Camera Color Spaces / Direct Printing

Buster

Hi folks...

Here's my problem...

I have a Nikon D70 and a Nikon D2h. I've found that uncorrected jpg files shot with either of the cameras using Adobe 98 as a color space, when printed at Sam's Club (and at least one other lab) on a Fuji Frontier printer when the printer applies auto color correction, the photos come out with way too much cyan...way out of control...absolutely hideous...total unusable! If the lab tech does not apply color correction, then the photos come out just Ok, but of course need color correction. SRGB color spaces are not a problem. The really odd part of this is that my friends with Canon DSLRs don't have this problem. Their prints always come out fine...often just shooting and printing without doing any post processing, not matter what color space used. I know...there are three possible solutions...1) switch to Canon or 2) don't use Adobe 98 or 3) don't let the printer color correct photos. It just really bothers me that when I was trying to troubleshoot this problem, all I got was the "deer in the headlights" look from the lab technicians. There are lots of Fuji labs out there and lots of Nikon cameras. I can't be the only one having this problem. Has anyone else experienced similar printing problems?

Andy

Buster wrote:

Hi folks...

Here's my problem...

I have a Nikon D70 and a Nikon D2h. I've found that uncorrected jpg files shot with either of the cameras using Adobe 98 as a color space, when printed at Sam's Club (and at least one other lab) on a Fuji Frontier printer when the printer applies auto color correction, the photos come out with way too much cyan...way out of control...absolutely hideous...total unusable! If the lab tech does not apply color correction, then the photos come out just Ok, but of course need color correction. SRGB color spaces are not a problem. The really odd part of this is that my friends with Canon DSLRs don't have this problem. Their prints always come out fine...often just shooting and printing without doing any post processing, not matter what color space used. I know...there are three possible solutions...1) switch to Canon or 2) don't use Adobe 98 or 3) don't let the printer color correct photos. It just really bothers me that when I was trying to troubleshoot this problem, all I got was the "deer in the headlights" look from the lab technicians. There are lots of Fuji labs out there and lots of Nikon cameras. I can't be the only one having this problem. Has anyone else experienced similar printing problems?

Nikon aRGB is not always the same as aRGB. Sometimes it's Nikon RGB - which, is their version of it - frustrating, we know! I'd say, go with sRGB and have one less thing in life to worry about.

We have some good help listed here, which may be of use to you:

http://www.smugmug.com/help/srgb-versus-adobe-rgb-1998

I hope this helps!

Buster

Andy wrote:

Nikon aRGB is not always the same as aRGB. Sometimes it's Nikon RGB - which, is their version of it - frustrating, we know! I'd say, go with sRGB and have one less thing in life to worry about.

We have some good help listed here, which may be of use to you:

http://www.smugmug.com/help/srgb-versus-adobe-rgb-1998

I hope this helps!

Hmmmm....so it's like "Dr., it hurts when I bend my knee like this:" and the doctor replies, "Well, don't bend your knee like that." Apparently, I'm the only one on the planet that has this problem. I did call Nikon about this, and was sending mail back and forth with the technician, but after just a few messages my mail messages got stopped by Spam Cop or something.

I know..."just suck it up."

Thanks Andy.

jfriend

Someone with a similar problem - conclusion: gives Sam's Club sRGB files

Buster wrote:

Hi folks...

Here's my problem...

I have a Nikon D70 and a Nikon D2h. I've found that uncorrected jpg files shot with either of the cameras using Adobe 98 as a color space, when printed at Sam's Club (and at least one other lab) on a Fuji Frontier printer when the printer applies auto color correction, the photos come out with way too much cyan...way out of control...absolutely hideous...total unusable! If the lab tech does not apply color correction, then the photos come out just Ok, but of course need color correction. SRGB color spaces are not a problem. The really odd part of this is that my friends with Canon DSLRs don't have this problem. Their prints always come out fine...often just shooting and printing without doing any post processing, not matter what color space used. I know...there are three possible solutions...1) switch to Canon or 2) don't use Adobe 98 or 3) don't let the printer color correct photos. It just really bothers me that when I was trying to troubleshoot this problem, all I got was the "deer in the headlights" look from the lab technicians. There are lots of Fuji labs out there and lots of Nikon cameras. I can't be the only one having this problem. Has anyone else experienced similar printing problems?

