Bokah?

Bob&GlennieBob&Glennie Registered Users Posts: 320 Major grins
edited February 15, 2006 in Cameras
Hi guys, I'm embarased to reveal that I've never heard of this term in over 30 years of photography in 35mm film and now, more recently in digital.

What is "bokah"?

Bob
See with your Heart

Comments

  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    G'day bob...its just the bit that is out of focus.ie the blurred background such as in this shot with the bokah king..135 prime f/2


    29788165-M.jpg
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    Bob&Glennie wrote:
    Hi guys, I'm embarased to reveal that I've never heard of this term in over 30 years of photography in 35mm film and now, more recently in digital.

    What is "bokah"?

    Bob
    One of the few articles I like on KR's site...
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/bokeh.htm
    One of many I like on the next...
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/bokeh.shtml
    The short answer is that bokeh is the quality of the out of focus areas in a photograph. It's one of the most important aspects of optical performance (my opinion) for those that like to use fast glass wide open alot.
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    Humungus wrote:
    G'day bob...its just the bit that is out of focus.ie the blurred background such as in this shot with the bokah king..135 prime f/2


    29788165-M.jpg
    1. Which 135mm f/2 prime did you use?
    2. It threw the background out of focus but the bokeh seems troubling to me. Were you actually wide open with this one? It seems to have more DOF than I would expect with a 135mm at f/2.
  • blackwaterstudioblackwaterstudio Registered Users Posts: 779 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    1. Which 135mm f/2 prime did you use?
    Most likey used the Canon 135L f/2 which is Canon's most sharpest lens (even beats out the 85L 1.2)

    Here's a shot with my Canon 300L
    29424244-L.jpg
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    1. Which 135mm f/2 prime did you use?
    2. It threw the background out of focus but the bokeh seems troubling to me. Were you actually wide open with this one? It seems to have more DOF than I would expect with a 135mm at f/2.

    No dont be troubled ...that was just a shot i grabbed quickly to explain it to bob...there is... as you know no specific level that draws a line that says this is bokeh & this isnt. It just gets sharper or butteryier (i just made that word up) That 1st shot is f/5 canon 135.
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    F/2 shows just how shallow the focus is. Bokah to the front & bokah to the rear.

    29926846-M.jpg
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    blackwaterstudio wrote:
    Most likey used the Canon 135L f/2 which is Canon's most sharpest lens (even beats out the 85L 1.2)

    Here's a shot with my Canon 300L
    29424244-L.jpg
    That looks like a bad background with good bokeh. Honestly (for me) that's how I judge any lens for bokeh. How good can it handle a troubling background.
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    Humungus wrote:
    F/2 shows just how shallow the focus is. Bokah to the front & bokah to the rear.

    29926846-M.jpg
    Maybe it's just me but I don't care for how it handled the bokeh in this one either. Keep in mind that I don't personally own even a handful of lenses that I would say have good bokeh while at the same time I do like this image.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=23924&highlight=bokeh
    Andy

    Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    Maybe it's just me but I don't care for how it handled the bokeh in this one either..

    Neither do i...im selling it immediately
  • Bob&GlennieBob&Glennie Registered Users Posts: 320 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    Thankyou
    Well, now that it's explained I certainly know what you're talking about. I just never heard it identified with the word "bokah". Is this a term that has become indiginous with digital? Or should I have heard this word somewhere during my long history with film?

    Anyway, thankyou all very much for the explaination. ( Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to dorolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif )

    Bob
    See with your Heart
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    Humungus wrote:
    Neither do i...im selling it immediately
    Lol!rolleyes1.gif Are you serious? I've got plenty of glass that can't handle troubling backgrounds that great but I'd still keep for other reasons. Is their a Canon 135mm with good bokeh? I can't speak for the Nikon's other than what I hear second hand. For the 135mm 2.0 DC I haven't seen evidence of great bokeh. For the 135mm 2.0 AIS only reviews that say the sharpness isn't that great (internal flare) wide open. Not much about the bokeh. For the 135mm 2.8 AIS I've seen plenty of examples recently with what looked like good bokeh. I'm thinking of trying that one out myself. Personally the only 135mm I have is an one old t-mount Vivitar 135mm f/3.5 plus one identical Ponds and Bender 135mm f/3.5. Here's a shot with it wide open with the most troubling background I have...
    47791947-L.jpg

    Great sharpness wide open and good bokeh but not stunning IMO.

    One of my favorites for bokeh (although restricted use) is an old JML Optical 56mm f/1.2.
    50103494-L.jpg

    54424820-L.jpg

    One that I like alot for bokeh (while alot of people don't) is my Nikor 85mm 1.8D. One of my favorite shots because of how it handled all the distracting elements...
    19717501-L.jpg
    Don't get me wrong. I've plenty of shots with that lens that show troubling bokeh. I just think some backgrounds are so bad that no lens could handle them well.ne_nau.gif
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2006
    Bob&Glennie wrote:
    Well, now that it's explained I certainly know what you're talking about. I just never heard it identified with the word "bokah". Is this a term that has become indiginous with digital? Or should I have heard this word somewhere during my long history with film?

