About to Jump Ship on Canon- Change my Mind

JusticeiroJusticeiro E clunibus tractumPosts: 1,167Registered Users Major grins
edited September 7, 2018 in Cameras

Alright, so I have been a canon shooter since they came out with the 20D, which finally got me to abandon my old Praktica. I have also used the 30D (borrowed one during the Glacier NP shootout, dropped it, and then bought it) and switched up to the full frame 5d Mk II, which is what I currently shoot.

The lenses I mainly use on the Canon are the 24-70 2.8 L mk i, the 70-200 L, also mk i, and the 35-135 (I know, it is old, but damn I love that lens). I also have the 50 1.8, the 100-400 L (All my L glass is first generation), a bunch of old M42 lenses which I can't really use on the 5dmkii, an some Pentacon MF lenses, blah blah blah.

I shoot a little bit of everything, but what I am best at is documentary style travel pictures.

So I havn't been shooting much because I have had two kids, and dragging the Canon bag around with me, as well as diapers, food, teddy bears, extra clothes, and all that stuff is pretty much untenable- those of you with kids know the drill. I had been shooting the kids with (surprise) my iPhone, but this was unsatisfying, so I picked up an old Fuji X-E1 with the 18-55 XF on ebay.

There's a lot to love about this camera. It's super light, and the interface is great for me (reminds me very much of using my M42 mount lenses of my Praktica).

Image quality is decent, but you can see its 16MP vs 20 for the 5D MkII, and the Autofocus is terrible- the cold start up time is also crap. I'm not doing super artsy stuff (mainly using it is the "camera in my pocket") but I have some concerns about getting a shallow DOF if I go back to a crop sensor.

The new Fujis have apparently solved most of these issues.

The long and short of it is, that I can probably sell my Canon gear, upgrade to an XT-3, and replace all the effective focal lengths (I already have the 18-55, which is more or less a 24-70) for a grand total differential cost of about 2000 euros, which is less than the new Canon mirrorless, and about the same price as the 5Ds (which doesn't have great ISO range, IIRC).

On the plus side:

The bag would be a lot lighter
Fujis are freaking beautifully designed
I am annoyed with Canon

So here are my concerns.

Is the DOF an issue?
Is 24 MP noticeably lower quality than 30MP?
Is replacing Mark i L glass with Fuji glass a step down?
Is there something I am not thinking of?

Right now I am seriously considering abandoning Canon.

Do you think this is a good idea, or a terrible one, and why?

BTW, I rarely to never shoot video.

Cave ab homine unius libri

Comments

  • denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Major grins North Andover, MAPosts: 12,056Super Moderators moderator
    edited September 7, 2018

    I jumped ship a few years back, starting with a Fuji X-T1 and upgrading the the X-T2 last year. I'm very happy with the Fuji system.

    I kept my 7D and Canon lenses for quite a while, finally selling them before I upgraded to the X-T2. I hadn't touched either camera or lenses in almost 2 years when I realized I wasn't going to switch back.

    While they aren't full reviews, here are links to a couple of blog posts I wrote about my switch to Fuji.

    Fuji X-T1: https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2015/08/first-impressions-fuji-x-t1.html
    Fuji X-T2: https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2017/12/upgrade-fuji-x-t2.html
    Fuji 80mm macro: https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2017/12/first-impressions-fuji-xf-80mm-macro.html

    If you want to see photos feel free to jump to my site and look around.

    Ask away if you have questions that I might be able to answer.

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Still learnin'still lovin Posts: 20,375Super Moderators moderator

    In Fuji, the X-T2 is the only version that interested me (although the X-T3 looks to be similar but better yet). Lenses for the Fuji crop system are very good from each cost tier, and the top tier lenses are expensive, but immensely satisfying.

    The only significant issue with Fuji crop comes with the high-ISO range, which is not too unusual. The reviews of the new X-T3 indicate that this latest model is perhaps best of all in low light. I recommend waiting for some formal testing and reviews before any purchase.

    ==================================================================================================

    The Sony crop mirrorless, the a6500 currently, is also a very nice body, and the Sony and Zeiss lenses for that camera are all very good, with the top tier tending to be excellent. I own the a6000 and it has some issues which are mostly solved in the a6500. I do think that the Sony crop cameras handle ISO 3200 and above a bit better than Fuji, but not majorly better.

