Political Protest - long post

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Comments

  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 6, 2006
    rutt wrote:
    Hey, Angelo, I love these. I wish I could have found this much good stuff to shoot for my Operation Rescue at Planned Parenthood shoot! Andy is right about straight B&W, but I'd like to see color even more. Weegee only had B&W, but you can bet he would have shot in color if he could have!

    Thanks but the originals are really sad and I'm too embarrassed to post them.

    I'll stand by my BWs, noise and all, and chalk it up to a "choice" :D
    I don't know why I got that tonal effect in some of the shots. I processed them all the same way. headscratch.gif
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 6, 2006
    ehughes wrote:
    Excellent PJ shots Angleo, love the B&W..

    Thanks Ed, much appreciated
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 6, 2006
    rutt wrote:
    Harry, this is a very wise comment. I've been working on just this and, believe me, it makes it very hard. Personally, I can tell you that I'm not very close to being able to do it.

    Harry seems to forget I've been out shooting birds.... how much more disagreeable does he want???? lol3.gif
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 6, 2006
    gefillmore wrote:
    Angelo!

    just in case you're not pulling our leg (legs?)-

    http://www.loosemoose52.com/page.php?id=1669

    nice job on the pics-

    if the pj's on this site aren't careful one of them will end up getting a pic posted big time-

    thanks for sharing-

    interesting how this post and the last pj post are about death-

    george

    Hey George I was "just pulling your leg" but thanks for the link. Thanks for the positive feedback but I don't "get" the comment about "death" headscratch.gif
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    Angelo wrote:
    Harry seems to forget I've been out shooting birds.... how much more disagreeable does he want???? lol3.gif

    Watch what you say about birds. :rambo There will be no anti-birdite stuff on my watch. :nono

    But serially I was quite sincere with my suggestion. Politically I stand with the protestors especially now that my son is serving in Iraq. Now if we are looking at this as photographic journalism and you want to grow in this area you need to have some emotional distance between yourself and your subject, IMHO. You want to be able to shoot both sides with honesty and to capture the spirit of the event(s). If you approach it as an advocate that will affect your captures.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    angelo-

    having tried to 'pull a leg' recently, that was pretty good-

    I was referring to rutt's post on the clinic and yours on the war protest-

    one thing I think we can all agree on is that it's great that we can participate in something like these protests freely-

    I, like ginger, live in an area that doesn't see much of this-

    I think the last protest here was when nixon came to ut stadium and spoke at a billy graham rally-

    have a good one-
    george
  • BigAlBigAl Registered Users Posts: 2,294 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    Great series Angelo. I really like the war vet one.
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    Harryb wrote:
    Watch what you say about birds. :rambo There will be no anti-birdite stuff on my watch. :nono

    But serially I was quite sincere with my suggestion. Politically I stand with the protestors especially now that my son is serving in Iraq. Now if we are looking at this as photographic journalism and you want to grow in this area you need to have some emotional distance between yourself and your subject, IMHO. You want to be able to shoot both sides with honesty and to capture the spirit of the event(s). If you approach it as an advocate that will affect your captures.

    Harry, I agree and I appreciate you taking time to share with me. Here in LA, in this blueest city of the blueest state there are few if any pro-Bushies. There were NONE at this rally, NOT ONE. The fact that main stream Republicans are now distancing themselves from this robber-baron, neo-con, fascist president and 66% of the U. S. population are against his policies and unlawful activities, it's hard to find arguments defending him, certainly in CA.

    I pray your son remains safe and returns soon from Iraq, along with all the soldiers fighting this phoney war.

