Hockey is hard

DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
edited February 5, 2006 in Sports
I had a chance to give the D2H and 70-200/2.8 their first sporting workout. Man is that camera fast! It was nice culling through the photos and eliminating based on bad lighting or composition rather than not in focus. I did my best to channel the great Winger, but the results were mediocre at best. The shots were noisy, and I knew WB and ice color in general would be a problem. For a first go, it went alright and I learned some good things about my new gear.

Keep 'em small to medium, and they look good. :lol3

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Erik
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

Comments

  • goodcrnagoodcrna Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited January 30, 2006
    DoctorIt wrote:
    I had a chance to give the D2H and 70-200/2.8 their first sporting workout. Man is that camera fast! It was nice culling through the photos and eliminating based on bad lighting or composition rather than not in focus. I did my best to channel the great Winger, but the results were mediocre at best. The shots were noisy, and I knew WB and ice color in general would be a problem. For a first go, it went alright and I learned some good things about my new gear.

    Keep 'em small to medium, and they look good. lol3.gif

    Erik,
    VERY Sharp. thumb.gif Great colors. I too shot hockey and I seem to get some right on and others not so. The lighting seems to be bright directly under the lighting (Duh!!) and thus I get some pictures that are underexposed.!!!!?

    Are you using manual or shutter priority to shoot? Yours seems brighter, more crisp. Practice practice practice....!

    here are a couple of my hockey shots....
    Greg

    54231657-M.jpg




    54231530-M.jpg


    53592260-M.jpg

    All three taken with flash.

    Erik, are you using a custom white balance? I know I need a lot of tweaking, but it sure is fun learning....headscratch.gif
    Greg
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 31, 2006
    Well Greg, I was hoping for some help with mine from some better, but if you insist lol3.gif

    I experimented a bit - shot shutter at 1/250 (I've read this is optimal for mediocre rink lighting balanced with capturing motion) and upped the ISO until I got a decent exposure. Had to go up to ISO 800 until f/2.8 @ 1/250 was enough to get it right. This seemed to be going ok, but I too noticed the light wasn't perfectly consistent across the rink, so I switched to aperture f/2.8 and stayed at ISO 800. This gave me a range of 1/200 to 1/320. Seemed to work out a bit better.

    WB - I was shooting all RAW, so rather than get crazy with a custom WB, I just set it to flourescent light, so I'd at least have the same setting on all the photos to batch process later based on one middle of the road shot. When it was said and done, I got the best results with 3750 to 3800 K with all shots - Flourescent was 3950 K, so pretty close actually.

    I wouldn't call my shots all that sharp, but thanks! For a first go, i guess it was OK.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 31, 2006
    goodcrna wrote:
    All three taken with flash.
    Really!?!

    Most of your shots look like they were done through the rink glass (I shot up on the stands, down onto the rink, to avoid this). So please tell me, how on earth did you not light up all the scratches in the glass? Obviously the flash will 99% bounce off the glass before ever reaching the players. Not only will you not help your lighting of the players, but you'll cause all sorts of weird reflections from the less than perfect glass.

    Even without glass in the way, I doubt a single onboard flash could reach that far. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
    headscratch.gif
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • goodcrnagoodcrna Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    DoctorIt wrote:
    Really!?!

    Most of your shots look like they were done through the rink glass (I shot up on the stands, down onto the rink, to avoid this). So please tell me, how on earth did you not light up all the scratches in the glass? Obviously the flash will 99% bounce off the glass before ever reaching the players. Not only will you not help your lighting of the players, but you'll cause all sorts of weird reflections from the less than perfect glass.

    Even without glass in the way, I doubt a single onboard flash could reach that far. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
    headscratch.gif

    Erik,I was in the penalty box!. No glass in front of me. Used my 70-200mm f/2.8 IS Canon lens. I wasn't attempting to light up the whole area, just attempting to get more consistant lighting. I was experimenting with the flash (580ex). I think I'll try aperature priority next time and set it for 2.8 and allow the camera to adjust for the inconsistant lighting. I was also using ISO 800. Someday I'll get this right and my boys will be out of hockey!!!

    I'm still using jpg for my pictures. I haven't gone the RAW route yet. Seems like a lot of extra work to me. I shoot around 500-700 pictures per game.

    As for WB I've heard of people using custom WB for hockey pictures. Anyone have recommendations on how to best do this? I've read somewhere about using a coffee filter!!!???... Couldn't I just take a picture of a white jersey and then use that for my custom WB??
    Thanks
    Greg
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 31, 2006
    Shoot RAW. Quality does not equal quantity. 700 images, do you ever take your finger off the shutter?!? Even with my 8 fps gun I didn't take half that many! Give it a try, seriously. You'll be able to make your images look much more consistent - if for nothing other than WB. And I'd bet all the images you posted here would look better at least half a stop more exposed.

