TS-E lenses?

DanielB

what is the point of a Tilt-shift lense? how could one's photos benefit from this, and how is it use and on what is it used?:scratch

just one of those questions thats always been in the back of my mind and never got answered.:D


Daniel

pathfinder

Tilt/Shift lenses is an attempt to create the ability for a 35mm camera to mimic the control of Depth of Field control that is present in formal view camers with tilts, shifts and swings.

The ability to shift the film plane from perpendicular to the shooting axis introduces the ability to control more thoroughly the depth of field.

You can read a better description than mine here, Daniel

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/movements.shtml

And here in wikipedia - Are you familiar with wikipedia??:):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera

ian408

Nice explanation PF.

In addition to what he says, a tilt-shift lens allows you to correct tilt that
would otherwise be introduced by a traditional wide angle lens.

T/S lenses are often used in architectural photography.

Ian

pathfinder

Good point Ian, Shifts are frequently used to correct perspective distortion - the converging parallel lines caused by tilting a camera body up slightly to allow all of a tall building to fit on the image sensor. Tilts are used to change the relationship between the sensor plane and the plane of focus so that they do not have to be parallel.

With a T&S lens shifted, the film plane can kept vertical, and the lens raised or lowered slightly to allow the image to focus on the film plane and avoid the converging lines of the sides of building.

USAIR

Also used for macro work too
More comtrol over DOF see here
My problem is which one do I want between 45 and 90mm

Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L
Canon TS-E 45mm f/2.8
Canon TS-E 90mm f/2.8

Fred

ChrisKraftPhoto

Hey all; quick question on Tilt/Shift lenses. For general landscape (pano's) and architectural photographs, which would serve better; Canon's 45mm or 90mm? Should I think of them in the same way as a standard telephotos?

Thanks!

Andy

PSDude wrote:

For general landscape (pano's)

I use the 24 Tilt-shift

LiquidAir

pathfinder wrote:

Good point Ian, Tilts are frequently used to correct perspective distortion - the converging parallel lines caused by tilting a camera body up slightly to allow all of a tall building to fit on the image sensor.
With a T&S lens the film plane is kept vertical, and the lens is raised slightly to allow the image to focus on the film plane and avoid the converging lines of the sides of building.

Actually, you have it slightly backward there...

A tilt is a tilt of the lens which correspondingly tilts the focal plane so that is not parallel with the film plane. Tilts are often used in landscape photography to adjust the focal plane to follow the land.

A shift is a shift of the lens center axis away from alignment with the center of the sensor (or film frame). A shift allows the camera to look up or down (or left or right) without changing the angle of the sensor. Since the perspective of a shot is determined by the angle of the sensor, shifts let you independantly control the perspecive and point of view of the camera (to a degree). The most common use of shifts is to maintain parallel verticals in architectural photography by leveling the camera and using a vertical shift to frame the shot.

I've used a 45TS-E for table top and archtectural work (sometimes with a 12mm spacer).

ChrisKraftPhoto

Thanks for the reply guys.

I'm thinking of going with the 45mm? Someone please validate this for me

ian408

I can recommend the 24TSE.

LiquidAir

Here are a couple photos I took with the 45 TS-E





In particular the second shot shows the effect of a fairly strong shift.

My biggest complaint about the 45 TS-E is chromatic abberation. Usually CA is easy to correct in software, but tilts and shifts make the corrections more difficult.

ChrisKraftPhoto

Would you still see the chromatic abberation with the 24 or 90mm?

ChrisKraftPhoto

Thanks for the explanation and guidance guys, I really appreciate it!

I think I'll go with the 45.

LiquidAir

PSDude wrote:

Would you still see the chromatic abberation with the 24 or 90mm?

Probably. I don't have either of those lenses. Usually CA is more of an issue the wider the lens is, so I would expect to see the most at 24mm and the least at 90mm, but that is a generalization. From reviews I have read the 90mm is particularly well regarded, but it is best to choose a focal length suited to your subject.

ChrisKraftPhoto

Sweet; thanks LA.

I'm pretty good with PS so if I do run into anything, hopefully I can correct it in post.

Again; thanks to everyone for the advice I'll be sure to post my first T/S images.

LiquidAir

PSDude wrote:

Sweet; thanks LA.

I'm pretty good with PS so if I do run into anything, hopefully I can correct it in post.

Again; thanks to everyone for the advice I'll be sure to post my first T/S images.

The issue is really that tools specifically designed to correct CA (like the one in ACR) assume the optic center of the lens is in the center of the frame. If you are shooting with a significant lens shift, the correction tool gets it wrong.

ChrisKraftPhoto

I've never really dealt with too much CA. Are there plugins specifically for it?

LiquidAir

PSDude wrote:

I've never really dealt with too much CA. Are there plugins specifically for it?

Adobe Camera RAW and Lighroom both have a slider for correcting it. DxO Optics will correct it automatically if they have a plug-in for your body/lens combo (they don't have plug ins for the TS-E lenses). I think PT Lens is also capable of correcting it and there are likely others.

ChrisKraftPhoto

Okay; thanks for the info LA, I appreciate it

Shizam

Of all the lenses I have access to (and Andy can attest to a vast array) you'll have to pry the 24L TSE and 90TSE out of my cold dead hands. I _love_ these lenses for the amount of creative control they allow, I'm looking for the 45 TSE as well. If I had to get rid of all of my equipment but one or two lenses these two would be the ones I'd decide on. Course, YMMV as these fit right into the type of photography I enjoy most.

schmoo

I have used and gotten addicted to the creativity of using the 24mm as a landscape lens. I did have an issue seeing red/green CA in the images but Marc pointed out that there is a tool in ACR (also stated earlier) that allows you to minimize this. Lens corrections --> Red/Cyan fringe.