    I promise to find other venues, other issues, where I can play the role of the other side. thumb.gif
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    gefillmore wrote:
    angelo-

    having tried to 'pull a leg' recently, that was pretty good-

    I was referring to rutt's post on the clinic and yours on the war protest-

    one thing I think we can all agree on is that it's great that we can participate in something like these protests freely-

    I, like ginger, live in an area that doesn't see much of this-

    I think the last protest here was when nixon came to ut stadium and spoke at a billy graham rally-

    have a good one-

    george

    Hi George - OK, I gotcha now and I agree. The fact that people can still protest freely, have their voices heard, and that a growing number (now a clear majority) of people disagree with this president's policies and openly state those objections sheds some hope that this craziness will end very soon. Let's hope his power grabs and loading the courts doesn't work against us more than it already has.
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    BigAl wrote:
    Great series Angelo. I really like the war vet one.

    Thank you Al.
  • JusticeiroJusticeiro Registered Users Posts: 1,177 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    I love #1, the composition is great and the B&W conversion is also nice. I have to join the consensus here and favor B&W over toned. I never have much liked "classic" protest photography in color- I guess I just have images of the '68 democratic convention burned in my mind so that black and white seems to fit. On the other hand, the planned parenthood photos wouldn't likely work so well in monochrome. Perhaps its the nature of the protest that makes the difference.

    #11 is good too, as a photo I don't think it compares to the others, but that sign is hysterical. I'll have to steal the line about Lincoln for my own use.

    As for the folks living in protest free zones, don't count yourself as too unlucky. There are less photo-ops, its true, but then again, trying to get around a city during these events can be frustrating. It took me 45 minutes to cross one street in Manhattan during the republican convention critical mass event. And I forgot to bring my camera. So I got doubly screwed!

    I need to get a P&S to keep in my back pocket at all times, I guess.
    Cave ab homine unius libri
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    Justiceiro wrote:
    I love #1, the composition is great and the B&W conversion is also nice. I have to join the consensus here and favor B&W over toned. I never have much liked "classic" protest photography in color- I guess I just have images of the '68 democratic convention burned in my mind so that black and white seems to fit. On the other hand, the planned parenthood photos wouldn't likely work so well in monochrome. Perhaps its the nature of the protest that makes the difference.

    #11 is good too, as a photo I don't think it compares to the others, but that sign is hysterical. I'll have to steal the line about Lincoln for my own use.

    As for the folks living in protest free zones, don't count yourself as too unlucky. There are less photo-ops, its true, but then again, trying to get around a city during these events can be frustrating. It took me 45 minutes to cross one street in Manhattan during the republican convention critical mass event. And I forgot to bring my camera. So I got doubly screwed!

    I need to get a P&S to keep in my back pocket at all times, I guess.

    Hey thanks for taking time to look and comment. You are so right about traffic. This protest tied up a large part of the city, up to about a 3 mile radius, for more than two hours.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    Angelo wrote:
    Let's hope his power grabs and loading the courts doesn't work against us more than it already has.
    How exactly is nominating supreme court justices that lean your direction "loading" the court? How is it any different than what Clinton did? Or any past president? As long as the nomimee is competent and capable of doing the job the president is surely going to pick someone along his line of thinking. Its one of the priveleges of the job and one of the spoils of the victor.

    Just interjecting some reality here.

    I really don't understand the left.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    Hey, guys, what do you want? A big stupid political flamefest which has zero chance of changing anyone's mind and which can only cause hard feelings? On a photography website? What's the point?

    Once, long ago, (maybe a year), I was on the edge of trying to have a political discussion on dgrin. I summoned all my best diplomacy, pulled down my history books, showed pictures of my dad, the WWII vet. And then Sid stepped in and said something very similar to what I just said which stopped me cold. He was so right.

    I'm sure there are plenty of places on the web for people to bristle at each other over their political beliefs. Should this be one of them?

    Not every political comment needs to be answered. Not every picture of someone you disagree is an invitation to state your own beliefs.
    If not now, when?
  • ivarivar Registered Users Posts: 8,395 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    Hey there, nice shotsthumb.gif i like them, especially since i get a feel you were shooting in difficult circumstances.

    The only thing that bothers me is, is in the #2 picture. The white line on the low-left corner (someone holding a pole of some sort?) is very distractive, and kind of tries to steel away attention from the girl. Other than that, good job!
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    Well said, Rutt. clap.gif Let's talk about the photos.

