Sam's Post Got Edited
photoclick
Registered Users Posts: 278 Major grins
wow... Sam - where did the entire part of your post go? I saw a much bigger version of your past list night:)
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That is a very good question!!!!!!
Moderators fess up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sam
It looks like you posted the part where I supported SmugMug and but deleted to part where I Questioned the veracity of two other statements you made!!!
I can reup itt in a flash. I love internet:)
tailoredportraits.com
Thank you, thank you!!!!!
This is really unacceptable and disingenuous. My comments are my honest opinions both for and against.
If I have any facts wrong, please correct me. I will listen.
If you want to have my heartfelt support and accolades honesty and character dictates you must also accept when I challenge or disagree with you.
Nether points of view were obscene, vulgar, dishonest, or disingenuous. I can see only one reason for this action and it ain't a good one!
Best response would be along the lines of "sorry our bad, won't happen again".
Sam
Wow, we've reached a new level of dishonesty here on Dgrin. I can't believe the 700% shipping thread is still there (I just checked that all posts were there, for the record). Deleting an entire post is one thing - removing the negative parts and KEEPING the pro-SM stuff is just shameful. What has happened to SM...
I know, and I have always respected that. However, someone with admin/moderator power did edit Sam's post as noted, and in doing so totally changed the meaning of his post. I have adminned VB for many years, it should be a very simple matter to see who did, and if they posted a reason why.
You say it's not your policy to censor threads, yet that is exactly what you did. In response to getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar you divert the conversation in an attempt to divert the issue by stating your alleged policy and claiming hurt feeling.
Again why don't you, SmugMug, own up to this and apologize? I don't personally need an apology, but I do think your SmugMug clients do. If you don't take responsibility for your wrong doings how can we expect any positive changes to take place?
As a long time SmugMug customer and supporter I am trying to point out the error in your ways and hoping you can get back to the right path. If my only intent was to trash SmugMug there would be no ambiguity in my actions. I guess the best single word I can use to describe my feelings about SmugMug's current actions, and it's owners is sadness.
The things I have written are not intended to be hurtful but are based on my opinion and facts. If your hurt by this maybe you deserve it.
Man up (yes I know politically incorrect) and do the right thing.
Sam
Opinions and facts are one thing that I'm OK with, but calling me a liar and stating how dishonest I am and SmugMug is, is a totally different scenario. This isn't the first time you've done that, and, to use your words, makes me sad. SmugMug (me, Ben, Sheif, etc) has been nothing but honest with you here.
With that said, I'll look into the post and see if the logs give any insight.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Please don't divert the conversation by making claims without any context.
Note my post with regard to this issue.
My comment: Some one asked or stated that you are lying. Well, to be blunt it's really hard to believe your actually dumb enough to not know you have been disingenuous (kindest word I could think of).
I stand by this statement. One must read the entire thread to understand the context. Then decide for yourself if my comment was accurate or not. http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=251730
As for dishonesty.............again one must read the entire thread. I stand behind my statements here as well.
Read the entire Smugmug Shipping over 700% markup! thread, then decide.
I have clearly stated the facts leading me to conclude (you, SmugMug) have been disingenuous and misleading with regard to the cost of your shopping cart service. I also stated I believe it could actually amount to fraud and be legally actionable.
I can only assume SmugMug is concerned and scratching their heads about what to do. Well they could censor my posts. Wait they already did that. They could disappear me from Digital Grin and hope no one notices. After all it works in China, and Russia.
Now stop with the conversation diversions and undocumented out of context claims. Prove I am wrong and I will not only apologize but will flagellate myself unmercifully.
Balls in your court.
My previous post with reference to disingenuous statements and dishonesty:
No more Mr. nice guy.
I have carefully read through this entire thread. I started being very supportive, but facts are facts.
Some one asked or stated that you are lying. Well, to be blunt it's really hard to believe your actually dumb enough to not know you have been disingenuous (kindest word I could think of).
Now here is the scary part, FRAUD!
a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right
b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick
In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. Fraud is both a civil wrong (i.e., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud and/or recover monetary compensation) and a criminal wrong (i.e., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities). The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits.
Should some hungry shyster type take notice and see $$ in their dreams you will pay the penalty.
Oh sure you can hire your shyster type and hope he or she is a better shyster type that the other shyster type but very costly no matter the outcome.
I predict this thread will not only be shut down but deleted.
I am both angry and sad. Sad to think the people (SmugMug owners and family) I had such faith in would resort to this deception for money.
Sam
I'm sorry it has to come to this, I really am. I want, and as you'll see from countless examples on this forum, it actually is, dgrin to be a place of open communication, where we can all talk about and enjoy photography. You've asked questions, and I've answered them openly and honestly. You can even disagree and claim that we're being deceitful, that's your opinion, but what is not acceptable is to be rude, name call, or put down other dgrin members, whether it be SmugMug customers, employees, or anyone on this community.
Disagreeing is okay but being aggressively rude to anyone here is not. dGrin should be a place where employees and customers feel welcome at all times to participate. Your behavior, name calling and belief that we deserve to be hurt does the opposite and it simply cannot be allowed.
