything outside the display (sRGB-like) gamut, that's not possible.

kdog

arodney wrote: »

Very much so, assuming you're working with data larger than sRGB! Just because you saw a difference in ProPHoto RGB vs. sRGB doesn't mean you're seeing anything outside the display (sRGB-like) gamut, that's not possible.

Thanks, Andrew. I've been hoping for a good excuse not to spend the big bucks on a wide-gamut monitor, but seem to be losing the battle. Sigh.

pathfinder

Have you decided on a new monitor yet, Joel?

I am still looking around like you, uncertain if I really want to make the jump to a wide gamut monitor, or just a newer 4K or UHD monitor.

kdog

pathfinder wrote: »

I am still looking around like you, uncertain if I really want to make the jump to a wide gamut monitor, or just a newer 4K or UHD monitor.

How about a 4K wide-gamut monitor?

David_S85

kdog wrote: »

How about a 4K wide-gamut monitor?

$4,600? :yikes

kdog

Actually, this may well be my next monitor. http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Digital-31MU97-B-31-0-Inch/dp/B00OKSEVTY

31", true 4K resolution, 99.5% of aRGB. All for $1400.

It's new, and I may wait for the reviews to come out, but this is looking very promising.

pathfinder

I am with you here, Joel.

I thought most of the LG UHDs were just sRGB, but I do see that this one is most of AdobeRGB color gamut, and that and the size may be the deal clincher for me as well.

That monitor is included in those listed by Apple at working with 4K too, if you are running Yosemite - see here - http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT6008

pathfinder

I will fess up now, Joel, I broke down over the week end, and did buy that LG 31 UM97 monitor. I am currently running it via an HDMI cable and despite folks who describe it not being full screen with an HDMI cable, mine is completely full scree. I am running Yosemite 10.10.1

What a nice upgrade from my 8 year old 24 inch Cinema Display.

David_S85

Jim, first, congrats on the new display. Glad that you made the jump finally. Are you getting the full 4096 res. out of the new monitor? And if so, at what refresh rate?

I was skeptical that a new Macbook Pro Retina might not drive that same monitor with full native res., but there are comments in the Amazon link above that with a higher bandwidth DVI cable (not the one included), that 50-60 at 4096 was indeed possible.

EDIT: Oh that Google! I clicked through the Amazon link for the 31" twice in an hour and now most all ads in forums and other sites I frequently visit now show the LG as an in-line picture advertisement. Took them like two seconds to replace the B&H ads.

pathfinder

I don't know the answer to either of those questions, David. I do know I have the entire screen filled, there are no dark bars top and bottom like some describe.

I am using an HDMI cable from my MacPro. The video driver is in Yosemite which does recognize the 31MU97 monitor, but does not provide a numerical description of the parameters or I don't know how to get them.

I am using a scaled display for text since the standard display of text is so small as to be almost unreadable, less than 1mm in height.

The monitor comes with a 4K cable which is Thunderbolt on one end, and a modified type plug on the other end that is for 4K apparently but for now I am using the HDMI cable. Sorry I don't have more answers.

When I click on System Information it does describe my monitor as a 31MU97 at 4096 by 2160, so I think that is what I am seeing - according to the page on the Apple forum the MacPro needs Yosemite to run full 4K with this monitor, which seems to be what I am seeing.

David_S85

Thanks, Jim. I was at the Apple store today and they were so busy I couldn't get any answers from them, and actually, I wouldn't expect them to know about other displays. Every salesman I've ever talked to seems unwilling to ever find answers to stuff like this.

Are you using the Apple System Preferences screen scaling for enlarging text and icons? Does that change anything in applications such as Lightroom or PS also. That is one worry of mine that I wouldn't be able to easily discern tools in editing apps.

I've heard that the Thunderbolt to DVI is one solution, but I can't wrap my head around how they'd even talk to each other at either end since one is a microchip controller at the Thunderbolt end and "dumb" at the other DVI end. High time display mfgr's get on board with the Thunderbolt 2 parade, even though it might add to the price. That would allow the computer to find out what's happening at the monitor. More precise calibration and control from the computer would be one advantage of that, I'd think. My Apple Pro (older 2010 model) can't talk to my Viewsonic 1920 x 1200 display at all.

One way to figure out the actual display resolution would be to create a graphic that is several pixels shy of expected native screen res. and then display it from an application at 1:1 full screen size and then see how it shows up.

pathfinder

I have the Thunderbolt to DVI adapter - it comes with the MacPro or is available from the Apple store fairly inexpensively ( inexpensive for Apple anyway ) but the HDMI cable was just simple and easier for me and gave me full screen immediately.

I am using the Apple System preferences to scale the text, and i am using the middle of 5 boxes - it has no effect on the size of the tools in PS or LR. They are still easy to see and use with my Apple mouse. I have always used a Logitech wireless mouse with my Apples, but with the MacPro the the would stutter and you could see the buffer fill up when trying to paint with a brush in PS, so I switched to the Apple wired mouse and fixed that issue.

I do like this new monitor, it has nice black point, and is quite contrasty but without the reflections I saw on the Apple Thunderbolt monitor.


Yes I could futz around with a graphic of a fixed size to determine the pixel pitch of the screen, but since the Apple System Report says it is a 31MU97 with 4096 x 2160, I am pretty sure that is correct. I also know that one needs Yosemite to access this display size. My MacPro shipped with Mavericks of course, but the update form the Apple App store was smooth and uneventful.