    And I think this thread brought up another very interesting point: is it harder to shoot a demonstration with which you do *not* sympathize? And does it make you a better photographer?

    I'm thinking it might. If you're not sympathetic, you might find yourself resisting the most impressive shots, for fear that they'd add credibility to the demonstration. But you can turn that instinct to your advantage: the shot you resist is the one you should be taking. It's the best shot, and your instincts are helping you to identify it.

    Whaddya think?
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • ivarivar Registered Users Posts: 8,395 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    wxwax wrote:
    And I think this thread brought up another very interesting point: is it harder to shoot a demonstration with which you do *not* sympathize? And does it make you a better photographer?

    I'm thinking it might. If you're not sympathetic, you might find yourself resisting the most impressive shots, for fear that they'd add credibility to the demonstration. But you can turn that instinct to your advantage: the shot you resist is the one you should be taking. It's the best shot, and your instincts are helping you to identify it.

    Whaddya think?

    I think i agree with you. Motivation is key in alot of things in life, for just getting that extra "something". I think that something will lack in pictures if you are not agreeing with that what you are trying to portray, because you would (sub-consciously) lack a bit of motivation. Wheter it is a political thing, or something else.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited February 7, 2006
    rutt wrote:
    Hey, guys, what do you want? A big stupid political flamefest which has zero chance of changing anyone's mind and which can only cause hard feelings? On a photography website? What's the point?
    Point taken. I should have simply asked Angelo if he was wanting a political discussion or a photography discussion. Given how this thread turned into a discussion about the politics instead of the photographs I took the bait.

    As per whether one can properly photograph an event such as this, one might think you need to be neutral. If you sympathize with the event you will invariably capture one side. If you don't agree with the event you will either miss the emotion or will concentrate on the negative aspects of the event. If you care not one way or the other you could possibly end up with a balance, because you don't care what spin gets put on your work. But I don't think that is realistic.

    Ideally, you'd want an event covered from both angles. Sympathizers and detractors. We're human. Bias is inevitable. The only practical thing to do is recognize it exists and deal with it appropriately. But how often does that happen? How often does the Op-Ed page of your local newspaper have liberal and conservative editorials on the same topic run on the same day?

    What would be interseting, then, would be to see a series of photos of the same event from someone with opposing viewpoint.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    ivar wrote:
    Hey there, nice shotsthumb.gif i like them, especially since i get a feel you were shooting in difficult circumstances.

    The only thing that bothers me is, is in the #2 picture. The white line on the low-left corner (someone holding a pole of some sort?) is very distractive, and kind of tries to steel away attention from the girl. Other than that, good job!

    Ivar - thanks for pointing that out. I can't believe I missed it. That's a metal pole (1 0f 4) holding up a canopy.
    Thanks for looking.
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    wxwax wrote:
    Well said, Rutt. clap.gif Let's talk about the photos.

    And I think this thread brought up another very interesting point: is it harder to shoot a demonstration with which you do *not* sympathize? And does it make you a better photographer?

    I'm thinking it might. If you're not sympathetic, you might find yourself resisting the most impressive shots, for fear that they'd add credibility to the demonstration. But you can turn that instinct to your advantage: the shot you resist is the one you should be taking. It's the best shot, and your instincts are helping you to identify it.

    Whaddya think?

    Sid, that's a challenge. Harry raised a similar question. Next time I hear of an event, one I do not agree with, I will attempt to cover it being understanding, if not sympathetic, to the protestors.
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 7, 2006
    I want to take a moment to thank everyone who viewed and commented on this thread. It got far more attention than I expected and thankfully much more positive response to my images than I could've imagined.

    I will take all the feedback and try to apply it to future endeavors.

    Before this degenerates into a political argument I'll simply ask no one else post at this point. You've already given me so much positive feedback.

    Thank you all very much.
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