    In my Sony a6000 "Travel kit":

    Sony E PZ 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 OSS E-mount (Power Zoom)
    Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS E-mount Zoom
    The above are the "kit" zooms typical to use with the a6000 body. They are nice quality, but pretty slow apertures, and the 16-50mm really requires correction for both curvilinear distortion and chroma distortion for best image quality. Those two zooms, plus a close-focus diopter and a simple flash make up a basic kit and it's very light together. It all fits in a medium sized "Holster".

    For something more complete, I add:
    (I can vouch for the following lenses to be excellent performers)

    Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS E-mount Prime
    Excellent image quality, fairly affordable, good in low-light, no appreciable distortions and pretty lightweight. A short telephoto on the a6000, so a good choice for head and head-and-shoulder portraits. Optical stabilization extends low-light freehand use.

    Samyang 12mm f/2.0 NCS CS E-mount prime
    Manual focus and manual aperture, this lens is a great super-wide landscape lens, but can also do architectural and interior real estate photography. Also good for envoronmental portaiture and wide field astronomical photography. A tripod is generally indicated, since you generally compose, manually focus, set the final aperture and then take the exposure.

    Sigma 19mm f/2.8 DN Lens for Sony E-mount prime
    A wide-angle lens; autofocus and auto-aperture. One of the Sigma "Art" series lenses, image quality is very nice and the f2.8 is reasonably fast.

    Olympus TCON-17C 1.7x Teleconverter Accessory Lens
    Added to the 55-210mm kit tele-zoom, this provides tremendous reach without affecting aperture. I don't have an acceptable support for this yet, so my usage is pretty limited. Typical uses (when I get a suitable support system) are wildlife and compressive perspective landscapes. Some folks have even done BIF with this combination.

    Another SmugMugger, "kgravett", has some image samples with this combination:
    http://kgravett.smugmug.com/Other/Nex-6-w-Sony-55-210mm-w/

    All of the above, the basic travel kit plus the additional lenses and teleconverter, flash, plus a spare NEX 5N and 18-55mm OSS lens, all fit into a smaller "sling" style backpack and it weighs around 9 lbs total. Using a belt strap puts the weight on your hips and makes a pretty easy carry, but just undo the belt strap and swing the bag around for access in the field.

    =========================================================================================

    A Full-Frame body will offer better performance in indoor available light, and mirrorless is no different. The new Canon EOS "R" series mirrorless is FF, and appears to have the best "potential" lens lineup at initial offering that I have seen. Time will tell about system performance and reliability, but your existing lenses should work using a simple adapter. Low light performance for autofocus speed and accuracy appears to be good and potentially excellent. (I'm not reading about any of the testers having serious problems about low-light indoor autofocus. In fact, one reviewer mentioned the available light in the testing arena Canon provided as the lowest lighting of any such event (he was complaining), but the camera generally did quite well despite the conditions.)

    The latest Sony FF mirrorless also have a good autofocus record that has seen constant improvement over the years. My greatest complaint about earlier Sony mirrorless was the user interface, but that appears to have improved lately. Pretty sure that if you're chasing children indoors or in sports that the a9 is the best recommendation, but that's a flagship body with a pretty high cost. Equipped with f2.8 zooms the system would be awfully expensive, but that's true of any top-tier/flagship system.

    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • kdogkdog artistically challenged San Jose, CAPosts: 11,317Administrators moderator

    Why are you annoyed with Canon? Their latest lenses and bodies are terrific.

    You did mention weight, and switching to a mirrorless crop-body and lenses can get you an incredibly small and lightweight kit that will serve you well. As I've mentioned in other threads, I recently put together a lightweight kit for backpacking based on the Sony A6500 with a variety of lenses including the ZEISS Touit 32mm f/1.8 which is about 50mm on a full frame. Sad to say even with a fast lens like that, you get nowhere near the shallow DOF that you get with a FF. But for most other things is does a great job. I did look at the Fuji system as well, but passed on it due to the larger physical size/weight, even though I thought the user interface was better than the Sony. I'm not selling my Canon stuff though. It's still my go-to set up if size/weight isn't a factor.

