smug mug, sharpening and printing....

wetsands

Hi all, I'm new to smug mug and had a question about sharpening aand prints w/ smugmug..when i print for myself i sharpen in 2 stages..the initial capture sharpen and secondly my output sharpen depending on paper size and type... Am I correct in assuming smug mug will add their own output sharpen at time of printing thus keeping me from appling my output sharpen??


It is ok to still apply my captue sharpen or will this end up leading to over sharpening??

what do most of you folks do??

thanks,
jd

Andy

wetsands wrote:

Hi all, I'm new to smug mug and had a question about sharpening aand prints w/ smugmug..when i print for myself i sharpen in 2 stages..the initial capture sharpen and secondly my output sharpen depending on paper size and type... Am I correct in assuming smug mug will add their own output sharpen at time of printing thus keeping me from appling my output sharpen??


It is ok to still apply my captue sharpen or will this end up leading to over sharpening??

what do most of you folks do??

thanks,
jd

Hi JD, Go with your normal print sharpening routine, and post a link here to a shot or two that I can look at. I'll let you know if you're on the right track.

When we make your -L, -M, -S versions, we apply a light sharpening also. This is only for the display versions - we don't add any more sharpening to your originals, from which we print.

http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

wetsands

Andy wrote:

Hi JD, Go with your normal print sharpening routine, and post a link here to a shot or two that I can look at. I'll let you know if you're on the right track.

When we make your -L, -M, -S versions, we apply a light sharpening also. This is only for the display versions - we don't add any more sharpening to your originals, from which we print.

http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

Thanks Andy,
here's a link to one of my "test images" please note that it is only at 72ppi..
http://wetsands.smugmug.com/gallery/1242429/1/58224990

Andy

wetsands wrote:

Thanks Andy,
here's a link to one of my "test images" please note that it is only at 72ppi..
http://wetsands.smugmug.com/gallery/1242429/1/58224990

PPI doesn't matter - these shots are only 600px or thereabouts. You'll of course be printing from your full size originals... how about a link to one of those please?

http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

I actually highly recommend not resizing the image up or down at all from the original resolution from your camera. If you increase the size, Photoshop is just creating imaginary pixels that didn't originally exist. If you downsize it, you are taking away pixels from the image that contain detail. The best size is the native resolution. Any sort of quality digital camera will now have enough native pixels to print at any size that we offer (as long as the image itself isn't blurry or has something wrong with it of course). The PPI setting is actually pretty much irrelevant in an online medium or when printing at variable sizes. Your overall resolution is all that matters, as that is what will be shown online. And when printing, the PPI/DPI varies depending on your print size. For instance, your 3000x2000 pixels are going to be extremely large for a 4x6 print, but for a 30x40 print the dpi will change to be much lower. The dpi setting in Photoshop won't affect that at all, and as such it is largely outdated and can be ignored for these purposes.

wetsands

Andy wrote:

PPI doesn't matter - these shots are only 600px or thereabouts. You'll of course be printing from your full size originals... how about a link to one of those please?

http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

I actually highly recommend not resizing the image up or down at all from the original resolution from your camera. If you increase the size, Photoshop is just creating imaginary pixels that didn't originally exist. If you downsize it, you are taking away pixels from the image that contain detail. The best size is the native resolution. Any sort of quality digital camera will now have enough native pixels to print at any size that we offer (as long as the image itself isn't blurry or has something wrong with it of course). The PPI setting is actually pretty much irrelevant in an online medium or when printing at variable sizes. Your overall resolution is all that matters, as that is what will be shown online. And when printing, the PPI/DPI varies depending on your print size. For instance, your 3000x2000 pixels are going to be extremely large for a 4x6 print, but for a 30x40 print the dpi will change to be much lower. The dpi setting in Photoshop won't affect that at all, and as such it is largely outdated and can be ignored for these purposes.

Hi Andy,

so if i'm shooting raw w/ a d2x (4200x3200 or so) all i need to do is edit it to my taste, convert profile from prophoto to srgb, switch mode to 8 bit and save a a jpg (at that size)...won't that take forever to upload to smug mug ..yet alone 75 or 100 of them? (what file size would you suggest (in KB) )
thanks,
jd

oh yeah,
what about the original sharpening question..i relize that link was for an old web jpg but if i use an output sharpen at about the same degree will that be ok, or will your added sharpening application over sharpen it (i use photokit capture and output sharpening)...

Andy

wetsands wrote:

Hi Andy,

so if i'm shooting raw w/ a d2x (4200x3200 or so) all i need to do is edit it to my taste, convert profile from prophoto to srgb, switch mode to 8 bit and save a a jpg (at that size)...won't that take forever to upload to smug mug ..yet alone 75 or 100 of them? (what file size would you suggest (in KB) )
thanks,
jd

oh yeah,
what about the original sharpening question..i relize that link was for an old web jpg but if i use an output sharpen at about the same degree will that be ok, or will your added sharpening application over sharpen it (i use photokit capture and output sharpening)...

Yes, upload the full size file. I assume you have broadband? Save as photoshop 10 - that's Lab Quality. You'll need to try various sharpening levels to see what you like - or again, you can link me to a full size file and I'll be happy to review it.

wetsands

Andy wrote:

Yes, upload the full size file. I assume you have broadband? Save as photoshop 10 - that's Lab Quality. You'll need to try various sharpening levels to see what you like - or again, you can link me to a full size file and I'll be happy to review it.