After a little Googling, I found this link that describes a somewhat similar situation of too much cyan when printing aRGB files at Sam's club. Their conclusion was that Sam's printing process does not expect or support AdobeRGB so if you want accurate color, you have to convert to sRGB before printing there. It doesn't say anything about color correction being on or off, but I can only imagine that programmatically trying to do color correction on a file assumed to be in a different color space than it actually is could easily make the image worse.

Unless you explicitly know that your printer supports aRGB originals and you know that it generates predictable results from your aRGB tagged originals, you are always safer delivering sRGB originals to the printer since that will always generate predictable results since that's the typical "consumer" image file and thus has to work or the printer wouldn't be in business.

Andy

jfriend wrote:

After a little Googling

Hi John,

SmugMug Help (linked above) wrote:

Photographic paper and chemicals do not allow you to use all the colors of Adobe 98. For that reason, the sRGB tide has swept North American printers. The top labs, such as whcc, MPIX, EZ Prints (our lab), Shutterfly (whom we used to use), Kodak, Fujifilm, Photobox, Costco, Snapfish, Wolfe's, etc., all expect your file to be in sRGB and if it isn't, your prints will look washed out.

jfriend

I was making a different point

Andy wrote:

Photographic paper and chemicals do not allow you to use all the colors of Adobe 98. For that reason, the sRGB tide has swept North American printers. The top labs, such as whcc, MPIX, EZ Prints (our lab), Shutterfly (whom we used to use), Kodak, Fujifilm, Photobox, Costco, Snapfish, Wolfe's, etc., all expect your file to be in sRGB and if it isn't, your prints will look washed out.

Yeah, I know that AdobeRGB allows some colors that aren't printable on some printers. sRGB allows some colors that aren't printable too. That's why I'm trying to learn how to better use Photoshop Soft Proofing, even on sRGB files so you can detect these situations before printing.

The operative question I was researching in this case is not whether the entire colorspace is supported by the printer. The operative question is whether a given printer will allow, detect and handle an aRGB original by automatically converting it to something they can print. That's what some combination of Photoshop and your printer dirver does when you try print it at home. I was trying to research whether Sam's Club does an appropriate conversion on aRGB originals or not. If you take that one article as gospel, it appears that they do not and that would explain the peculiar results Buster got.

In either case, the recommendation is the same. If you want predictable printed results, give your printer a file that is properly converted to sRGB. There could be a few printers that accept aRGB files and "do the right thing" with them, but unless you have a close enough relationship with your printer to know that for a fact, you are rolling the dice if you give them aRGB files.

flyingdutchie

jfriend wrote:

Yeah, I know that AdobeRGB allows some colors that aren't printable on some printers. sRGB allows some colors that aren't printable too. That's why I'm trying to learn how to better use Photoshop Soft Proofing, even on sRGB files so you can detect these situations before printing.

The operative question I was researching in this case is not whether the entire colorspace is supported by the printer. The operative question is whether a given printer will allow, detect and handle an aRGB original by automatically converting it to something they can print. That's what some combination of Photoshop and your printer dirver does when you try print it at home. I was trying to research whether Sam's Club does an appropriate conversion on aRGB originals or not. If you take that one article as gospel, it appears that they do not and that would explain the peculiar results Buster got.

In either case, the recommendation is the same. If you want predictable printed results, give your printer a file that is properly converted to sRGB. There could be a few printers that accept aRGB files and "do the right thing" with them, but unless you have a close enough relationship with your printer to know that for a fact, you are rolling the dice if you give them aRGB files.

I have had similar experiences.

Use AdobeRGB (or a even wider gamut color space) only if your printer supports it. Most inkjet printers do. If you have your own inkjet and it supports AdobeRGB (likely), use it... nice wide gamut

But most online print-services and print-services from Walmart, CostCo, CVS, etc. do not support it and either require your JPEG/TIFF to be in sRGB or assume a sRGB color space (regardless which profile is embedded in your pic).

And for web-browsing, you should use sRGB as well.