Canon 5D MKIV

kdog

Who's buying? 30MP, 4K video, and minor sundry improvements over the 5DMKIII. Ho hum.

Oh yeah, and the dual-pixel sensor will let you set focus in post. Wait, what???

David_S85

Hmmmm. Well, the reviews that include advance copies of Canon's new version of DPP4.x will be very interesting, to say the least. Bokeh control in post also, and additional flare and ghosting adjustments. But you have to use the Canon software to do this and record two separate RAW files for each shot. Think 70+MB each.

Then if you want to do a 3 shot HDR bracket, or that plus a 5 shots across pano.... (2 x 3 x 5) x 35MB = 1GB. Youch.

kdog

Time to buy San Disk stock.

BTW, that Nokishita site lists the kit lens as being the EF24-105mm F4L IS II USM. (Yes, II).

Google translation

David_S85

Yes. That's the new MkII kit lens, rumored about a year ago. There's also a MkIII version of the 16-35 that is out at the same time. My current kit is getting old, like their owner.

BTW, the MkIV body has that extra mirror suspension like its 5DS and R cousins.

NikonsandVstroms

kdog wrote: »

Time to buy San Disk stock.

BTW, that Nokishita site lists the kit lens as being the EF24-105mm F4L IS II USM. (Yes, II).

Google translation

SanDisk was bought by WD and I might be buying a lot more of their drives with these file sizes, I hope my computer can handle processing them!

My other hope is that the base ISO noise and dynamic range has been expanded as well at least getting closer to the D750. My second shooter uses Canon and IIRC is looking for a new body so I'll probably be getting a bunch of these files in the not too distant future.

David_S85 wrote: »

Hmmmm. Well, the reviews that include advance copies of Canon's new version of DPP4.x will be very interesting, to say the least. Bokeh control in post also, and additional flare and ghosting adjustments. But you have to use the Canon software to do this and record two separate RAW files for each shot. Think 70+MB each.

Then if you want to do a 3 shot HDR bracket, or that plus a 5 shots across pano.... (2 x 3 x 5) x 35MB = 1GB. Youch.

My worry is that the separate software is going to be a PITA since I'll have to match the look I set up in LR, now if it could export a corrected RAW file that would be perfect and then I could just plug that into LR and process as normal.

Richard

NikonsandVstroms wrote: »

My worry is that the separate software is going to be a PITA since I'll have to match the look I set up in LR, now if it could export a corrected RAW file that would be perfect and then I could just plug that into LR and process as normal.

While it's kind of cool to have after-the-fact focus adjustments, I suspect that it's not worth breaking my regular workflow. I often take several shots of the same scene using different focal points, then choose the one I like best, and I don't need special equipment or software for that. Unless a standard emerges that Adobe and camera manufacturers agree on (doubtful), I think this feature will mostly remain a novelty for pros, like the Lytro. While it might rescue a flawed shot once in a while, it's probably more useful for cell phone, casual use.

kdog

Richard wrote: »

While it's kind of cool to have after-the-fact focus adjustments, I suspect that it's not worth breaking my regular workflow. I often take several shots of the same scene using different focal points, then choose the one I like best, and I don't need special equipment or software for that. Unless a standard emerges that Adobe and camera manufacturers agree on (doubtful), I think this feature will mostly remain a novelty for pros, like the Lytro. While it might rescue a flawed shot once in a while, it's probably more useful for cell phone, casual use.

In the world of professional event photography (which is probably the largest segment of the professional industry), you don't get to focus twice or thrice. You get a millisecond or two to time your shot and then the moment is gone forever. The ability to tweak a missed focus to perfection, even if seldom used, is extremely compelling. You're right, I don't think it would alter my workflow. But I'd have no problem at all firing up DPP to tweak a missed focus on a customer image. My question is how much correction can it actually do.

puzzledpaul

kdog wrote: »

... My question is how much correction can it actually do.

Mine too.

pp

Richard

kdog wrote: »

In the world of professional event photography (which is probably the largest segment of the professional industry), you don't get to focus twice or thrice.

Point taken. So as you said, it then becomes a matter of how much correction control it supports. We'll see...

jmphotocraft

I'm also hoping dual pixel raw will provide a significant boost in dynamic range. If it does all these things then the question for me becomes 5D4 or 5DSR?

ziggy53

jmphotocraft wrote: »

I'm also hoping dual pixel raw will provide a significant boost in dynamic range. If it does all these things then the question for me becomes 5D4 or 5DSR?

I don't think that Dual Pixel Raw* technology will have any effect on Dynamic Range (DR), but if the CMOS imager and storage technology of the Canon 80D and 1D X Mark II is employed then DR should be improved over previous models by, perhaps, as much as 2/3 stop.

*(... Assuming that Dual Pixel Raw technology exists in the context of the rumor sites' ruminations.)

Cygnus Studios

Personally I find it to be an excellent marketing idea, especially to those coming from cell phones (where this technology is already in effect) and to those transitioning from point and shoot systems or lower end dslr systems.

For those who have been out here earning their living with a camera for any length of time, I don't see this focus after the fact being enough to sway the purchase decision in an of itself.