LiquidAir

schmoo wrote:

I have used and gotten addicted to the creativity of using the 24mm as a landscape lens. I did have an issue seeing red/green CA in the images but Marc pointed out that there is a tool in ACR (also stated earlier) that allows you to minimize this. Lens corrections --> Red/Cyan fringe.

Have you gotten that to work well with the lens at big shifts? It completely failed me on this shot (an HDR with the 45 TS-E) and after tearing my hair out for a while I finally selected the fringes and desaturated the red and cyan.

schmoo

Ken, that's still a really lovely image! I'm not sure I know what you mean by big shifts. I keep a 30% overlap with the square shape of the final image in mind, shooting it. Do you mean multiple shifts, like 5 images utilizing the full shift?

I have one image that I tried with that when I was still trying to figure the lens out. The CA was pretty bad at the top and bottom ends, I admit.

jogle

I have fallen in love with the 45 and almost never use it shifted, I'm all about swinging that plane of focus all over the show:

http://www.ogle.co.nz/gallery/4133502#241220489



http://www.ogle.co.nz/gallery/4133502#241223189

LiquidAir

schmoo wrote:

Ken, that's still a really lovely image!

Thanks! It's the barn at Pierce Point Ranch, Point Reyes. I have been meaning to go on one of the park service tours up there so I can get inside some of the other buildings.

schmoo wrote:

I'm not sure I know what you mean by big shifts. I keep a 30% overlap with the square shape of the final image in mind, shooting it. Do you mean multiple shifts, like 5 images utilizing the full shift?

I have been using mine for perspective control rather than panoramas. I set the camera up with a bubble level in the hot shoe and then frame the shot by shifting the lens.

With a normal lens, the fringing due to chromatic abberation is absent in the center of the frame and grows larger toward the corners of the frame. However when a TS lens is shifted that pattern changes because the center of the sensor is no longer aligned with the center of the lens. As an example, in the shot of Pierce Point barn, the center of the lens is pointed at the fence outside the door which is about 1/3 of the way from the center to the bottom of the frame. Since the sensor of my camera is 36mm along that axis, that works out to the the lens being shifted about 6mm from the center of my sensor. The net result of that is that area of the frame with the least fringing is near the door rather than the center of the frame and the fringing is much stronger in the rafter the top of the frame than it is in the planks on the floor.

The gaps between the boards at the top of the frame showed very strong fringing which was making a mess of my attempts to blend exposures. When I tried to correct for it, I found that dialing in sufficient correction for the top of the frame would overcorrect at the bottom of the frame because ACR assumes that the center of the fringing pattern is the center of the frame. To properly correct the fringing I had to extend the bottom of the image so that the center of the fringing pattern was in the center of the files. That, however, meant I couldn't work from the RAW file when introduced other hassles in my processing.

If you are shooting panoramas and correcting the CA after stitching then likely the center of the fringnig pattern is in the center of the frame and everything works out fine. However I have found correcting CA to be a hassle when I am shooting a single frame and using shifts for perspective control.

ian408

The panorama is multiple exposures. Perspective control is usually only a single
exposure.

Tango

thanks Ian, i see.

Tango

btw, i still have not ordered my t/s lens, (im struggling to get that last little bit to pay for it....) time, just need some time....

but i have a question....
as a helper to my question let me state that i plan on mostly using this lens for
near/far focus....i.e. little flowers in the fg and big cliffs in the bg...

this maybe a simple thing and im not understanding but i hope for the help...does one use the t/s lens only in landscape orientation?

ive read about marc muench modding his lens to tilt on the same access so he can do near/far, but that means in a landscape orientaion right?

if i use it in a portrait orientation wouldnt i be able to do the same type of near/far focus?

im not sure if i should get my lens modified like marc did....

just thinking about how this lens works is like trying to pat the top of my head while rubbing my belly and blowing a bubble with bubblegum....
im getting all confused

Scott_Quier

AaronNelson wrote:

btw, i still have not ordered my t/s lens, (im struggling to get that last little bit to pay for it....) time, just need some time....

but i have a question....
as a helper to my question let me state that i plan on mostly using this lens for
near/far focus....i.e. little flowers in the fg and big cliffs in the bg...

this maybe a simple thing and im not understanding but i hope for the help...does one use the t/s lens only in landscape orientation?

No, the mod puts the shift and tilt on the same axis. You can rotate that axis so you can have both functions no matter the orientation of the camera to the lens. So, portrait mode is definitely available.

AaronNelson wrote:

ive read about marc muench modding his lens to tilt on the same access so he can do near/far, but that means in a landscape orientaion right?

No, see above

AaronNelson wrote:

if i use it in a portrait orientation wouldnt i be able to do the same type of near/far focus?

Yes, see above

AaronNelson wrote:

im not sure if i should get my lens modified like marc did....

When I get this lens - shortly - I will be doing the mod my self. there's lots of info about this on-line. A simple screwdriver will get the job done.

AaronNelson wrote:

just thinking about how this lens works is like trying to pat the top of my head while rubbing my belly and blowing a bubble with bubblegum....
im getting all confused

DavidTO

It's a very simple mod. The biggest concerns are stripping the screws and getting dust in the lens. Other than that, it's very simple.

Tango

thank you for that gentlmen, i appreciate the expo!!

scott, i see, very helpful! i was so very confused!
im starting to see light at the end of the tunnel...i think...


k, dust, now theres an issue....wish me luck