    This is a shot from a recent backpacking trip taken with the Sony A6500 + Rokinon (Samyang) 12mm f/2 lens @f/2, ISO 5000.

  • Brett1000Brett1000 Major grins https://www.flickr.com/photos/photoscw/Posts: 813Registered Users Major grins

    @Justiceiro said:
    Alright, so I have been a canon shooter since they came out with the 20D, which finally got me to abandon my old Praktica. I have also used the 30D (borrowed one during the Glacier NP shootout, dropped it, and then bought it) and switched up to the full frame 5d Mk II, which is what I currently shoot.

    The lenses I mainly use on the Canon are the 24-70 2.8 L mk i, the 70-200 L, also mk i, and the 35-135 (I know, it is old, but damn I love that lens). I also have the 50 1.8, the 100-400 L (All my L glass is first generation), a bunch of old M42 lenses which I can't really use on the 5dmkii, an some Pentacon MF lenses, blah blah blah.

    I shoot a little bit of everything, but what I am best at is documentary style travel pictures.

    So I havn't been shooting much because I have had two kids, and dragging the Canon bag around with me, as well as diapers, food, teddy bears, extra clothes, and all that stuff is pretty much untenable- those of you with kids know the drill. I had been shooting the kids with (surprise) my iPhone, but this was unsatisfying, so I picked up an old Fuji X-E1 with the 18-55 XF on ebay.

    There's a lot to love about this camera. It's super light, and the interface is great for me (reminds me very much of using my M42 mount lenses of my Praktica).

    Image quality is decent, but you can see its 16MP vs 20 for the 5D MkII, and the Autofocus is terrible- the cold start up time is also crap. I'm not doing super artsy stuff (mainly using it is the "camera in my pocket") but I have some concerns about getting a shallow DOF if I go back to a crop sensor.

    The new Fujis have apparently solved most of these issues.

    The long and short of it is, that I can probably sell my Canon gear, upgrade to an XT-3, and replace all the effective focal lengths (I already have the 18-55, which is more or less a 24-70) for a grand total differential cost of about 2000 euros, which is less than the new Canon mirrorless, and about the same price as the 5Ds (which doesn't have great ISO range, IIRC).

    On the plus side:

    The bag would be a lot lighter
    Fujis are freaking beautifully designed
    I am annoyed with Canon

    So here are my concerns.

    Is the DOF an issue?
    Is 24 MP noticeably lower quality than 30MP?
    Is replacing Mark i L glass with Fuji glass a step down?
    Is there something I am not thinking of?

    Right now I am seriously considering abandoning Canon.

    Do you think this is a good idea, or a terrible one, and why?

    BTW, I rarely to never shoot video.

    try them out at a store like Best Buy. if you don't want full frame and need a smaller size then Fuji mirrorless could be a good fit
    I like the older Canon M5 mirrorless, probably because it can easily use DSLR lens

    www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

  • JusticeiroJusticeiro E clunibus tractum Posts: 1,167Registered Users Major grins

    @denisegoldberg said:
    I jumped ship a few years back, starting with a Fuji X-T1 and upgrading the the X-T2 last year. I'm very happy with the Fuji system.

    I kept my 7D and Canon lenses for quite a while, finally selling them before I upgraded to the X-T2. I hadn't touched either camera or lenses in almost 2 years when I realized I wasn't going to switch back.

    While they aren't full reviews, here are links to a couple of blog posts I wrote about my switch to Fuji.

    Fuji X-T1: https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2015/08/first-impressions-fuji-x-t1.html
    Fuji X-T2: https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2017/12/upgrade-fuji-x-t2.html
    Fuji 80mm macro: https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2017/12/first-impressions-fuji-xf-80mm-macro.html

    If you want to see photos feel free to jump to my site and look around.

    Ask away if you have questions that I might be able to answer.

    Thanks Denise,

    What was your experience with isolating subjects using a shallow depth of field? Particularly in relation to lenses like the 24-70 2.8 or 50 1.8 for Canon? I usually do landscapes, but on occasion I do want that shallow DOF, and this is what is really putting me off.

