Dealing with other "shooters"... quick question

r3t1awr3yd · October 21, 2014

So I shot a wedding last weekend where one of the groomsman was also a photographer. Unfortunately, he brought his camera along and was also snapping behind me as I was doing couples photos. Normally, I don't care about other people shooting behind me but when things like this happen:

I get irked. Bride? She knows where to look. Groom? Distracted by another person he knows is a photographer. I literally don't have a photo where they're both looking at me and I took three for good measure.

What would you do in this situation?

Like I said, normally I'm not bothered by other people shooting but other people with phones/small cameras usually wait till I'm done working or in the middle of a lull before snapping a shot but this time...

divamum · October 21, 2014

Be sure to tell them where to look and keep reminding them and TALKING to them the whole time. If you see them look away, drop camera from eye and remind them. Again. And again. Ask other photographer to wait until you're done with the setup, at which point they can snap away to their heart's content until you move on to the next batch.

troopers · October 21, 2014

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

What would you do in this situation?

It's unavoidable...and I don't spend energy fighting it. I inform B/G that I do not 'compete' with others with cameras. I allow others to take their photos first and then I do my thing....then usually after a while, the B/G eventually realizes that the others are a problem and asks them to stop.

r3t1awr3yd · October 21, 2014

troopers wrote: »

It's unavoidable...and I don't spend energy fighting it. I inform B/G that I do not 'compete' with others with cameras. I allow others to take their photos first and then I do my thing....then usually after a while, the B/G eventually realizes that the others are a problem and asks them to stop.

divamum wrote: »

Be sure to tell them where to look and keep reminding them and TALKING to them the whole time. If you see them look away, drop camera from eye and remind them. Again. And again. Ask other photographer to wait until you're done with the setup, at which point they can snap away to their heart's content until you move on to the next batch.

So I made it really obvious at one point. Jokingly I was like wait, let her take her iphone pic (pointed to left, sister of bride), next up is his pic (pointed to groomsdude with D300s+85 f/1.8), and then I was like, "Aright, look here..."

Ugh. It was frustrating. And now I'm getting giant shout outs on facebook and all I can think is "OMG if you had just looked, it would be 100000 times better!"

On the plus side, the bride and groom are blown away at the moment

kdog · October 21, 2014

That happened at my Bat Mitzvah on Saturday. A relative was snapping cell phone shots next to me and my group was looking their way. I faced the relative and told him to go ahead and finish taking their shots and then it will be my turn, because I need everyone looking at me. He looked like he was going to punch me out. Guess what? Some of them were still watching him and I don't have a single decent shot out of that group. I'm wondering now if he still had his cell phone out.

I personally find it extremely difficult in a group situation to ascertain whether everyone is looking at me when I take my shots. It takes just a millisecond for someone to blink or look away and you can't catch that. It's also too time consuming to zoom into every shot and review every face. Your group will lose focus and your shot will be over. Even if you asked for more shots, you won't get happy faces at that point. So all you can really do is take several shots and hope one is good. In my case, I lost on it. All I can do is deliver the best one.

I do have in my contract that it's the customer's responsibility to prevent interference from other photographers, so I'm covered for bad photos like this. But I feel they reflect poorly on me and it's extremely frustrating. It's a real dilemma.

ian408 · October 21, 2014

"Hey everyone! The couple are paying me to get some great shots today. If you'll let me get setup and refrain from taking pictures until I've got what I need, we can get through this and back to the party quickly." You could add "and if there's some time, I'd be happy to answer your questions". Close with "and if we work together, each of us will get what we need/want".

The old "more flies with honey" theory. Worked for me.

Qarik · October 21, 2014

"hey guys..let me get my shot 1st!" with a smile and eye contact. works all the time

Matthew Saville · October 21, 2014

Often times, playing along with other shooters and letting them get their shots first, or asking to get YOUR shot first, ...simply won't cut it. Sometimes, I have to flat-out stop shooting, turn and look at this or that person(s), and ask them to not only stop shooting, but to actually leave the area. Because even if the uncle bobs aren't shooting, someone's still going to look at them sometimes.

The key is to get the bride and groom on board with this level of law-laying-down ahead of time. Ask for their permission, and even their support, when getting family formals, bridal party group shots, and couples' portraits.

