Really great article on Photog's Rights

Mike Lane

I was browsing del.icio.us/popular/photography and came across a fantastic article about legal rights of photographers that was in USA today a few days ago.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2005-12-29-camera-laws_x.htm

Every one of us needs to know their rights when it comes to what you can and what you cannot photograph. That article makes things quite clear for those of us in the USA.

I wish I would have known it when I got confronted by a security guard when I was photographing a building in Tacoma. Oh well.

Stormdancing

Thanks so much, Mike.
I printed out the PDF and I am going to keep a copy in my bag.
I recently ran in to problems at a Christmas function which included crafts.
I was more into taking picture of the beautiful architecture and decorations than the actual crafts themselves. I was taking a picture of some handmade baskets with lights and ribbons decorating a stairwell, when the woman (I guess the weaver) ran up, stuck her face in the way and then actually grabbed the front of my lens. She said she didn't want pictures of her work taken. I said ok fine here and acted like I was pushing a button and said see no problem it's deleted and away I went. The picture itself turned out to be hilarious with her face stuck in it and I do still have it. Lens was ok except for some fingerprints.
These items were in a public place on display. Usually I try to talk to the craftsperson and ask, but in this case they were on a stairwell and not in a booth like most of the others. So from this article, they were in a public place on public display, open to the general public, I had the right to take pictures...................................

As it turns out the PR person for the Town of New Harmony wants to use my pictures from the festival for display and possibly brochures, but I'm still working all the ins and outs on that.

flyingdutchie

Mike Lane wrote:

I was browsing del.icio.us/popular/photography and came across a fantastic article about legal rights of photographers that was in USA today a few days ago.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2005-12-29-camera-laws_x.htm

Every one of us needs to know their rights when it comes to what you can and what you cannot photograph. That article makes things quite clear for those of us in the USA.

I wish I would have known it when I got confronted by a security guard when I was photographing a building in Tacoma. Oh well.

I've been shooting street photography for a while now and a few times i've been confronted. I have to make clear, though, that i'm a big guy, tall - 6'7" and just over 250 pounds - ... ... so that may have limited the amount of confrontations somewhat

To come back to the point, knowing your rights is a very good thing, but exersizing common sense even more! Picking a fight that you can not win - even if you're right - is not a smart thing to do (if you value your mental health, phyisical health or your equipment ) But then again, if you do decide to stand your ground, it is essential that you know where you stand, that you know your rights.

Stormdancing

flyingdutchie wrote:

To come back to the point, knowing your rights is a very good thing, but exersizing common sense even more! Picking a fight that you can not win - even if you're right - is not a smart thing to do (if you value your mental health, phyisical health or your equipment ) But then again, if you do decide to stand your ground, it is essential that you know where you stand, that you know your rights.

At a shade over 5 foot and not a heavyweight (but I'm not telling my weight) I'm not into picking many fights over photo ops, but that basket lady ..............I wanted to put one over her head for smearing up my lens like that. Being the peaceful little soul that I am, I just walked away.

flyingdutchie

Stormdancing wrote:

.............I wanted to put one over her head for smearing up my lens like that. Being the peaceful little soul that I am, I just walked away.

You should have done it anyway and taken a picture of it: post it on the internet or send it to a newspaper

JimM

Stormdancing wrote:

but that basket lady ..............I wanted to put one over her head for smearing up my lens like that. Being the peaceful little soul that I am, I just walked away.

You should have told her the only reason you were taking the photo was to recreate her baskets with out of the country labor. You already got enought pictures of the to do this effectively and that she should expect to see you at the next show with her designs at half the price!

At least this would make you feel better about her smearing the lens. After her reaction to your dublicating her work, you could politely tell her you'll call the whole importing basket deal off if she just lets you take the images for the mood (like you wanted to) and very politely apologizes for touching your lens.

wxwax

As I understand the links, if a security guard on private property (which can and does includes sidewalks and streets) asks you to stop shooting, you are required to obey.

Mike Lane

wxwax wrote:

As I understand the links, if a security guard on private property (which can and does includes sidewalks and streets) asks you to stop shooting, you are required to obey.

Only if you are on their property though.

Stormdancing

wxwax wrote:

As I understand the links, if a security guard on private property (which can and does includes sidewalks and streets) asks you to stop shooting, you are required to obey.

I always thought sidewalks, streets and alleys were public thorofares and maintained by the municipality not private individuals. I have seen roads/drives in rural areas marked private property and such.

StevenV

JPG Magazine, issue 5: Photography Is Not A Crime
http://jpgmag.com/issue5.html

asd

Good article. I'd read the Photographer's Right pdf long ago when it was linked from dgrin but forgotten the specifics - I'm paying closer attention to it during this reading now.

I got hassled a few months ago when I was in Pittsburgh on a business trip. I was walking around downtown and got to the Pittsburgh Plate Glass Place area, drawn by the beautiful shiny buildings. This being late November, there were Christmas lights and a big Christmas tree at the center of the bustling ice rink set between a whole bunch of these big glass buildings.

So I make a circuit around the rink taking photos of whatever catches my attention (mostly the buildings - I love architecture and lines) and am about to take a shot of myself using the reflection in one of the buildings when this security guard comes up and angrily tells me "No photos since 9/11". According to that article above, he was OK in asking me to stop since I was on their property (but I was initially OK to start since the area was open to the public). So I said "OK, I'll go over to the sidewalk and finish my photos.". He swells up and jerks his radio out:

"Security, security, we got a 9483, we got a 9483." (or some code)

I relented and said I'd leave. I'm not one for confrontations, didn't want a big issue messing with my trip, and though I was 95% sure I was OK taking shots from the street I didn't think this guy was one who'd listen to logic in his amped-up state.