As you've seen in all of these threads, I'm more than happy to discuss these issues. The name calling (identified in red above) cannot be tolerated, is a violation of the DGrin Terms of Service, and we cannot condone this behavior. I really really don't want to do this, because I was hoping we could actually discuss the issues, but I'm going to have to pose a temporary ban on you for these words. I'm more than happy to discuss these issues with you upon your return, provided we all can avoid the name calling, bashing, and putting down. Bullying will not be tolerated on dgrin.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
To be perfectly honest, it used to be more friendly. We have employees who don't come here anymore because people are rude to them, pick fights, and call them names... exactly what happened earlier. The even sadder part is that a bunch of those employees that don't participate anymore, we found them here on Dgrin and hired them. They were regulars, and now they avoid it because people are mean to them and it isn't fun anymore.
I don't think anybody wants that. It's not productive, and frankly it isn't fun. If you are here to argue and call names, there are tons of other places online to do so. Some of them are even photography related. If you are here to talk photography and SmugMug, awesome. Let's do that. And let's do that nicely.
I really really not offended if you disagree with how we build something or approach a situation. So much positive change for our product AND company have come out of this community. So yes, tell us how we built something wrong. Tell us how you would prefer it to be built. But don't call the designers and engineers idiots.
That's largely the rule here. Be nice to people, customers and employees alike. If you can't do that, don't hit the post button. Walk away, take a breath, come back when you are ready to contribute productively.
Thanks for listening. I'm still super glad we have this place, but there are times when someone links a thread to me and my heart sinks because I don't want to jump into a flame war. That simply shouldn't be the case.
tailoredportraits.com
I fear it has been building for some time.
Over the past few months there have been a number of (what I believe) "self-righteous" posts.
People getting indignant and hostile because Smugmug wasn't doing something (or doing something) that they did not like or did not suit them. In my opinion, some of these were unreasonably aggressive &/or endowed with a sense of over-entitlement.
Are there things I would like Smugmug to do differently? Yes, of course.
Sometimes I can work around them (thanks to the wonderful members here).
Sometimes I just have to live with/without them and move on (hoping that future changes will address my concerns).
I don't accept the notion that Smugmug are out to make enemies of their customers.
Quite the contrary - I feel they are trying hard to make Smugmug even better and more responsive to user requests.
It appears that sometimes people are not satisfied which the speed of implementation. I get that and I get that everything may not work exactly as we might want.
My only hope is that people can discuss ideas and requests in a civil, friendly many ... with good will between Smugmug and users. It would certainly make for a much more pleasurable experience when on this forum.
Disagree, put your point of view, outline your arguments, suggest improvements/ideas ... but please do this without being aggressive/demanding/impolite. Smugmug (or any other company) is not going to implement everything that is suggested by its users. They may well have a different set/timeline of priorities than me. Their company ... their resources ... their priorities.
I have found Smugmug to be responsive to user needs and certainly willing to listen.
As a user, you always have the final say. If Smugmug doesn't provide the features, user experience that you want ... you can be part of the solution and work for change, you can live with the shortcomings, or you can move on if they are too unacceptable.
As I said, this is a sad, sad day for this forum and this community. :cry
www.acecootephotography.com
1. People are not "mean" to SM employees here, and certainly not just for the sake of being mean. There are misleading and at times directly untrue statements from SM in, for example, the 700% shipping thread. There are SM employees directly contradicting each other in them. You don't like to be called names, we don't like being blatantly misled.
2. I'm sorry, but I have been in the customer service industry for 25 years. Not once have I EVER been able to say, or allowed an employee to say, that they don't have to give support because the customers are "mean". I'm not trying to be offensive here, but that is not how the business world works. This is not a social experience - most of DGrin *is* social, yes, but the support forums are what they say - support forums. And in most cases, by far the most helpful replies are from non-employees anyway.
3. I have never called names, AFAIR, but I have been very angry on here at times, and for good reason. Those reasons are directly related to SM practices and products. If I'm not supposed to talk about that here, then I don't know why those forum sections exist. Most businesses (mine included) would be THRILLED to have customers complaining on their own internal discussion boards, and not taking it all over social media. People complaining and criticizing is a GOOD thing for a business. The bad thing is when people silently take their business elsewhere.
4. What happened to Sam's post? You guys are all over the name calling and the hurt feelings, but not a word on what happened there. The portion of the post that was removed was 100% on topic, accurate, and not personally insulting.
tailoredportraits.com
The suspension was to last 2 weeks.
It looks like I honestly and accidentally screwed up. The edit history shows that I updated his post, though it was not my intention to do so. What I believe happened is that I went to reply to his post but accidentally edited it instead. As many of you know, I use the "Reply" and "Quote" buttons to bring in the text of your posts, and then cut it up to respond to the appropriate parts. I had initially intended to respond to part of Sam's post, but after my attempt to help with the shipping cost thread, I've since learned that sometimes replying only makes the situation worse, and decided not to post my reply.
Screen Shot 2015-12-30 at 4.11.49 PM.png
While I'm sure someone will claim that I'm lying, I've never been in, nor plan on getting in the habit of changing or censoring posts on dgrin that fall within the Terms of Service. This should always be a safe and open place to discuss photography. This was an honest mistake and one that could have been corrected without name-calling, bashing, or jumping to abusive conclusions. In the future I'll be more careful when replying/posting/saving, though I think it will certainly help when we upgrade dGrin to our new software at some point soon.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
I'm familiar with using vBulleting to answer questions, deleting spam, and moving posts around, but tracking down edit logs and admin history was a bit beyond my understanding at the time. Some of the other moderators were able to help me out. I began trying to track it down immediately, but between needing some time to figure out how and the holidays, some time passed.
Long story short, it shouldn't happen again.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations