Pan/Tilt head vs Ball head

CameronCameron Registered Users Posts: 745 Major grins
edited February 23, 2006 in Accessories
Ok, so I'm looking to replace my cheap tripod with a basic but sturdy one. I'm planning on getting the following legs:
Manfrotto 3021BPro

Now for my question - what are the merits of a Ball Head vs Pan & Tilt heads? I've only used pan/tilt heads in the past and like the ability to isolate the horizontal/vertical movements. However, I think I may enjoy the ease of a ball-head. The two heads I'm looking at are:
1) 329RC4 Pan/Tilt head
2) 322RC2 Ballhead

I have used and really like the 329RC4. I took a look at the 322RC2 earlier today at the store and played around with it - I really like the concept and design. However, I don't like how when trying to adjust alignment in one plane the other may be altered as well. I know the 322RC2 has a few fans here (Andy, I've seen you talk about it) - can you who have experience with both styles of heads give me some insight?
Thanks!

Cameron
Photos

Comments

  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited February 17, 2006
    Pan/Tilt give you much more limited control when compared to a ball head.

    The ball head you've selected would make a fine addition to your camera
    bag.

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited February 17, 2006
    52092082-S.jpg

    I gave up the 3 way and fluid heads when I stopped doing weddings as a main 2nd income business and went to this head the 322rc2... I love the flexability of it as opposed to other ball heads..........it is a titan of strength and the maounting plate can be moved to so many different positions....
    For me it is much easier to use that any standard ball head I have owned and used.
    Normally I have a sunpak 622 attached to that camera bracket but it was lighting the photo so I put that vivatar 285 on there.

    Just grip it and move then let go of the locking lever and it is solid....

    It took a bit of getting used to but once I "mastered" it I wouldn't go back to anyother type of head......unless I was going back into weddings or maybe fast paced sports where you have to pan to keep an image focused...then it would be a fluid head.
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 17, 2006
    Get a level and you'll be fine. I far prefer a ballhead to a pan-tilt. But that pistol grip will only hold 11 lbs. If you think you're going to be upgrading your gear in the future, including heavy glass, then you might want a more solid (read, more expensive) ballhead. I have the Acratech and cast lecherous glances at the Really Right Stuff.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • Bob BellBob Bell Registered Users Posts: 598 Major grins
    edited February 18, 2006
    I have a 329RC4. I like 3 way heads. I use them for macro/ product / advertising shots because they can be extremely precise and you can control axis seperately. The downside to the rc4 is its permanantly attached to the head so if you want to change clamps you need to mount the new clamp to the RC 4.

    Now that i have gotten into more nature / wildlife shooting, I think I am going to pick up a ball head from RRS or something similar.

    I did look at manfrotto ball heads a couple years ago and they seems all to weak to support long lenses, so before you buy something make sure that your longest lenses doesnt make the ballhead slip.
    Bob
    Phoenix, AZ
    Canon Bodies
    Canon and Zeiss Lenses
  • Bob BellBob Bell Registered Users Posts: 598 Major grins
    edited February 18, 2006
    wxwax wrote:
    Get a level and you'll be fine. I far prefer a ballhead to a pan-tilt. But that pistol grip will only hold 11 lbs. If you think you're going to be upgrading your gear in the future, including heavy glass, then you might want a more solid (read, more expensive) ballhead. I have the Acratech and cast lecherous glances at the Really Right Stuff.

    What do you not like about RRS?

    I have been a fan of the AUB just never seen one in person or knew anyone who used them. what clamp do you use with the AUB?
    Bob
    Phoenix, AZ
    Canon Bodies
    Canon and Zeiss Lenses
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited February 18, 2006
    Bob Bell wrote:
    What do you not like about RRS?

    I think what he's saying is that he's jealous of the RRS stuff. But that
    Acratech 'aint a bad head either.

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • Savas KSavas K Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited February 20, 2006
    No, not jealous. Let's just say a little bit untoward.

    When thinking leacherous, think Benny Hill.
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 20, 2006
    Bob Bell wrote:
    What do you not like about RRS?