When you do this, the split second you lower your camera and turn towards uncle bob, nine times out of ten the bride and groom are already ready to shout their support of your ultimatum if uncle bob gives you even the slightest dirty look.

BTW, I never have any trouble checking faces for blinking or people who look away, because my D800e has face-detect scrolling built into image playback. I can check 5-10 faces at 100% zoom in literally 0.8 seconds. :-P

=Matt=

Blurmore · November 3, 2014

When I'm dealing with a lot of people with cameras, and I'm shooting family groups, I will set the group up, and OFFER the people with cameras/phones first dibs. Then after they've taken their photos, I explain that I really need the group looking at me when I'm photographing. When I'm working with the bride and groom alone, I don't usually have tag alongs, but if I do, I actively control eye direction as I usually have a second, and I don't want them poaching it either. As a sub-contractor I don't know what is in the contract most of the time and don't care, I wouldn't consider threatening to walk off a job because my ego won't fit in the car.

Swartzy · November 3, 2014

I have specific clauses in my contract about this sort of thing and at our first meeting with the B&G, this is discussed.

Jschmoo · January 26, 2015

First off, we always cover this (unauthorized shooters)with B&G at the contract signing...
I love this story...We get to the wedding, Father of groom has like $20,000.00 worth of equipment. No problem... we just do our jobs and shoot with him in the background. During the ceremony Father decides to jump in front of my wife as bridesmaid #1 comes down the aisle. (My wife shoots everything up front during the ceremony, as I am 6' 5" 320lbs. and don't blend well in front.) Anyway this happens for first two bridesmaids... upon the decent of bridesmaid #3 my wife sternly tells Father that "Your son is paying ME to photograph this wedding and you have blocked me twice, now take a seat!!! Mother of the groom calmly tells Father, I told you to stay out of the way... We were all best of friends for the rest of the night. So, be nice if possible but always be in charge! After all, you are getting payed to do this job. Even if it doesn't work out well... you tried.

jhefti · February 7, 2015

I rarely shoot weddings, but the last one I shot the couple specifically requested (demanded) that people not take photos during the ceremony. I don't think they had me in mind, but just wanted people to pay attention and be in the moment. Since the couple didn't want any posed shots, just candids, I didn't have to worry about this part of the wedding.

I'm not sure it is realistic to ask the couple to prohibit iPhone shooting by guests during the ceremony, but it sure made my job easier and also made for a better ceremony.

jhefti · February 7, 2015

Jschmoo wrote: »

First off, we always cover this (unauthorized shooters)with B&G at the contract signing...
I love this story...We get to the wedding, Father of groom has like $20,000.00 worth of equipment. No problem... we just do our jobs and shoot with him in the background. During the ceremony Father decides to jump in front of my wife as bridesmaid #1 comes down the aisle. (My wife shoots everything up front during the ceremony, as I am 6' 5" 320lbs. and don't blend well in front.) Anyway this happens for first two bridesmaids... upon the decent of bridesmaid #3 my wife sternly tells Father that "Your son is paying ME to photograph this wedding and you have blocked me twice, now take a seat!!! Mother of the groom calmly tells Father, I told you to stay out of the way... We were all best of friends for the rest of the night. So, be nice if possible but always be in charge! After all, you are getting payed to do this job. Even if it doesn't work out well... you tried.

Love those guys (and it's usually guys) with expensive equipment but no idea how to take a decent shot. I see them all the time at youth sports events.

How incredibly frustrating for your wife!

zoomer · February 16, 2015

Take control, keep their attention and don't click till they are both looking at you........there will always be distractions.

Glort · February 17, 2015

zoomer wrote: »

Take control, keep their attention and don't click till they are both looking at you........there will always be distractions.

THIS ^^^^^

What would I do?
I'd take control of the situation like a professional and rectify the problem.

I cover this with the B&G when they book and point out the clause in my contract that says I'm the only shooter allowed to take pics at the event and anyone else taking them will constitute breach of contract.
I tell them that I will allow other shooters as long as they don't interfere with what I do but if that happens, I will invoke this clause and they can either organise for the problem to be eliminated or I'll go home.
Never had a problem with that yet and I have had many people really happy about it because it gives them a reason to tell uncle Bob he can't annoy the guts out of them all day with his happy snapping.

