Missing metadata from MetaImage

deckedadeckeda Big grinsRegistered Users Posts: 18 Big grins

I've successfully edited some images with MetaImage (on Mac) to include or alter some metadata prior to upload. Some of the info shows here, the rest is being ignored.

So I'm lookin' to place me some blame :) Here's the query I have over at NeededApps: https://forum.neededapps.com/t/smugmug-com-metadata/65

"I’ve added the following metadata for some TIFF files. These fields were initially either empty or incorrect because they are scanned film negatives.

EXIF:
Camera Make
Camera Model Name
Date/Time Original
ISO
Focal Length
Lens Make
Lens Model
(some various GPS info)

IPTC:
Keywords

… Smugmug is picking up only the values for Date/Time Original (shown as Date Taken), ISO, Focal Length, Lens Model. Everything else is missing, but I know Smugmug can show far more metadata.

If I bring the images back into MetaImage to verify my changes the fields look fine. My edits are there."

Comments

  • leftquarkleftquark SmugMug Product Team Administrators, Vanilla Admin, SmugMug Product Team Posts: 3,724 SmugMug Employee

    SmugMug does typically pull out the camera make, model, etc out of the file for inclusion in the "Photo Info". Assuming MetalImage puts the information in the correct metdata format, we should be able to pull them out. Do you have a few example links you can share with us?

    SmugMug Director of Product / dGrin Afficionado
    aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
    Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
    My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
  • deckedadeckeda Big grins Registered Users Posts: 18 Big grins

    Hi,

    I also have two other galleries with images from a digital camera and of course those show full device data.

    Yeah I'm trying to see what I may look at within MetaImage since that's the variable here. Perhaps if you see something amiss, you can provide me with something I can give back to the developer ... or vice versa!

    I'll give you a link to a public gallery I'm making. https://daviddeckert.smugmug.com/Family-and-Friends/2019/March/OFallon/

    Currently there's one photo + a screen shot showing what macOS' Finder sees. I realize that the Finder isn't the best arbiter of "what's right" but I wanted to include it here so that you can know something else can pick up at least some of the fields I'm referring to.

    Incidentally, if you can recommend an app or a service that verifies correct EXIF and IPTC fields, that would be great too. Thanks.

  • leftquarkleftquark SmugMug Product Team Administrators, Vanilla Admin, SmugMug Product Team Posts: 3,724 SmugMug Employee

    It looks like SmugMug is pulling in most of the metadata that's in there (like focal length, ISO, lens). Is it mostly the Camera Make that's missing (should be "AE-1 Program")?

    SmugMug Director of Product / dGrin Afficionado
    aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
    Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
    My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
  • deckedadeckeda Big grins Registered Users Posts: 18 Big grins

    No, it's more than just the brand of the camera and the camera model name.

    As originally noted missing:
    Camera Make (Canon)
    Camera Model Name (AE-1 Program)
    Lens Make (Canon)
    GPS coordinates (normally translates into city, state etc ... I could use specific city or state fields within IPTC instead but I don't know if Smugmug picks that up, either.
    Keywords

    I'd be totally OK with including the manufacturer within the Lens Model field as a workaround for the brand name there.

    But we're spinning our wheels here. The bigger issue is that unless I stumble onto which fields Smugmug may or may not pick up, it would be helpful for a Smugmug engineer to step forward with a list of which EXIF or IPTC or XMP or ICC fields are respected and displayed on the site. Can this be done?

    I searched for "metadata" here but the info is remarkably sparse, as if Smugmug expects users to either only edit images within Smugmug's limited fields, or just accept whatever comes in comes in. I can't be the only film shooter here, uploading digital images that originate from a scanner, or from an image editor and not from a camera.

    Thanks!

  • leftquarkleftquark SmugMug Product Team Administrators, Vanilla Admin, SmugMug Product Team Posts: 3,724 SmugMug Employee

    We pull data from a wide range of metadata fields including IPTC, XMP and EXIF. We use a tool called "ExifTool" to grab the metadata, which is the industry leader in grabbing metadata out of the photo. You can always play with their mac or windows version to see if the metadata is being properly embedded in the photo (https://exiftool.org/). You might also be able to use it to write updates to the photos. My hunch, though, is that MetaImage is embedding the data in some format that is confusing ExifTool. If it's an ExifTool issue, a bug report can also be submitted to ExifTool and they're always really responsive.

    SmugMug Director of Product / dGrin Afficionado
    aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
    Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
    My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
  • deckedadeckeda Big grins Registered Users Posts: 18 Big grins

    Thanks. I did some digging on this last night. I took another sample image and loaded it up with a bunch of metadata, using text or other relevant values I could track back to what and where I entered it in MetaImage. Most of it "came over" just fine to SmugMug, including most of the fields mentioned above.

    Some strangeness remains but it might be due to some fields in my editor taking precedence over others when there are competing fields entered. This is important, because many situations will display values for "either" field. For example, it seems SmugMug will show in its "Camera" field values entered in either EXIF:Make or EXIF:Model (and in both cases you have to combine the brand name and model name into the same field, because SmugMug won't display them separately.)

    You (me, the user) needs to know which fields to use, and what they're called in the 3rd party editor, because SmugMug ignores some of them, and because there's some overlap between EXIF, IPTC, XMP sets._ In other words, even if I used ExifTool to add metadata, I'd still need to know which fields to populate for SmugMug to see it._

    For some closure on this, I may post a link later to a Google Docs spreadsheet I'm building that might help others.

    Yeah ExifTool is a good tool. If SmugMug ever decides to publish which fields it pays attention to and displays on a picture page from it, please let us know.

  • deckedadeckeda Big grins Registered Users Posts: 18 Big grins

    (I'll have soon deleted or edited the same image in the link above.)

    Here's a new sample image, with some various EXIF/IPTC/XMP field names entered as values (where possible). Other values shown (i.e. numerical values, location city and so on) are example values.

    https://daviddeckert.smugmug.com/Social-media/Public-test-images/n-HNTFk2/Test-images/i-MT5Sn8J/A

    Notes:
    For camera name info, SmugMug will pick up both EXIF:Make or EXIF:Model fields (whatever that may be called in your editor ). It may or may not display either however, but you can combine brand and model into just one of the fields and SmugMug will show it as expected.

    For SmugMug to display both lens make and model use either the EXIF:LensModel or the XMP:Lens fields (whatever that may be called in your editor ) and combine brand name and model into just that one field. SmugMug will pick up either field, but not both. There are additional EXIF lens fields but they're ignored by SmugMug. (This has nothing to do with the aperture used.)

    SmugMug seems to include "equivalent 35mm focal length" (in parentheses) for every lens? If the file comes from a digital camera, SmugMug somehow knows what its so-called "crop-factor" is, if it has one. But if this EXIF:FocalLengthin35mmFocalLength field is left empty in your editor, SmugMug will still include the "equivalent 35mm focal length" (same value) which is either a clue you used a full frame camera (who cares?), or SmugMug's assumption is that every file uploaded came from a crop-image camera. Whatever.

    For aperture values, use either EXIF:FNumber or EXIF:ApertureValue
    For time values, use either EXIF:ShutterSpeedValue or EXIF:ExposureTime

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iO_JMWLup5o_C6RCC9palvC25f-1WGUUwFZbGpXIMEs/edit?usp=sharing

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