    And yes, Winger told me a few times that custom WB off the white jersey is the way to go on ice.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    Doc, nice job. Hockey is hard!
    Andy

    Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited February 1, 2006
    DoctorIt wrote:
    Even without glass in the way, I doubt a single onboard flash could reach that far. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
    headscratch.gif
    I have been surprised with how far flash will reach when shooting karts and motocross, both daytime and nightime. It would not surprise me if a good onboard flash (Canon 580EX or equivalent) could reach and do good across the short dimension of an ice rink.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • Steve CaviglianoSteve Cavigliano Super Moderators Posts: 3,599 moderator
    edited February 1, 2006
    I think you did well too Doc thumb.gifthumb.gif

    and no yellow ice rolleyes1.gif


    Steve
    SmugMug Support Hero
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited February 1, 2006
    Steve Cavigliano wrote:
    I think you did well too Doc thumb.gifthumb.gif

    and no yellow ice rolleyes1.gif


    Steve
    Thanks Steve! At least, no yellow ice that I saw. :D
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • wingerwinger Registered Users Posts: 694 Major grins
    edited February 1, 2006
    Steve Cavigliano wrote:
    I think you did well too Doc thumb.gifthumb.gif

    and no yellow ice rolleyes1.gif


    Steve

    yeah yeah yellow ice...........
    once I get a chance to breath I SWEAR I am going to learn how to fix that.
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited February 1, 2006
    winger wrote:
    yeah yeah yellow ice...........
    once I get a chance to breath I SWEAR I am going to learn how to fix that.
    embrace the RAW!!!
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • wingerwinger Registered Users Posts: 694 Major grins
    edited February 1, 2006
    DoctorIt wrote:
    embrace the RAW!!!

    you would need to come show me how to process it.

    You have that kind of time.

    or do i have that kind of time.

    guess what I am doing on Friday, flying to San Diego, guess what I am doing Friday night, flying back....holy cow!
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 1, 2006
    winger wrote:
    yeah yeah yellow ice...........
    once I get a chance to breath I SWEAR I am going to learn how to fix that.

    deal.gif I've been waiting for you, dear....
    Andy

    Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited February 2, 2006
    winger wrote:
    you would need to come show me how to process it.

    You have that kind of time.

    or do i have that kind of time.

    guess what I am doing on Friday, flying to San Diego, guess what I am doing Friday night, flying back....holy cow!
    you are insane. but what else is new?
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • wingerwinger Registered Users Posts: 694 Major grins
    edited February 2, 2006
    Andy wrote:
    deal.gif I've been waiting for you, dear....

    I know you are totally on my "to do list" mwink.gif
  • wingerwinger Registered Users Posts: 694 Major grins
    edited February 2, 2006
    DoctorIt wrote:
    you are insane. but what else is new?

    shhhhh dont tell people that.


    Signs of insanity. I am shooting no hockey this weekend :( Stupid real world!
  • Steve CaviglianoSteve Cavigliano Super Moderators Posts: 3,599 moderator
    edited February 2, 2006
    winger wrote:
    shhhhh dont tell people that.


    Signs of insanity. I am shooting no hockey this weekend :( Stupid real world!

    Laughing.gif Karen,
    Hey, we're all insane and Doc is our leader lol3.gif So consider that it's the guy whose avatar shows a finger up his nose that's calling you insane :uhoh

    Did you go to the link Andy provided? It's got your pics and it's all about how to get the yellow out...Laughing.gif Check it out and we'll never pick on you again. At least not this week anyhow...Laughing.gif

    Steve
    SmugMug Support Hero
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited February 2, 2006
    Steve Cavigliano wrote:
    Hey, we're all insane and Doc is our leader
    Goodness, we're screwed.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • wingerwinger Registered Users Posts: 694 Major grins
    edited February 4, 2006
    Steve Cavigliano wrote:
    Laughing.gif Karen,
    Hey, we're all insane and Doc is our leader lol3.gif So consider that it's the guy whose avatar shows a finger up his nose that's calling you insane :uhoh

    Did you go to the link Andy provided? It's got your pics and it's all about how to get the yellow out...Laughing.gif Check it out and we'll never pick on you again. At least not this week anyhow...Laughing.gif

    Steve

    Yeah but I dont understand how to get to the layers thing.........
    ITs the kind of thing I either need to be shown or talked through, which Andy so graciously offered, I just would have to call like at 2am or some other weird time.

    And for the most part the off white ice doenst bother me. The photograhper for umass uses strobes, and the ice is way white, the colors are hot (and not the good hot, they are just really bright and dont look real) and sometimes the brigtness of the white jersey and the ice are difficult to really differniate from.

    So I am more doing it for my customers. But I guess the players are wondering where the heck all the games are from Xmas on, because I havent posted many of them (except lowell, which the ice seemed to be ok)
  • PoseidonPoseidon Registered Users Posts: 504 Major grins
    edited February 5, 2006
    Hockey IS HARD!
    You can imagine how thrilled I was to see this:

    IMG_4793am1.jpg

    I shot it last year, I haven't made it to a game yet this year. ISO was 3200 I think, and it was shot THROUGH the glass! 20D and 70-200 2.8 non IS.

    Keep at it, and I like the look from ice level rather then above.
    Mike LaPorte
    Perfect Pix
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