I used to tell people to take their pics and then I'd take mine and that fixed the problem 99% of the time. In these days of increasing self entitlement, you come across people more and more often that think their garbage phone pics are more important than the ones the B&G are paying you thousands to produce. I'll often joke and tell the ones that are slow on the uptake that The B&G paid me a lot of money so they ( the guest) can enjoy themselves and not have to do any work which is again what I'm there for. Said with a smile and in a Jovial tone, that used to get the hint across pretty well but either I'm slipping or people are just putting too much self importance into their crappy phone snaps these days because fewer people seem to take heed.

The other side of the coin is that some idiots in the bridal party can't follow the simple instruction to look at you and no one else. I have jokingly yelled at people to look at me after asking and singling them out 3 times and still you see the wandering eyes. It's amazing. It's easier to get 3 yo kids to look at you and no where else than some adults. I have also made a joke and covered my arse with this and told people in the bridal party that if they don't look at me and ruin the pics, it's them that are going to hear people paying out on them for the rest of their days not me.

If some persistent crappy snapper refuses to piss off when asked politely, I have no problem clearly announcing so all around can hear it that I am a Solo act and when they have finished and left the area, I'll start doing my work again. I'll put the camera on the ground and stand there patiently to wait.

That takes about .7 of a second for someone to get that person out of there for me and usually brings apologies from the B&G who never wanted them there anyway. When people won't take the subtle hint, I turn it round and make them the arse for interrupting and happily take a back seat.
The attitude of " I'll recommence what I'm doing as soon as you are finished and wait here patiently till you are done" keeps me in the good books and puts them in the doghouse every time.

Over all though the thing is to Fix the problem by whatever means necessary.
I'd rather someone say I was rude to them by not letting them take pictures than deliver pictures where everyone is thinking I did a crap job because the people are looking in different directions and why didn't I tell them all to look at the camera?
Reasonable people will know why you were seen as rude if some ego tripper whinges and 9 times out of 10, also know that the person doing the complaining is a pain in the backside and will put little stock in their complaint anyway.

If your pictures aren't right, you never get to explain why nor should ever put up with any unnecessary interference that impedes the quality of your work.

Be a professional not just a button pusher and take control and fix the problem.

Ferguson · February 25, 2015

I get this all the time in sports group shots that are ad-hoc (e.g. after an award). And there's no option to control the other photographers, they are a combination of other media, parents, staff, etc.

I've found that one hand can usually help. When you go to shoot, hold it up and say loudly "here", take 5 shots or so fast.

Most of the others are saying nothing, just shooting, so the group has no focus. You have to become that focus for their attention, for only a few seconds. And if you are taking several they very quickly get trained what you are doing. Especially if they know you are "the" photographer who is important.

And yes... better if you can come to an amicable arrangement with the other photographer. But if you are assertive both visually and audibly you can usually get their attention back on you briefly. That's likely easier than training them to always look at you.

PhotographyByMichael · March 9, 2015

I learned this trick from a good friend of mine. The best way to handle this is to go to the bride and groom and ask them to nicely mention to the other photographer to stop shooting because its distracting. My personal policy is that when we are shooting family photos and candids anyone is welcome to shoot (as long as I get my family shot first). Once the formal shoot of the bride and groom starts then nobody else is allowed to shoot. These are my poses and my backgrounds so its not really fair for others to take the same photos and claim they are theirs. But the more important thing is the really the subject of the original post. Its distracting and takes away from the final result. Ask the bride and groom to nicely intervene.

www.weddingphotographersanfranciscocityhall.com
Photography by Michael

zoomer · March 11, 2015

It isn't the bride and grooms problem...it is the photographers. They paid the photographer to manage....the photography....so they can just have fun and enjoy their day.
Never Take Your Problem to the bride and groom.
If there is an extreme issue that you have tried but cannot resolve....go to the wedding planner if there is one....address problems with other vendors directly....if it is a family issue that you just can't fix, Parents of the bride or groom.

jonh68 · March 11, 2015

I agree. We as a photographers should be the first one to address the problem. Bride and groom should not be involved unless it gets extreme.

The bride can request a no camera event ahead of time. Other than that announce you need to have the bride and grooms full attention and any friends and family that want their own portrait session with the bride and groom can have them after the formal pics are taken. Usually by then the B&G do not want to take any more pics.

zoomer wrote: »

It isn't the bride and grooms problem...it is the photographers. They paid the photographer to manage....the photography....so they can just have fun and enjoy their day.
Never Take Your Problem to the bride and groom.
If there is an extreme issue that you have tried but cannot resolve....go to the wedding planner if there is one....address problems with other vendors directly....if it is a family issue that you just can't fix, Parents of the bride or groom.