    I have been a fan of the AUB just never seen one in person or knew anyone who used them. what clamp do you use with the AUB?


    Don't get me wrong, I like the Acratech ballhead. it's strong, reliable and durable. I do have a couple of niggles. The adjusting knob and the head itself can crowd each other when in the vertical/portrait position. The friction control is a little crude. And it's a bit tiresome having to screw and unscrew the clamp to release the camera.

    I cast covetous glances at the RRS because I saw one at the Yosemite shootout. I like the adjustment knob system - it seems to offer more discrete control, and it doesn't get in the way of the head. I also like the level that's built-in to some models. And I like the quick release lever - a lot.

    When I bought the Acratech it didn't come with a choice of clamps. So I have the standard screw clamp, that mates with a RRS plate.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • Bob BellBob Bell Registered Users Posts: 598 Major grins
    edited February 21, 2006
    wxwax wrote:
    Don't get me wrong, I like the Acratech ballhead. it's strong, reliable and durable. I do have a couple of niggles. The adjusting knob and the head itself can crowd each other when in the vertical/portrait position. The friction control is a little crude. And it's a bit tiresome having to screw and unscrew the clamp to release the camera.

    I cast covetous glances at the RRS because I saw one at the Yosemite shootout. I like the adjustment knob system - it seems to offer more discrete control, and it doesn't get in the way of the head. I also like the level that's built-in to some models. And I like the quick release lever - a lot.

    When I bought the Acratech it didn't come with a choice of clamps. So I have the standard screw clamp, that mates with a RRS plate.


    One of the things I dont care about the RRS is how short their heads are. I'm 6'6" so I'm always looking for height in a tripod and head. If gitzo had a 5'6" CF legset built as strong and stiff as the 1325, I would probably look at the RRS 40 pro closely.
    Bob
    Phoenix, AZ
    Canon Bodies
    Canon and Zeiss Lenses
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited February 22, 2006
    Bob Bell wrote:
    One of the things I dont care about the RRS is how short their heads are. I'm 6'6" so I'm always looking for height in a tripod and head. If gitzo had a 5'6" CF legset built as strong and stiff as the 1325, I would probably look at the RRS 40 pro closely.

    Say what? Can you explain to me how much difference a ball head is going
    to make? Just askin'

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • Bob BellBob Bell Registered Users Posts: 598 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    ian408 wrote:
    Say what? Can you explain to me how much difference a ball head is going
    to make? Just askin'

    Ian

    The heigh of ballheads very from under 3 inches for the BH-25 to over 6 inches for the studioball. 2-3 inches is the difference from being able to pan for a flying bird and not getting the shot.
    Bob
    Phoenix, AZ
    Canon Bodies
    Canon and Zeiss Lenses
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited February 22, 2006
    Bob Bell wrote:
    The heigh of ballheads very from under 3 inches for the BH-25 to over 6 inches for the studioball. 2-3 inches is the difference from being able to pan for a flying bird and not getting the shot.

    Bollocks.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • mr peasmr peas Registered Users Posts: 1,369 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    alright, how about tripods that allows you to go from horizontal to vertical? theres panning for going left + right, then tilt for aiming up and down, but whats the correct term for a mount which goes from hor. to vert.?
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,245 moderator
    edited February 22, 2006
    more fuel on the fire
    Mike Johnston's blog in January had several days worth of ballhead posts.

    Here's the link. Long load, but look about 4/5ths down near the bottom of the page.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • Bob BellBob Bell Registered Users Posts: 598 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    mr peas wrote:
    alright, how about tripods that allows you to go from horizontal to vertical? theres panning for going left + right, then tilt for aiming up and down, but whats the correct term for a mount which goes from hor. to vert.?

    Well I use pan liberally, how about tracking. Some tripods have center columns that you can adjust to horizontal or you can add a horizontal bar to a tripod head using an adapter. Im not sure if there is a term.
    Bob
    Phoenix, AZ
    Canon Bodies
    Canon and Zeiss Lenses
  • Bob BellBob Bell Registered Users Posts: 598 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    David_S85 wrote:
    Mike Johnston's blog in January had several days worth of ballhead posts.