In event work, 4k video is having a much bigger impact at the moment than anything else.

jmphotocraft

ziggy53 wrote: »

I don't think that Dual Pixel Raw* technology will have any effect on Dynamic Range (DR), but if the CMOS imager and storage technology of the Canon 80D and 1D X Mark II is employed then DR should be improved over previous models by, perhaps, as much as 2/3 stop.

*(... Assuming that Dual Pixel Raw technology exists in the context of the rumor sites' ruminations.)

Canon has patented the use of dual pixels for creating HDRs...

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20150181103&IDKey=97FBC1FAFFB9

ziggy53

Whoa, or as Leonard Nimoy used to say (as the character "Spock"), "Fascinating".

Not sure that a Canon 5D series body and "Dual Pixel" technology directly translates to Patent "US 2015/0181103 A1" Document's contents?

Good find, Jack!

---

Tell you what, I've been wrong before:

The Punishment was broccoli





The color I turn when I eat broccoli:

---

This time, if I'm wrong about the next 5D (whatever follows the Canon 5D Mark III) having an HDR mode based on single-image capture (no matter the technology), I'll let my daughter's dogs lick my face, something I truly detest! :cry

(The only other time is when I was dog sitting and her little Jack Russell Terrier, "Diesel", licked me on my face trying to wake me so I could take him out. )

David_S85

5DIV First Impressions at DPReview

ziggy53

Canon USA, 5D Mark IV Product Information

Well I'll be switched, the Dual Pixel RAW is a reality and there is some benefit demonstrated in the "Features - Dual Pixel RAW" tab at the above link.

Specifically, Diffraction Correction, Image Micro-Adjustment and Bokeh Shift may all be adjusted in post.

Interestingly, at least to me, is that these effects will be different shooting in either Landscape or Portrait camera positions, since the Dual Pixels are oriented accordingly. (I doubt that Portrait camera orientation will give desired results in most cases, but the results may be "interesting".)

ziggy53

Canon UK 5D Mark IV Product Information

Imaging-Resource has a slightly different take on the new camera.

jmphotocraft

It will surely be an amazing all-arounder camera. Sadly, no dog licks for Ziggy's face. If I can't have dual-ISO then I think I'll try my hand at 50mp. 5DSR for me!

David_S85

@Jack: Dual ISO is available through ML -- just not on MkIV's yet. Has ML done anything for the 5dR series?

@Ziggy: For what would have been portrait orientation shots, since we now have 30MP, perhaps just recrop a landscape shot to portrait and get all the benefits of the new features?

kdog

Cool demonstration of DPAF micro-focus adjustment in post!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQ9MSRRvn4

I guess the takeaway here is that it's truly just a micro-focus adjust. In a different video Canon gave an example of a picture of an eye with eyelashes sharp and the cornea slightly soft, and being able to pull the cornea into sharpness as well. Not a huge game changer for sure, but certainly nice to have.

jmphotocraft

David_S85 wrote: »

@Jack: Dual ISO is available through ML

Have you used it? Seems klugey, and like I'd risk bricking my camera with no recourse if anything went wrong.

David_S85

jmphotocraft wrote: »

Have you used it? Seems klugey, and like I'd risk bricking my camera with no recourse if anything went wrong.

I haven't. I also haven't needed it. If I shot a lot of video, I might though.

ziggy53

jmphotocraft wrote: »

Have you used it? Seems klugey, and like I'd risk bricking my camera with no recourse if anything went wrong.

Yes, I've used Magic Lantern on my Canon 5D mark II, 7D and 5D Mark III with no real issues.

Yes, you do have to be careful and follow every step for installation with precision.

Sorry, I don't have anything worthy of showing which required Magic Lantern Dual ISO, but others do have pretty incredible stuff to show (using a Canon 5D series body with Magic Lantern, which "may" include Dual ISO).

"Frames of Life" was shot on a Canon 5D Mk III RAW mode with Magic Lantern (exclusively).

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To get the discussion back to the new Canon 5D Mark IV, the new camera feature of HDR Video on the 5D Mark IV was directly inspired by the (now) nearly 5-year-old Magic Lantern HDR Video feature. The difference is that the ML version only worked at 15 fps (output) and was a pain to use.

It appears that the Canon 5D Mark IV acquires video at 60 fps in HDR Video mode and then combines two adjoining frames, each captured at a different ISO, producing 30 frames-per-second 1080P HDR Video "in the camera". I guarantee you that this has never been done before in a dSLR.

We will have to wait to see the resulting quality because I can't find any demo videos using the 5D Mark IV and the HDR Video yet.

Check out the Canon USA channel on YouTube for some early demo videos, starting with: https://youtu.be/nYzp5sGqMVw

ziggy53

Spoke too soon.