So I crossed the street, walked around the corner, and, out of view of the security guard, got one final shot looking up the building. I figured I could outrun him if needed. No self-portrait though.

So, if you ever stop by PPG Place (map) in Pittsburgh, watch out for that one security guard who's a total dick. :smooch

wxwax

Before anyone gets too carried away and starts waving pieces of paper at cops and security guards, read the following story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060111/ts_alt_afp/afpentertainmentus_060111000253;_ylt=AlZffPRp5sfVF9f8uu_3tzKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3YXYwNDRrBHNlYwM3NjI-

It will be interesting to see if NYC's law withstands a serious court challenge. I appreciate that the law, per the story, applies to filming/videotaping, not photography.

Regardless, we must realize that public and law enforcement sentiment right now is not in our favor. Expect to be challenged when engaging in street photography in an urban area. Don't expect your rights to be respected.

I personally don't expect a police officer to know or care about what's written on my little piece of paper. It's unfortunate and I believe it's wrong. But it's also the flavor of the decade.

wxwax

Stormdancing wrote:

I always thought sidewalks, streets and alleys were public thorofares and maintained by the municipality not private individuals. I have seen roads/drives in rural areas marked private property and such.

Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case. I've been challenged more than once by security guards while shooting from a sidewalk. They asserted that the sidewalk was part of the building's development and property. I haven't checked with the city (or Cobb County.) If they're right, and it is their property, once they ask me to stop shooting, I reckon I must comply.

USAIR

wxwax wrote:

Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case. I've been challenged more than once by security guards while shooting from a sidewalk. They asserted that the sidewalk was part of the building's development and property. I haven't checked with the city (or Cobb County.) If they're right, and it is their property, once they ask me to stop shooting, I reckon I must comply.

I have had the same thing happen several times
Shooting from the sidewalk and then moving across the street to the other sidewalk
Only to be followed and harassed there too
They stood in front of my camera until I stopped shooting
I was shooting on the KY side of the Ohio River so I ask if it would be aright if I crossed the river and shot from Ohio back at their building...
They said, "Of course you can don't be silly" I said gee thanks

I am been in touch with the building manager about the guards and shooting from a public place
She had to get the word from the corporate headquarters.

What is bad is I had a guy come up to me and ask,
"What are you taking a picture of " I kind of got nasty with him and ask why you want to know :bluduh
He said he's a camera a nut and loves photography and he shoots here all the time.
Well I felt terrible and apologized to him and explained about being harassed
He understood so no problem

Fred

wxwax

Yeah, US, I'm constantly surprised that people don't like having their buildings photographed. It must trigger some innate fear, for it certainly doesn't seem to be a logical response.

Stormdancing

wxwax wrote:

Yeah, US, I'm constantly surprised that people don't like having their buildings photographed. It must trigger some innate fear, for it certainly doesn't seem to be a logical response.

I guess they could have worse, a person photographing their building who is also smoking.:):

wxwax

Stormdancing wrote:

I guess they could have worse, a person photographing their building who is also smoking.:):

USAIR

USAIR wrote:

I have had the same thing happen several times
Shooting from the sidewalk and then moving across the street to the other sidewalk
Only to be followed and harassed there too
They stood in front of my camera until I stopped shooting
I was shooting on the KY side of the Ohio River so I ask if it would be aright if I crossed the river and shot from Ohio back at their building...
They said, "Of course you can don't be silly" I said gee thanks

I am been in touch with the building manager about the guards and shooting from a public place
She had to get the word from the corporate headquarters.

What is bad is I had a guy come up to me and ask,
"What are you taking a picture of " I kind of got nasty with him and ask why you want to know :bluduh
He said he's a camera a nut and loves photography and he shoots here all the time.
Well I felt terrible and apologized to him and explained about being harassed
He understood so no problem

Fred

Just wanted to update everyone on this
Recieved a message on my answering machine from the building manager
The word from the corporate headquaters was that it would be ok to shoot photos of their building from any public place.

We knew that She just needs to pass that along to her security guys
Hope I don't see them anymore but I sure our paths will cross again

Fred

wxwax

USAIR wrote:

Just wanted to update everyone on this
Recieved a message on my answering machine from the building manager
The word from the corporate headquaters was that it would be ok to shoot photos of their building from any public place.

We knew that She just needs to pass that along to her security guys
Hope I don't see them anymore but I sure our paths will cross again

Fred

Way to go! Amazing what a little follow-up can do. I should try that myself!

Art Scott

I was photoing a sunset from a parking lot in the middle of town..not my ideal spot but when I left the resturant that I had dinner in I saw the great sunset....as I was setting up my tripod in the bed of my lil pick up and just started composing my pic my truck began to shake....it was a security guard for the strip mall telling me I could not shot the buildings...He was trying to tell me it was under the homeland security acts and I could not shoot them....I reached out with my monopod and whacked his fingers on my truck and told him he could not touch my vehicle either.....sunset gone...I also told him that it was not any building it was the d*** sunset I was after and as soon as I got out of my truck and put my camera away I was going to report him...I never found out who he worked for no uniform or markings on his car....so I drove by where he was parked and took pics of him and his car tag.......I have never seen him again and I did make a complaint to the local cops.....he may have been fired....cause I flipped the video lever on my A2 and recorded his rant.