Which body to get with Canon 70-200mm 2.8L IS?

juliejules

I'm committed to getting a Canon 70-200 2.8L IS lens. My biggest
challenge (of many!) is shooting girl's high school/college ice hockey
games. I discovered Dgrin and Winger's galleries while doing research
on shooting hockey. From all I've read, this is the lens to get. I
met another hockey parent who has this lens on a Canon 20D and loves
it.

Ok, so on to the body question. I am torn between the 5D and the 30D,
ignoring for a moment the significant difference in price. :uhoh

The 5D is full frame (I think I want that), and it has a higher
resolution. However, the 30D has a higher fps (5 fps vs 3 fps), and a
popup flash, which is handy for other stuff.

When trying to shoot hockey, will the higher fps really make a
difference? If I have my finger on the shutter while a player is
skating towards me, will the autofocus keep up at 5 fps? Can I still
see the action, or does the viewfinder black out? :dunno

Is the higher fps and a popup flash enough to outweigh the full frame
and higher resolution? When my kid no longer plays hockey, will I
wish I had the higher resolution?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Andy

juliejules wrote:

Thanks in advance for your advice.

5D vs. 30D for hockey? No question, 30D.
But - your best choice is probably the 1D Mark IIN. Not much more than the 5D - and the 8fps, superior AF will get you fantastic results.

All three cameras perform incredibly well at ISO 800/1600 which you'll need.

Good luck!

Bodley

Andy wrote:

5D vs. 30D for hockey? No question, 30D.
But - your best choice is probably the 1D Mark IIN. Not much more than the 5D - and the 8fps, superior AF will get you fantastic results.

All three cameras perform incredibly well at ISO 800/1600 which you'll need.

Good luck!

Ditto

I shoot sports and moved from the 20D to the 1dmarkII. There was a difference if AF. The 20D was great, but the 1dmarkII is built for the task. I should have kept my 20d b/c now I'm looking to buy a backup camera for my 1dmkII.

That being said, there are plenty of sports shooters with 20D's.

My comments were about the 20D b/c I don't have the 30D ...................Yet

juliejules

Andy wrote:

5D vs. 30D for hockey? No question, 30D.
But - your best choice is probably the 1D Mark IIN. Not much more than the 5D - and the 8fps, superior AF will get you fantastic results.

All three cameras perform incredibly well at ISO 800/1600 which you'll need.

Good luck!

Great! This is good news. Less money.

I'm not sure I want to go all the way to a 1D Mark IIN because it's so big.

Antonio Correia

Compact Flash Cards
I thing you must not forget to buy the Sandisk Extreme III compact flash card to go with because of its performance.
Best regards.

ian408

The 1dmkiin will focus much faster than either of the 30d or 5d. Especially in
situations where the light is poor--like a lot of rinks. You might also find a
deal on the older 1dmkii or even the 20d. There's nothing wrong with the 20d
either. You might not have 8fps but you will have 5 (remember that the
frame rate is somewhat dependant on the image size). Both cameras work
well in low light too. One other advantage the mkii offers is a larger buffer.
Meaning you'll be able to keep shooting while you're writing the CF card a
bit longer.

Good luck on your choice and look forward to seeing the results.

Ian

kygarden

I think this is the first time I've seen someone decide on a camera based on a certain lens. :

Sure you don't want a Nikon D200 with the Nikon 70-200 f/2.8? Some samples I found with this combo (since you have no Canon or Nikon gear at all right now)...
http://www.pbase.com/drip/d200_05

Found some more 70-200 photos this time, on ice! Seems most of them are with that lens (info at bottom of most photos)...but with D2H instead of D200. http://www.pbase.com/nikonsean/mens

Sorry....couldn't resist

ian408

Good point KY. If you don't have any gear yet, the Nikon is a good choice as
well.

kygarden

ian408 wrote:

Good point KY. If you don't have any gear yet, the Nikon is a good choice as
well.

It's a tough choice when you have no investment on one of the other. You many times end up going on other people's opinions and personal recommendations. With these choices though, you probably can't go wrong either way. Personal preference might be the big factor.

MarkM6

5D price to drop...
"If you are not in a hurry for 5D, there will be a $300 rebate from Canon in April." - a local agent in OC told me that.

ziggy53

Julie,

The lens you have chosen is appropriate to the task, and I am so proud of you for identifying the components necessary for the results you desire. So many people look at photography as either a "money" problem, or a "brand" problem. Which brand? How much money?

You found successful people and isolated some of the key physical components of, and to, their success.

Understand that to a sports shooter, a recurring theme I hear over and over is something called "response". How responsive a system is to their needs. If they have to wait on anything in the system, they may loose a shot. No matter how accomplished the photographer, a more responsive system will yield more "keepers".

It's not just the resolution or the frames-per-second that make the successful image capture, it's how well the tool at hand, the camera and the lens and the memory card and the batteries, work with you and your capabilities (which will improve with time and experience).

In your original post, you said, "...will I wish I had...". In the choice between 5D and 20D/30D, for a sports situation, the 20D/30D is a better choice because it is more responsive. The 1D MKII/1D MKIIN is a better choice still, ... for "sports" photography.

Will you ever wish you had the extra resolution of the 5D? Probably, yes you will, but probably not as much as you would miss the responsiveness of a fast system. Extra resolution is handy for some situations. The ability to crop and retain sufficient pixels for a usable image is a benefit in many situations. It is not a major determinant in sports photography.

BTW, I have a Canon dRebel XT, and I am definitely looking for a future purchase of a 1D MKII or 1D MKIIN. I will use it for sports and for wedding and event, and I believe that the resolution is not a problem for any of those situations.

As for the weight of these cameras, the lens you have chosen is pretty heavy and you may have issues with its weight alone. I highly recommend that you visit someone, or a store, with a system similar to what you want to get prior to purchase, even if that means considerable travel time. It is time well spent and only you can decide how much is too much. A monopod or tripod is almost always an asset, in any case. (Just another part of the successful system.)

Best,

ziggy53

P.S. As others have pointed out, many sports shooters also use Nikon systems. Nikon makes some fantastic gear for this venue.

Bodley

ian408 wrote:

You might not have 8fps but you will have 5 (remember that the frame rate is somewhat dependant on the image size).
Ian

As a note: frame rate is not a substitute for timing. When I'm trying to get timed shots like bat on ball I use the single shot mode. 8fps is great for sliding and series shots but it fills up cards fast. 8/5 fps is a lot of fun in the field but makes for a tedious task weeding through and culling later.

juliejules

Thanks for all the feedback! I have looked at the dpreview for the 1D Mark II N and it looks like a fantastic rig. I get the point about responsiveness.... I guess there's no such thing as too fast. I'll have to think about this carefully. This camera purchase is a huge investment.

At end of the day, though, I am not a professional, and I don't expect to be one. I surely want to improve my game and get better at the art. Photography is a hobby for me, and I want to do it well, but I'm not sure I can justify it.

Have you ever gone skiing and seen somebody completely equipped with brand new skiis and a matching outfit, and they can't get down the hill? That'll be me with a 1D Mark II N trying to take pictures at family gatherings and youth football games. Do people really drag that thing to Disney World to snap a picture of their kid with Mickey?

Although I have to say the weather sealing is kind of attractive. I've tried to photograph lacrosse in the rain from inside the car. It's not great. Just how weather sealed is it?

Bodley

juliejules wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback! I have looked at the dpreview for the 1D Mark II N and it looks like a fantastic rig. I get the point about responsiveness.... I guess there's no such thing as too fast. I'll have to think about this carefully. This camera purchase is a huge investment.

At end of the day, though, I am not a professional, and I don't expect to be one. I surely want to improve my game and get better at the art. Photography is a hobby for me, and I want to do it well, but I'm not sure I can justify it.

Have you ever gone skiing and seen somebody completely equipped with brand new skiis and a matching outfit, and they can't get down the hill? That'll be me with a 1D Mark II N trying to take pictures at family gatherings and youth football games. Do people really drag that thing to Disney World to snap a picture of their kid with Mickey?

Although I have to say the weather sealing is kind of attractive. I've tried to photograph lacrosse in the rain from inside the car. It's not great. Just how weather sealed is it?

