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stock library copyright

David79David79 Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
edited February 1, 2006 in Mind Your Own Business
I've spent the last few days reading up on the various stock libraries out there and considering submitting some images. But I'm curious, given the ambiguity over what exactly royalty free images are, is there anything stopping someone from downloading my image from a stock library and then uploading it on another site under their own name???

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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    David79 wrote:
    I've spent the last few days reading up on the various stock libraries out there and considering submitting some images. But I'm curious, given the ambiguity over what exactly royalty free images are, is there anything stopping someone from downloading my image from a stock library and then uploading it on another site under their own name???

    wave.gif Hi David, and welcome to Dgrin!

    With a pro account, you can right click protect your images, and you can watermark them, and you can even limit only Medium sizes be shown. Some info on that here:

    http://www.smugmug.com/pro/
    http://www.smugmug.com/help/image-protection

    Holler back with any other questions you may have!

    All the best,
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    David79David79 Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
    edited January 31, 2006
    stock library Q's
    Andy, cheers for that. I read through the page you suggested. Though it doesn't account for the possibility that someone can pay a few dollers to buy any image and then resell. I'm sure i read somewhere of people doing this. The bigger sites - getty/corbis etc i'm say have this covered by whatever legal means, but what about the less established sites like shutterstock?? once you upload to one of these sites do you effectively lose control of your image to the public domain?
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    David79 wrote:
    Andy, cheers for that. I read through the page you suggested. Though it doesn't account for the possibility that someone can pay a few dollers to buy any image and then resell. I'm sure i read somewhere of people doing this. The bigger sites - getty/corbis etc i'm say have this covered by whatever legal means, but what about the less established sites like shutterstock?? once you upload to one of these sites do you effectively lose control of your image to the public domain?

    Hi David, I'm sorry - I can't speak for the Terms of Use on Shutterstock. Have you looked at them? I guess I'm not really sure what you're asking of SmugMug here, if you could elaborate, I'd really appreciate it :D
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    David79David79 Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
    edited January 31, 2006
    Ok, say someone bought a royalty free image from a stock library. Is there anything to stop that person from re selling that same image under their own name on a different stock site?

    so for instance they buy an image from say shutterbug and then upload it under their own name to istockphoto.

    If you're not sure , no worries.
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    Mike LaneMike Lane Registered Users Posts: 7,106 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    Sounds like a MYOB question... I'll move it.
    Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.

    http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    David79 wrote:
    Ok, say someone bought a royalty free image from a stock library. Is there anything to stop that person from re selling that same image under their own name on a different stock site?

    so for instance they buy an image from say shutterbug and then upload it under their own name to istockphoto.

    If you're not sure , no worries.


    Is there anything to stop this? Yes, the copyright law. Is there really anything to stop this? Only you and your efforts. In general, copyright is only as good as your defense of it. The activity you mention would be in violation of US copyright laws. But in reality, it is up to you to enforce that copyright: you need to discover the violation, send notice of violation, and be prepared to defend your copyrights.

    Probably the best thing to do is to get a digital watermark wth your copyright embedded, and it will follow the image, though not affect the quality of the image. For example: http://www.digimarc.com/
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    David79David79 Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
    edited January 31, 2006
    thanks for the info folks. I'll look into the watermark option.
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    pics-ellpics-ell Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    David79 wrote:
    thanks for the info folks. I'll look into the watermark option.

    you also need to perfect your copyright (register images with the copyright office in washington) or you will have a much harder time defending yourself if you get into a legal battle. the millenium digital copyright law will allow for your legal fees to be paid IF you have done this. if not, you may still win, but you will get buried in legal fees, and you may have a harder time finding a lawyer to represent you in the first place...
    pics-ell
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    AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited January 31, 2006
    David - I can share a little info based on personal experience with GettyOne, EyeWire and others.

    When those sites agree to carry your portfolio (yes they require a good portfolio of work) they are posted and watermarked by the site.

    Image buyers can download thumbnails all day long but CORBIS or GETTYONE is emblazoned across the low resolution file.

    If I, as an art director, choose to purchase an image (we'll assume royalty-free) I need to complete a form during the purchase process that accepts the terms of use (being sole) and not to transfer, sell, blah, blah, blah.
    Upon completion of the sale I download the hi-res image (or order a CD mailed). Presumably the vendor then processes payment to the photographer (copyright holder), less any fees/commissions.

    In the event of rights protected images, I must complete a very specific form stating the intended use, the term of use, the type of publication, etc. etc. Believe me, THEY CHECK!

    (The industry acts similarly to the radio and TV industry that monitors music and commercials to ensure artists (musicians and actors) are paid residuals)

    Back to the royalty free images... Can someone attempt to resell an image after they're in possession of the file? Certainly. People rob convenience stores too; doesn't make it legal and there are penalties for those caught in the act.

    Bottom line: Best wishes getting your portfolio online. Do it and don't worry about it. Let the agencies deal with it. That's what you'll be paying them for.
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    AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited January 31, 2006
    related issue:

    A strong case in favor of shooting RAW: Possession of a RAW file PROVES ownership.

    Much like negatives in film photography, possession of a RAW file of a disputed copyright will prove invaluable.
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    pics-ell wrote:
    you also need to perfect your copyright (register images with the copyright office in washington) or you will have a much harder time defending yourself if you get into a legal battle. the millenium digital copyright law will allow for your legal fees to be paid IF you have done this. if not, you may still win, but you will get buried in legal fees, and you may have a harder time finding a lawyer to represent you in the first place...

    OK so now we are getting into territory that may require an attorney.

    In fact, you do not need to register your images to get a copyright. The Copyright Law of 1976 changed that. Your copyright is granted the minute you take that photo. The only thing you need to do is to "publish" your work for sale. Where there is opportunity for it to change hands (vs just displaying in Smugmug for example) is one of the criteria here, so I would guess putting in a stock photo site would qualify..again a copyright attorney may be useful here. In any case, the US Govt has a pretty good explaination here:

    http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc
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    AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited January 31, 2006
    pics-ell wrote:
    you also need to perfect your copyright (register images with the copyright office in washington) or you will have a much harder time defending yourself if you get into a legal battle. the millenium digital copyright law will allow for your legal fees to be paid IF you have done this. if not, you may still win, but you will get buried in legal fees, and you may have a harder time finding a lawyer to represent you in the first place...



    from the U.S. Copyright Office:

    Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation


    The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration." Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.
    If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

    http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2006
    Great minds (or was that Simple..) think alike, eh Angelo?
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    pics-ellpics-ell Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
    edited February 1, 2006
    Angelo wrote:
    from the U.S. Copyright Office:

    Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation


    The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration." Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.
    If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

    http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

    this is true. i did not dispute the fact that your work is copyrighted at creation. however, perfecting the copyright (registering it) gives you added protections. having registered your images, you are entitled to win not only whatever damages you may be awarded, but legal fees also. if you have not registered, you may "win" the case, but your attorney's fees just for taking the case to court will most likely be more than what you are awarded, therefore making it an expensive moral victory for you. so, no you don't have to register, but i just thought i'd share this information...
    pics-ell
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