    Ziggy- The Sony produces some excellent images, no doubt about it. If I was to go sony, however, I think I'd go full frame. It's not really the crop system so much that appeals to me (although lighter lenses are awesome), but the user interface that I really like about Fuji. Sony bodies don't seem to fit well in my hand, also. I don't know why.

    kdog- I guess I like the 5DmkIV fine, I just don't see it as $3500 better than the mkII. I'd pay that money if I could get the 5Ds resolution and the 5DmkIV ISO performance, but the R version isn't that. And they keep pushing back the 5Ds mk ii. Who knows if it will ever come out.

    In the meantime the X-T3 has better resolution and ISO range than the 5D mark ii, despite the fact that it is cropped. And I expect it won't be long before we see a fuji body with 40 or 50 MP.

    Cave ab homine unius libri
  • denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Major grins North Andover, MAPosts: 12,056Super Moderators moderator
    edited September 9, 2018

    @Justiceiro said:
    Thanks Denise,

    What was your experience with isolating subjects using a shallow depth of field? Particularly in relation to lenses like the 24-70 2.8 or 50 1.8 for Canon? I usually do landscapes, but on occasion I do want that shallow DOF, and this is what is really putting me off.

    I shoot mostly landscapes and macro. The two lenses I use for landscape are the Fuji XF10-24 F4 and the Fuji XF18-135 F3.5-F5.6. I can still get a fairly shallow DOF with these lenses - but I also have the Fuji macro XF80 F2.8 which is awesome!

    Fuji does have lenses at F2.8 for landscape, both a 16-55 and a 50-140. I bought my first Fuji camera with the 18-135 lens and I have been happy enough with that so I haven't switched.

    I just checked the Fuji lens roadmap and there is a 56 1.2.

    Here's a link to the X Mount Lens Roadmap - http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xf_lens/roadmap/.

    If I were buying today I would likely wait for X-T3 availability; the B&H website is showing it with expected availability on September 20th.

  • MolsondogMolsondog Fetch! Posts: 159Registered Users Major grins

    I just unloaded all my Nikon and Olympus equipment and bought a Fuji XT2. Yeah, I know the XT3 looks like a winner but until a few weeks ago the XT2 was the cat's pajamas. Instead of a heavy backpack of D800 and lenses I now sport one sweet 16-55 f2.8. The Oly OMD EM5II went away as well. Too fiddly. Plus I dropped it and screwed up the lens. In any case, I'm a happy camper and the discount on the XT2 was very nice indeed.

  • MolsondogMolsondog Fetch! Posts: 159Registered Users Major grins

    Well...The Fuji is no longer in the bag. After a few shoots in lower light than I'd like the higher ISO noise was unacceptable. That plus the lack of IBIS sent it packing. FUN camera for sure, but not the best for my needs. A Sony A7iii has taken its place and is performing marvelously. Yes, the Sony menu system can be daunting but a few hours of digging deep into the menu and setting up presets and accessibility to key attributes makes it very user friendly. Sorry Fuji. I really wanted to like you. But alas...

  • sapphire73sapphire73 Major grins PennsylvaniaPosts: 1,676Registered Users Major grins
    edited October 4, 2018

    I haven't jumped ship from Canon, but use my Fuji camera more often than not. I kept the Canon partly because I sometimes want to carry two camera bodies (safari, wildlife in Yellowstone, etc.) and partly because I let my husband use the Canon 70D with his 100-400 mm lens for bird photography. But I am really enjoying the Fuji X-T2 and I would love to add the Fuji X-T3 sometime.

    I shoot RAW and jpg, but almost always process the Canon RAW files. With the Fuji, I find that I am often able to use the jpg files with little editing. But I still shoot both and like being able to process the RAW files for my favorite images.

    The Canon set up (70D and various lenses) can be a little heavy for me, but I like the Canon menu and the touch screen LCD. The Fuji is more compact but the sturdy build of the XT-2 and various lenses still gives it some heft. The Fuji menu frustrates me at times, since it often seems counterintuitive - at least to a long time Canon shooter. And I miss the touchscreen LCD, but see that the X-T3 will have it.

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