    Anyway, thankyou all very much for the explaination. ( Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to dorolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif )

    Bob
    I never heard of that word (or really thought about that element of optical performance) till I started shooting alot of digital and hanging around some forums online.
  • blackwaterstudioblackwaterstudio Registered Users Posts: 779 Major grins
    edited February 14, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    Lol!rolleyes1.gif Are you serious? I've got plenty of glass that can't handle troubling backgrounds that great but I'd still keep for other reasons. Is their a Canon 135mm with good bokeh? I
    Yes there is the Canon 135L
    1ef135mmf_2l_1_.jpg
    **image taken from FM.com

    This is probably canon's most sharpest lens, even beats out the famous Canon 85L 1.2 lens

    Here's the review on the 135L
    FM review of Canon 135L
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 14, 2006
    blackwaterstudio wrote:
    Yes there is the Canon 135L
    1ef135mmf_2l_1_.jpg
    **image taken from FM.com

    This is probably canon's most sharpest lens, even beats out the famous Canon 85L 1.2 lens

    Here's the review on the 135L
    FM review of Canon 135L

    It really is that sharp.

    I actually only have shots of close friends & their kids with it that show its real potential re bokah & i dont post their shots onto the net.

    I will look at doing a demo with it in the next few days....its a magnificent lens. Nothing ive ever seen can come close to it.
  • blackwaterstudioblackwaterstudio Registered Users Posts: 779 Major grins
    edited February 14, 2006
    I have the lens and its wonderful.. I try to get some shots to post with it.
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    Out of curiosity I read a few reviews on the 135mm L earlier today. One of the things mentioned was in fact the excellent bokeh. I guess it just goes to my point of some backgrounds being so bad that no lens will clean it up short of obliterating it completely out of existence.

    I look forward to seeing some samples from this lens. If I were shooting Canon then it actually sounds like one of the first I would buy.
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    I guess it just goes to my point of some backgrounds being so bad that no lens will clean it up short of obliterating it completely out of existence.

    Yep...such as those backgrounds you posted. That is not what i call good & thus as with a photo...its subjective as to what is appealing to an individual eye. However its still bokah & i think we have answered bobs question.
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    Humungus wrote:
    Yep...such as those backgrounds you posted. That is not what i call good & thus as with a photo...its subjective as to what is appealing to an individual eye. However its still bokah & i think we have answered bobs question.
    Agree. Very subjective.:D
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    Humungus wrote:
    Yep...such as those backgrounds you posted. That is not what i call good & thus as with a photo...its subjective as to what is appealing to an individual eye. However its still bokah & i think we have answered bobs question.
    Reading again, I guess that's a terrible background...
    54424820-L.jpg

    I guess I hurt some feelings? rolleyes1.gif
    It wasn't intentional.
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    Reading again, I guess that's a terrible background...


    I guess I hurt some feelings? rolleyes1.gif
    It wasn't intentional.
    Please dont collect credit for that...i have no feelings in forums....i still do not like the bokah in your samples so it may well be me that hurt some feelings. My last post to this pointless rehashing of the same comments over & over & over.
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    Humungus wrote:
    Please dont collect credit for that...i have no feelings in forums....i still do not like the bokah in your samples so it may well be me that hurt some feelings. My last post to this pointless rehashing of the same comments over & over & over.
    Ok.rolleyes1.gif
  • MitchellMitchell Registered Users Posts: 3,503 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    mynakedsoda wrote:




    One that I like alot for bokeh (while alot of people don't) is my Nikor 85mm 1.8D.
    Don't get me wrong. I've plenty of shots with that lens that show troubling bokeh. I just think some backgrounds are so bad that no lens could handle them well.ne_nau.gif

    I also love the Nikkor 85, 1.8 for it's bokeh. Wide open it is razor thin but provides a pleasing, buttery bokeh.

    43375136-L.jpg
    Mitch
    http://clearwaterphotography.smugmug.com/
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 15, 2006
    Bob - while these guys are busy waving their lenses around I'll actually answer your question lol3.gif

    I also never heard the term "bokah" until encountering here at dGrin. So you are not alone! :D
    www.angelo.smugmug.com

    Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2006
    Angelo wrote:
    Bob - while these guys are busy waving their lenses around I'll actually answer your question lol3.gif

    I also never heard the term "bokah" until encountering here at dGrin. So you are not alone! :D
    Does this...
    mynakedsoda wrote:
    One of the few articles I like on KR's site...
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/bokeh.htm
    One of many I like on the next...
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/bokeh.shtml
    The short answer is that bokeh is the quality of the out of focus areas in a photograph. It's one of the most important aspects of optical performance (my opinion) for those that like to use fast glass wide open alot.
    not appear as an answer? Not to mention the other numerous answers.
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