Hi Andy,
no broadband(dsl?) ..just dial up from my house...how much faster would dsl be?

I'll try to upload a full resolution full size image this evening and link it for you.

thanks!
jd

bwg

wetsands wrote:

...no broadband(dsl?) ..just dial up from my house...

wow. so you're that guy.

you are missing out my friend.

Andy

wetsands wrote:

Hi Andy,
no broadband(dsl?) ..just dial up from my house...how much faster would dsl be?

I'll try to upload a full resolution full size image this evening and link it for you.

thanks!
jd

JD, you don't have it, or it's not available where you are?

wetsands

bigwebguy wrote:

wow. so you're that guy.

you are missing out my friend.

....yep I'm that guy :-D..

jd

wetsands

Andy wrote:

JD, you don't have it, or it's not available where you are?

Hi Andy,

I just moved here recently..I don't have broadband, but I seen it advertised through the cable company...How much faster does it do uploads?

I just uploaded 4 images for you to check out as far as sharpening is concerned..it took over 35 minutes on dial up ..3 were cropped ..so there was only one full size d2x file...uggg.

anyway, here's the link...
http://wetsands.smugmug.com/gallery/1244932/1/58352292


they are not as sharp as i would normally do just prior to printing (these don't have output sharpen application on them..just capture and artistic)..
i would really like to get really sharp, clean prints..any advice would be appreciated...(w/ that said,,I don't want them to be oversharpened by the addition of the smugmug final sharpen)

thanks!
jd

JimM

wetsands wrote:

I just moved here recently..I don't have broadband, but I seen it advertised through the cable company...How much faster does it do uploads?

I just uploaded 4 images for you to check out as far as sharpening is concerned..it took over 35 minutes on dial up ..3 were cropped ..so there was only one full size d2x file...uggg.

JD, I can upload a full-sized JPEG from my 20D in less than a minute (over a 3mb file).... I am on a DSL line. You really need a cable modem or DSL line to move these sized files around at any kind of speed.

Andy

wetsands wrote:

Hi Andy,

I just moved here recently..I don't have broadband, but I seen it advertised through the cable company...How much faster does it do uploads?

I just uploaded 4 images for you to check out as far as sharpening is concerned..it took over 35 minutes on dial up ..3 were cropped ..so there was only one full size d2x file...uggg.

anyway, here's the link...
http://wetsands.smugmug.com/gallery/1244932/1/58352292


they are not as sharp as i would normally do just prior to printing (these don't have output sharpen application on them..just capture and artistic)..
i would really like to get really sharp, clean prints..any advice would be appreciated...(w/ that said,,I don't want them to be oversharpened by the addition of the smugmug final sharpen)

thanks!
jd

Hi JD,

I looked at the original of this photo:
http://wetsands.smugmug.com/gallery/1244932/1/58351638/Large

I think that you could dial back a little bit. Oh and try Smart Sharpen in CS2, it introduces less noise in the skies and water. There's lots of great help and tricks on sharpening, in the PS forum here on dgrin and also on the how-to section of http://dgrin.smugmug.com

I've seen DSL deals for $20 per month in some regions of the US. Can't imagine dealing with online photos today without high speed internet... You've got a D2X, not a tiny P&S, you'll have to bite that bullet

dogwood

another upload option
I used to burn my photos to CD, bring 'em to work, and upload from my computer there. Then I got broadband at home and now I wonder how I lived without it. I honestly rate it one of the coolest 'inventions/innovations' of the last decade. And the IT guys at my job are happy I'm not uploading stuff here anymore! Another option is to find a coffee shop or municipal building that has free wi-fi. I know a lot of places don't have this-- but I'm in Portland, Oregon, and it's everywhere for free (bars, coffee shops, city hall, etc). The city is even working on a wi-fi "cloud" that will cover the entire city.

I even know of a person who made his house a wi-fi hotspot and told his neighbors and they all chip in on the monthly bill and share the wi-fi connection.

wetsands

dogwood wrote:

I used to burn my photos to CD, bring 'em to work, and upload from my computer there. Then I got broadband at home and now I wonder how I lived without it. I honestly rate it one of the coolest 'inventions/innovations' of the last decade. And the IT guys at my job are happy I'm not uploading stuff here anymore! Another option is to find a coffee shop or municipal building that has free wi-fi. I know a lot of places don't have this-- but I'm in Portland, Oregon, and it's everywhere for free (bars, coffee shops, city hall, etc). The city is even working on a wi-fi "cloud" that will cover the entire city.

I even know of a person who made his house a wi-fi hotspot and told his neighbors and they all chip in on the monthly bill and share the wi-fi connection.

Well i bit the bullit and picked up the self install roadrunner broadband through my local time-warner cable company..will try to install it this evening...its supposed to upload images at 320kb/min...is that fast (iknow it is compared to dial up)?

Andy, I'll look at the pscs2 smartsharp tutorials...I didn't really see any noise in that one shot you pointed out..where exactly did you see it..will the noise be apparent in a print..especially if the image is printed in a smaller size than the original file size..

what about those othershots? alittle overboard as well...? I guess i'm trying to determine that fine line where my images look nice and crisp, but not unnaturalley sharp...what do you use as a guideline?

thanks!
jd