Demo video, Canon EOS 5D Mark IV HDR

cmason

Looks like a fine upgrade, but so far I am not regretting my fairly recent MkIII purchase. I was worried that the MK4 would make the MK3 feel 'old'...well it was already old anyway. Sure, I always want more focus pts and less noise, but my leap from 40D to 5DMkIII was so huge that the step up to Mk4 seems small to me. Of course, I haven't run into issues or things I wish I had...yet. As I do not in any way make a living at this (or even manage to pay for the power to recharge camera batteries), most of the features in the new body are of little impact to me. IMHO.

jmphotocraft

cmason wrote: »

Looks like a fine upgrade, but so far I am not regretting my fairly recent MkIII purchase. I was worried that the MK4 would make the MK3 feel 'old'...well it was already old anyway. Sure, I always want more focus pts and less noise, but my leap from 40D to 5DMkIII was so huge that the step up to Mk4 seems small to me. Of course, I haven't run into issues or things I wish I had...yet. As I do not in any way make a living at this (or even manage to pay for the power to recharge camera batteries), most of the features in the new body are of little impact to me. IMHO.

40D to 5D3 is a massive upgrade. 5D3 to 5D4 is incremental. The 5D4 will be awesome, but the 5D3 is already awesome. We are in the realm of diminishing returns now. Personally I'll be upgrading my 5D3 to a 5DSR, but only because shooting professionally part time allows me to also own a 7D2. If I could only have one camera it would be my 5D3 and I'd probably sit out this upgrade.

David_S85

jmphotocraft wrote: »

40D to 5D3 is a massive upgrade. 5D3 to 5D4 is incremental. The 5D4 will be awesome, but the 5D3 is already awesome. We are in the realm of diminishing returns now. Personally I'll be upgrading my 5D3 to a 5DSR, but only because shooting professionally part time allows me to also own a 7D2. If I could only have one camera it would be my 5D3 and I'd probably sit out this upgrade.

+100.

I also upgraded from a 40D to the 5D3 and it was awesome. It still is. I'll be watching on the sidelines for quite a while. In the mean time, CanonPriceWatch lets me know when to pop for stuff used or as a refurb -- something I'll be doing from now on. I can see myself with a 5DmkV or somesuch, when the time comes. My 16-35 mk2 and 24-105 will also still work for a while and no need to upgrade those at all.

kdog

The 5D4 may be just incremental over the 5D3 for photographers, but a quantum leap for videographers with the DPAF live focusing system plus 4K shooting. Of course if you don't do video, that's pretty superfluous. I do video so this body is huge for me. For example, I often taken on jobs for both video and stills for the same event. Today that requires having an extra hand shooting video. So I'm really interested in the prospect of being able to shoot 4K video and then just grab perfectly timed 8.8MP stills from that. That will be a game changer for some of us and put more profit in my pocket while hopefully giving a better product.

ziggy53

kdog wrote: »

... For example, I often taken on jobs for both video and stills for the same event. Today that requires having an extra hand shooting video. So I'm really interested in the prospect of being able to shoot 4K video and then just grab perfectly timed 8.8MP stills from that. That will be a game changer for some of us and put more profit in my pocket while hopefully giving a better product.

Absolutely true!

That's also one of the reasons why Canon chose the Motion-JPEG (MJPEG) codec for the 5D Mark IV and shooting DCI 4kP30 (29.97 fps) video. That's about 30 discrete frames (essentially individual images) every second and at a bandwidth of 500 Megabits per second those are pretty high quality images too. (Plenty for local and regional newspaper use, even with moderate cropping as needed.)

Here is the full table of available video modes (from the Canon USA page: Video Features in the EOS 5D Mark IV)



Note that Canon has a large number of All-I video capture modes in MOV which are similar, discrete frame (highly editable and with single image extraction capabilities) recording modes, all the way up to 120 fps at 1280 x 720 (HD-720P120).

Previously, in the Canon stable of products, you would need either a Canon EOS-1D C or a new Canon 1D X Mark II, to shoot high-quality video at 4K. Canon is making high-quality 4K video available to many more people with the introduction of the 5D Mark IV. (Note that AF is not available in H-Movie mode, and both AF and Audio capture are unavailable in HFR-Movie mode.)

WTG, Canon! thumb

jmphotocraft

kdog wrote: »

The 5D4 may be just incremental over the 5D3 for photographers, but a quantum leap for videographers with the DPAF live focusing system plus 4K shooting. Of course if you don't do video, that's pretty superfluous. I do video so this body is huge for me. For example, I often taken on jobs for both video and stills for the same event. Today that requires having an extra hand shooting video. So I'm really interested in the prospect of being able to shoot 4K video and then just grab perfectly timed 8.8MP stills from that. That will be a game changer for some of us and put more profit in my pocket while hopefully giving a better product.

Not so fast. Looks like there is considerable rolling shutter, which will ruin some frame grabs. Also 4K is shot in 1.7x crop.

I would be interested to see if the frame grab could be used to easily catch a baseball compressed on a bat.

kdog

jmphotocraft wrote: »

Not so fast. Looks like there is considerable rolling shutter, which will ruin some frame grabs.

Source?
EDIT: Never mind, found it here: https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

Also 4K is shot in 1.7x crop.

True and this is a real turn-off.

I would be interested to see if the frame grab could be used to easily catch a baseball compressed on a bat.

I don't see how it could. You typically use shutterspeeds at double your frame rates to get smooth video. So how much action can you really freeze at 1/60th or even 1/120th? I hope I'm missing something here, but I don't see this working.