If your not shooting to sell and are concentrating on your child the 30D (if it performs as expected) should be all the camera you need. Maybe even better suited for your needs. Where the improved AF benefits me is that I'm trying to shoot 24 kids in one hour and hits on AF become a lot more important. Like I said before, my 20D was very capable.

I don't do rain - but others have said it's no problem with the sealed camera and a sealed lens.

Would I take my 1dmkII to Disney World - Heck NO. Not if I'm trying to keep up with the kids and enjoy myself. I'd lean more toward a P&S - maybe the new Fuji (F30 I think, the one with iso 3200). Or the 20D/30D with a bang around lens.

Andy

juliejules wrote:

Photography is a hobby for me, and I want to do it well, but I'm not sure I can justify it.

30D

chuckice

kygarden wrote:

I think this is the first time I've seen someone decide on a camera based on a certain lens. :

Sure you don't want a Nikon D200 with the Nikon 70-200 f/2.8? Some samples I found with this combo (since you have no Canon or Nikon gear at all right now)...
http://www.pbase.com/drip/d200_05

Found some more 70-200 photos this time, on ice! Seems most of them are with that lens (info at bottom of most photos)...but with D2H instead of D200. http://www.pbase.com/nikonsean/mens

Sorry....couldn't resist

No doubt...fwiw here are some of mine. The seats were lousy and my first pro hockey attempt so I was pleased either way...

D200, 70-200/2.8 VR...
http://snortingbull.smugmug.com/gallery/1123973

Shay Stephens

Hands down the 30D would be my choice. Not only do you have fast response but you have the 1.6 crop factor which makes your 200mm lens like a 320mm lens.

I use the 20D and the 70-200mm IS lens in wedding and portrait work. I have never had a performance problem with it. I did with the 10D, but the 20D hads the responsiveness and buffer space I need. The 30D is better still.

The cost/performance ratio is as good as you can get too. The most bang for the photographic buck. And the weight of the camera helps too over bigger heavier cameras. I can use the 20D/70-200 all day, yes it is heavy, but it's do-able.

juliejules

Thanks for all your input. This is just the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate. You helped me clarify my requirements.

So I think I will go with the 30D. It's more cost effective, I like the form factor, and it will probably provide years of service. I'll stick to EF lenses, just in case I want to upgrade in the future.

No offense to the Nikon guys, I appreciate your input. I just have too much psychic energy in the Canon thing to go and learn a whole new line. I've been thinking about this for almost a year.

So, having made the decision, I want it NOW.

Bodley

juliejules wrote:

Thanks for all your input. This is just the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate. You helped me clarify my requirements.

So I think I will go with the 30D. It's more cost effective, I like the form factor, and it will probably provide years of service. I'll stick to EF lenses, just in case I want to upgrade in the future.

No offense to the Nikon guys, I appreciate your input. I just have too much psychic energy in the Canon thing to go and learn a whole new line. I've been thinking about this for almost a year.

So, having made the decision, I want it NOW.

If you're in Australia you can get it now. Apparently the US has to wait.

MarkM6

Hmmm...

Bodley wrote:

If you're in Australia you can get it I]30D[/I now. Apparently the US has to wait.

How sure are you with that statement?

Canon in the US is saying that the camera will be in stores by the end of March 2006, i.e., in less than 3 weeks from now... If the camera is in the store in the Downunder, I am more than hopeful that we will see it on time.

Having sold my D200 recently, I absolutely love the 20D except I miss the 2.5" LCD display and that super cool menus of the D200.

My target date of purchase is the second week of April because of the alleged $300 rebate on 5D (due 1st week of April); just in case the 30D is not on the shelves.

Bodley

MarkM6 wrote:

How sure are you with that statement?

Canon in the US is saying that the camera will be in stores by the end of March 2006, i.e., in less than 3 weeks from now... If the camera is in the store in the Downunder, I am more than hopeful that we will see it on time.

I'm not Downunder but have read for several days about Aussie's taking delivery of the 30D's. Some even post sample shots taken with the camera. Hoaxes, maybe, but I doubt it. One poster even commented about units being on the self at his local store.