    Here's the link. Long load, but look about 4/5ths down near the bottom of the page.

    Ive read Mike Johnston's work for a long time with the Sunday Morning Photographer. I didn't know he had a blog or a website, thx for the link.
    Bob
    Phoenix, AZ
    Canon Bodies
    Canon and Zeiss Lenses
  • mr peasmr peas Registered Users Posts: 1,369 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    im sorry what i meant to say was, is there a term for a tripod that is able to switch the camera from landscape (horizontal) to portrait ne_nau.gif (vertical).
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    mr peas wrote:
    im sorry what i meant to say was, is there a term for a tripod that is able to switch the camera from landscape (horizontal) to portrait ne_nau.gif (vertical).
    It's not the tripod, it's the head. But even easier is to buy a L-bracket. It fits to your camera. It's much easier than trying to realign your tripod head. Just flip the camera and you're on your way.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited February 22, 2006
    even better than the L is a rotating bracket...such as the Stroboframe [jones bracket and their are many others]....can even be used with off camera flash to keep flash centered above the lens.
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2006
    Art Scott wrote:
    even better than the L is a rotating bracket...such as the Stroboframe [jones bracket and their are many others]....can even be used with off camera flash to keep flash centered above the lens.

    I have one of these vertaflip they do work but very clunkie
    I like the Custom bracket for rotating...I don't own one but I have used them they are nice.
    When it's time for me to upgrade(soon) I am going with RRS.

    3438436-S.jpg3438437-S.jpg3438503-S.jpg



    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2006
    USAIR wrote:
    I have one of these vertaflip they do work but very clunkie
    I like the Custom bracket for rotating...I don't own one but I have used them they are nice.
    When it's time for me to upgrade(soon) I am going with RRS.

    3438436-S.jpg3438437-S.jpg3438503-S.jpg



    Fred

    Both are really nice but where is the bracket for the flash or is there an attachment for the flash?
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2006
    Art Scott wrote:
    Both are really nice but where is the bracket for the flash or is there an attachment for the flash?

    This one is just for rotating the camera on tripod or monopod
    No flash attachment

    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2006
    Those have their place, but at a price. The price being clunkiness and extra gear to tote around, which reduces their practicality. I keep forgetting to pack even the L-frame because it takes precious extra space.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited February 23, 2006
    I put an L-bracket on my bodies when I purchase them, and only remove them when I sell the body.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2006
    pathfinder wrote:
    I put an L-bracket on my bodies when I purchase them, and only remove them when I sell the body.
    I should, but haven't. I keep the standard RRS plate mounted. Yes, I'm a dummy. I'm trying to avoid the extra bulk of the L-plate when I don't need it (minor as it is.)
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • mynakedsodamynakedsoda Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2006
    322rc2
    I've never used the pan-tilt head you linked but I do own the 322RC2. I've had it for some time now and the more I use it the less I like it. Keep in mind that the heaviest setup it generally will see is my old Nikon D100 plus a 60mm 2.8D Micro and on rare occasions my Nikon 17-55mm 2.8DX. Neither exactly weigh a ton or really approach the rated weight limit of the 322RC2. After very occasional use over the months though the head has developed more and more creep that I can't adjust out of it. Creep being a slight settling of the grip when pressure is released to lock it in place. Not in an exact horizontal or vertical plane either. This isn't so bad when using a zoom for normal range but when I do macro or near-macro (1:1) work it drives me crazy. It is also loosening up over time. It takes more and more adjustment of the tension to get it to tighten up. I'm actually almost at the limit of the tension adjustment.

    Now keep in mind I work as a tool and die maker by trade so I'll probably take it apart and just custom machine whatever it takes to fix it in the future. I wouldn't recommend that for the faint of heart though. You could pay me to fix it later on but I charge a standard $45 per hour for custom work like this and $75 per hour if it involves any EDM machining. I will no quote your job unless I see atleast 4 billable hours.

    I don't know if every "grip action" ball head is like that but would not recommend the 322RC2 specifically.
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