Interestingly, there are Thunderbolt to Firewire 400, and Firewire 800 adapters that are just small non-powered plugs - I have some of them. I also have a Thunderbolt to eSata adapter from OWC that I used to port my image files over from my eSata Raid array to my Pegasus Thunderbolt array. It worked quite smoothly also. SO there are a number of ways to get from Thunderbolt to other venues. But for now, the included HDMI cable seems to be working for me.

I also gained three more USB 3 ports on the back of the monitor - that is where i plug my Apple mouse now.


This link makes more sense to me now, especially concerning the 31UM97 - http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202856

kdog

pathfinder wrote: »

I will fess up now, Joel, I broke down over the week end, and did buy that LG 31 UM97 monitor. I am currently running it via an HDMI cable and despite folks who describe it not being full screen with an HDMI cable, mine is completely full scree. I am running Yosemite 10.10.1

What a nice upgrade from my 8 year old 24 inch Cinema Display.

Congrats, Jim!! Now that it has the Pathfinder seal of approval, I guess I should get mine as well. I'll have to upgrade my graphics card though, and still have to figure out which one to get.

David_S85

I'm still probably going to wait until the Broadwell chipset is shipping with MBPro's (early 2015) and will then retire both my MacPro and Viewsonic 23". Every 5-6 years I get that itch. Wanting to see the 31" LG in person. Following all this very closely. :oogle

EDIT: Just found this thread:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1811376

The short story: Just about everyone in the 13+ pages thus far just can't get the thing working (faithfully) at the full 4096 @ 60Hz, including the software author of SwitchrezX via Thunderbolt/DVI. More disappointing is max refresh is limited to just 24Hz using HDMI cables, even with the latest nMP. Rebooting forces the LG back to 3860 with an inch of black bars at either end (TB/DVI). Must fiddle with it each time to regain 4096 @ 60. This, even with the very latest 10.x.x Dec. 2nd. Apple is working on full support, but it ain't there yet native in OSX 10. I'm not going to mess with cold resets every time I turn the machine on and luckily I'm in no hurry. I'm sure they'll fix in some future update.

With Windows, it works perfectly. Meh.

kdog

pathfinder wrote: »

I will fess up now, Joel, I broke down over the week end, and did buy that LG 31 UM97 monitor.

I picked up the LG 31UM97 as well to replace my old Dell 24" on my PC. I also had to upgrade my graphics card to drive this beast. I actually bought a used GEFORCE GTX 780 at a great price as the newer 980's aren't supported by Adobe Premier yet. I'm using the DisplayPort interface.

I calibrated the monitor using the included program, True Color Pro and it worked perfectly with my i1 Display Pro which thankfully was on their list of supported calibration devices. Very simple to use.

Man, this monitor is *sharp*! :wow It sounds funny to say, but I never realized how sharp my pictures were. Contrast and colors are just gorgeous. Very happy so far.

David_S85

Joel, you are using Windows, I assume?

kdog

David_S85 wrote: »

Joel, you are using Windows, I assume?

David, yes, Windows 7.

pathfinder

Good to hear there are now at least two of us here at dgrin with that monitor, Joel.

I have True Color Pro downloaded but not installed just yet. I do find I have to reset the monitor after a cold reboot, but since I rarely reboot, that does not seem to be much of an issue for me at this time.

I agree, I am getting spoiled - monitors that I thought were ok now don't look so hot. Ah well.

kdog

Just an FYI, Jim. I had a recurring problem with my LG 31MU97 which prompted me to bring it back to the store (Fry's) and trade it in on another one. The problem was that every couple of hours, the monitor would make a loud "pop" noise and the screen would flicker and/or black out completely for a second. Pretty sure it had a flaky power supply. Keeping my fingers crossed on the new one. You might want to keep an eye on yours too.

pathfinder

Mine has not had that difficulty. Mine seems to work quite uneventfully, without whistles or pops.

I cannot get True Color Pro to run on my Mac Pro, so I have not been able to get the monitor to calibrate with it. That said, it does match my other calibrated monitor very closely as it came, so I am kind of waiting to see what LG does about this.

David_S85

kdog wrote: »

Just an FYI, Jim. I had a recurring problem with my LG 31MU97 which prompted me to bring it back to the store (Fry's) and trade it in on another one. The problem was that every couple of hours, the monitor would make a loud "pop" noise and the screen would flicker and/or black out completely for a second. Pretty sure it had a flaky power supply. Keeping my fingers crossed on the new one. You might want to keep an eye on yours too.

That same problem has seemed to happen to quite a few people on other forums. Yours had a "pop" while everybody else just experienced the second or two of black. That black was theorized to be the cable not being able to fully transmit to the monitor what the graphics system was trying to push towards it.

kdog

David_S85 wrote: »

That same problem has seemed to happen to quite a few people on other forums. Yours had a "pop" while everybody else just experienced the second or two of black. That black was theorized to be the cable not being able to fully transmit to the monitor what the graphics system was trying to push towards it.

Interesting, I got that as well sometimes.

pathfinder

Mine seems to work flawlessly - but I cannot get TrueColor to work in Yosemite OS 10.10.1 It crashes upon opening and goes no further than crashing.

David_S85

Another LG monitor article
http://9to5toys.com/2014/12/31/lg-curved-ultrawide-4k-displays/