Matthew Saville · March 12, 2015

PhotographyByMichael wrote: »

I learned this trick from a good friend of mine. The best way to handle this is to go to the bride and groom and ask them to nicely mention to the other photographer to stop shooting because its distracting. My personal policy is that when we are shooting family photos and candids anyone is welcome to shoot (as long as I get my family shot first). Once the formal shoot of the bride and groom starts then nobody else is allowed to shoot. These are my poses and my backgrounds so its not really fair for others to take the same photos and claim they are theirs. But the more important thing is the really the subject of the original post. Its distracting and takes away from the final result. Ask the bride and groom to nicely intervene....

Indeed, like a couple others have mentioned, I don't think this is the best advice. My number one priority is the bride & groom's enjoyment.

Getting the couple to "have my back" so to speak, is something I discuss before the wedding, even during the initial consultation. Right then and there, I get their permission to "control the pack"... Then, on the wedding day, I take care of business.

I think (and of course this is only one approach, and one person's experience) that if you need to involve the bride and groom in crowd control more than once or twice in your entire career, you may have the wrong outlook to wedding photography in general. Again, that's just my two cents.

Just as a qualifier, I'll share a story from one of my most recent weddings. A photographer came into a wedding reception that I was photographing, acting like a guest. I immediately felt a red flag, though, because they weren't actually interacting with any of the guests, and they looked almost just like another professional.

After watching them for 5-10 minutes, I was certain they were a wedding crasher, taking their own photos for their own portfolio, or whatever other creepy purposes I don't even want to imagine. (it was a high-end wedding, so I suspect they were just fishing for detail images and business opportunities)

First, I approached the photographer directly, and asked them what they were doing. When I couldn't get a straight answer, I demanded that they take me to someone who could vouch for them immediately, OTHER than the bride and groom. When they tried to avoid this ultimatum as well, I went straight to the venue staff / security, pointed out the wedding crasher, and asked them to take care of the situation.

The last thing I wanted was to involve the bride & groom. Obviously this is a very different situation from simply getting uncle bob to leave us alone, because the reaction from the bride and groom would be understandably very different. However, I think the mental state that you have to be in as a wedding professional is similar- always ask yourself, do the bride and groom need to be involved in this, or can I take care of it myself, and do I have the authority to do so, etc. etc.

Anyways, good luck out there! :-) Hopefully you never have to deal with that type of "other shooter" lol...

=Matt=

alaios · March 13, 2015

divamum wrote: »

Be sure to tell them where to look and keep reminding them and TALKING to them the whole time. If you see them look away, drop camera from eye and remind them. Again. And again. Ask other photographer to wait until you're done with the setup, at which point they can snap away to their heart's content until you move on to the next batch.

I liked this advice more than the others. What if you discuss the issue with the couple (any other customer) before the event about their "priorities". By priorities I mean
1. where they shoudl be looking at and
2. they might ask from a relative and friend to stop shooting if the hired professional requires to.

Regards
Alex

Foques · March 20, 2015

Matthew Saville wrote: »

First, I approached the photographer directly, and asked them what they were doing. When I couldn't get a straight answer, I demanded that they take me to someone who could vouch for them immediately, OTHER than the bride and groom. When they tried to avoid this ultimatum as well, I went straight to the venue staff / security, pointed out the wedding crasher, and asked them to take care of the situation.

people actually do that?

Matthew Saville · March 20, 2015

Foques wrote: »

people actually do that?

Yup, they sneak into weddings to snap random portfolio material for whatever purposes. Maybe they're a low-budget stock photographer, maybe they're trying to actually get into weddings, or maybe they're just creepy and enjoy taking pictures of strangers.

If you see someone who looks semi-professional but kind of odd, who is clearly not WITH anybody, then that's a huge red flag. Uncle bobs with big pro cameras always have their significant other, or kids, or a bunch of friends, that they're constantly focusing on. But a wedding crasher just ninjas their way around casually snapping photos of everything while talking to almost nobody. (Unless they have the gall to try and pass out business cards!)

JonaBeth Russell · April 9, 2015

I guess I'm a little bit more laid back than most in this regard. The reality is, we live in an age where nearly everyone has at least an 8mp camera in their pockets, some have 18mp point & shoots, and an increasing number of folks have 18+mp DSLR shooters hanging around their necks. To expect folks to NOT whip out their cameras at a wedding is setting yourself up for big disappointment and frustration. Additionally, you are there to provide a service. X amount of dollars for X amount of coverage. Period. You don't own the poses, the backdrops, the scene. You simply are arranging these things in combination to create beautiful imagery that is congruent to the magic of the day.

Whenever I'm shooting a wedding (or any other event for that matter), and it's time for me to be the professional group photographer, I just use my voice and BE THE PROFESSIONAL GROUP PHOTOGRAPHER. People don't automatically know that they shouldn't be taking photos while you are. They don't automatically know that it's considered taboo to obtain the attention of the current photo subject. In fact, the bride & groom don't even have the wherewithal to know that they should only look at your camera. Heck, they're having the biggest day of their life in that moment, completely over-stimulated with attention.

Any time I see wandering eyes in my viewfinder, I take time to address it right then and there, once and for all, and it's done. I lower my camera, look at the subjects and, with a big smile, say, "Ok, right now, I need everyone to look at THIS (and I point to my lens) camera, and ONLY this camera. I need you to ignore these other cameras for a little while, then I'll get out of the way for them to take pictures."

I've never had anyone buck this, and all have responded with smiles, a chuckle and then getting back into my lens. Plus, the other shooters get a gentle message that they need to hold off for a moment, and because I explained that they'll have their chance after I'm done, they are patient.

digitalgram · March 1, 2016

I don't mind other people taking pictures. It is a wedding... they will want to. But... for photos of the couple together, the wow shots - I take the couple away on their own. If someone follows I explain this bit of the day is private and therefore don't allow others to take photos. Most understand why and those that don't get the message when the bridge tells them to... ahem.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk

Brett1000 · April 13, 2016

troopers wrote: »

It's unavoidable...and I don't spend energy fighting it. I inform B/G that I do not 'compete' with others with cameras. I allow others to take their photos first and then I do my thing....then usually after a while, the B/G eventually realizes that the others are a problem and asks them to stop.

really, everyone now has a camera - cell phone, DSLR, mirrorless, etc.
if you cannot deal with it get out of the 'photography' business !

JonTinkler · June 13, 2016

Lots of good answers above on how to handle this in future situations - everyone shooting every weekend has to face this all the time so it's definitely something to address.

For your immediate issue, you (OP) mentioned you took 3 shots but in none of them were both bride and groom looking your way. Was there one where the groom was, but the bride wasn't? If so, perhaps an old-fashioned eye-swap in Photoshop might get the job done to fix this particular situation?

Sorry if I'm Captain Obvious here :-)

SarasotaWeddingPhoto · June 16, 2016

Sarasota Wedding Photographer "The Same Can Happen"
This can happen to me too. What do you do?

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

So I shot a wedding last weekend where one of the groomsman was also a photographer. Unfortunately, he brought his camera along and was also snapping behind me as I was doing couples photos. Normally, I don't care about other people shooting behind me but when things like this happen:

I get irked. Bride? She knows where to look. Groom? Distracted by another person he knows is a photographer. I literally don't have a photo where they're both looking at me and I took three for good measure.

What would you do in this situation?

Like I said, normally I'm not bothered by other people shooting but other people with phones/small cameras usually wait till I'm done working or in the middle of a lull before snapping a shot but this time...

Brett1000 · July 10, 2016

SarasotaWeddingPhoto wrote: »

This can happen to me too. What do you do?

take more than one photo where the bride is smiling ?

kdog · July 11, 2016

SarasotaWeddingPhoto wrote: »

This can happen to me too. What do you do?

When I take a series where none of them are good, I'll resort to eye and/or head transplants to make one acceptable composite. I've gotten pretty good at them.

jonh68 · July 11, 2016

kdog wrote: »

When I take a series where none of them are good, I'll resort to eye and/or head transplants to make one acceptable composite. I've gotten pretty good at them.

This has saved me several times, especially with young ones who squirm in group shots. Burst mode is my friend in these type of group shots.

Even for the quick grabs where someone will come up to me and say "can you take my picture?" I fire off at least 3 shots so I can replace closed eyes if I need to.

Dealing with other "shooters"... quick question

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