Pocket wizard and Canon 580ex flash

goodcrna

I was shooting a basketball districts final game and was talking to the local newspaper sports photographer (he was very patient and helpful) regarding wireless flash. He uses Nikon and wasn't familar with Canon Flash...

He used one flash unit in the corners at one end of the gym. He had a pocket wizard receiver for each flash and the transmitter on his hotshoe. I was thinking about using Alienbee strobes but, didn't want to have to worry about electrical outlets being available (and people tripping over cords, unplugging, carrying all that extra extension cords,etc). So this setup appealed to me.:thumb

BUT, after searching this forum, I think I've figured:dunno out that the Canon 580's can't be triggered with pocket wizards in E-TTL mode. So, wouldn't manual mode work out ok for this application? Does anyone else use this type of setup (with Canon 580's??) for basketball, volleyball, etc? I assume that with the flashes in manual mode there would be a fair amount of adjusting (flash output) to get the exposures correct. But, once the initial setting is found wouldn't it be pretty close in most gyms (even with just a little tweaking??).

The Canon wireless ST-whatever isn't radio controlled (infra-red) and thus in my understanding needs a line-of-sight to the slave units. And I've read on this forum that the range isn't very good. So this doesn't sound like what I need...!!!???

The more I get into this photography thing, the more stuff I need!!! Yeah, I know "wants and needs."

So, I guess, I'm asking anyone use this setup with the 580's on manual with the pocket wizards? What other options do I have that I'm not aware of?

Greg

pathfinder

I own both the 580EX and a pair of PWs, that I use to trigger studio strobes. .

But I do not know how to use a PW to trigger a 580EX.

The 580EX has no external PC connector or plugin aperature that I can find either on the unit or described in the manual.

The only way that I can think of, would be to use a 580EX on camera as a master to trigger your remote 580s as slaves. That might actually work.

If someone knows a way to safely trigger a 580EX with a PW, I am all ears

The ST-E2 IR transmitter just does not have the range needed and needs to point directly at the flash to function. It is OK inside a room, but not a basketball court.

Bodley

goodcrna wrote:

BUT, after searching this forum, I think I've figured out that the Canon 580's can't be triggered with pocket wizards in E-TTL mode. So, wouldn't manual mode work out ok for this application? Does anyone else use this type of setup (with Canon 580's??) for basketball, volleyball, etc? I assume that with the flashes in manual mode there would be a fair amount of adjusting (flash output) to get the exposures correct. But, once the initial setting is found wouldn't it be pretty close in most gyms (even with just a little tweaking??).

The Canon wireless ST-whatever isn't radio controlled (infra-red) and thus in my understanding needs a line-of-sight to the slave units. And I've read on this forum that the range isn't very good. So this doesn't sound like what I need...!!!???

The more I get into this photography thing, the more stuff I need!!! Yeah, I know "wants and needs."

So, I guess, I'm asking anyone use this setup with the 580's on manual with the pocket wizards? What other options do I have that I'm not aware of?

Greg

I use a pair of 580ex's triggered by pocket wizard multimax's for basketball in a small gym. I have been pleased with the results. You are correct about ETTL not working when the flash unit is being triggered by pocket wizards (ETTL requires a preflash) .

I use paramount cords to connect the wizards to my 580ex's. The flashes are positioned on 13' stands in the corners on one end of the court and I can shoot out to about 1/2 court. All is shot in manual mode. I get there and setup before the game starts then dial in my exposure (by adjusting the camera not the flash) while the teams warm up. The flashes are in manual mode, full power and 35mm pointed toward the top of the key. I also use Canon CP-E3 battery packs on the flash units as this reduces the recycle time for the flash, firing at full power, to about 1-2 second.

pathfinder

Bodley wrote:

I use a pair of 580ex's triggered by pocket wizard multimax's for basketball in a small gym. I have been pleased with the results. You are correct about ETTL not working when the flash unit is being triggered by pocket wizards (ETTL requires a preflash) .

I use paramount cords to connect the wizards to my 580ex's. The flashes are positioned on 13' stands in the corners on one end of the court and I can shoot out to about 1/2 court. All is shot in manual mode. I get there and setup before the game starts then dial in my exposure (by adjusting the camera not the flash) while the teams warm up. The flashes are in manual mode, full power and 35mm pointed toward the top of the key. I also use Canon CP-E3 battery packs on the flash units as this reduces the recycle time for the flash, firing at full power, to about 1-2 second.

That's just what I have been looking for - Great!! Thanks a bunch!

goodcrna

Paramojnt cables, PW and 580

Bodley wrote:

I use a pair of 580ex's triggered by pocket wizard multimax's for basketball in a small gym. I have been pleased with the results. You are correct about ETTL not working when the flash unit is being triggered by pocket wizards (ETTL requires a preflash) .

I use paramount cords to connect the wizards to my 580ex's. The flashes are positioned on 13' stands in the corners on one end of the court and I can shoot out to about 1/2 court. All is shot in manual mode. I get there and setup before the game starts then dial in my exposure (by adjusting the camera not the flash) while the teams warm up. The flashes are in manual mode, full power and 35mm pointed toward the top of the key. I also use Canon CP-E3 battery packs on the flash units as this reduces the recycle time for the flash, firing at full power, to about 1-2 second.

Greg,
This is what I thought could be done, but the camera shop told me that it couldn't be done at all!!!!... The paramount cords your using, is the hot shoe model? There is are two connectors on the 580. One for the external battery and the other is a "bracket fitting"!?. Will the 580 work via the pocket wizard on the hotshoe of the paramount cord?

What settings are you using for your basketball games? ISO, shutter speed/aperature, mode, etc. Thanks Greg. I'll order a couple of the paramount cords. Do you have a picture of your flash seup on the stands?

I was so glad this can work this way. I do want a couple of strobes but, really didn't want to mess with the electrical cords, etc at the games. The costs really add up when you add 2 external CP-e3 Battery packs, 1PW transceiver, 2 receivers, 2 stands and brackets for the stands/flash. Do you just put this all in a large duffle bag? Thanks for your help..
Greg Good

Shay Stephens

About camera shops

goodcrna wrote:

This is what I thought could be done, but the camera shop told me that it couldn't be done at all!!!!

Camera shops are good at two things and two things only, telling you what is in stock and how much things cost, but beyond that, they are *not* a trusted source of advice on what can and cannot be done.

I do not accept any advice they have to offer on anything outside their sphere of expertise (inventory and prices).

Bodley

goodcrna wrote:

Greg,
The paramount cords your using, is the hot shoe model? There is are two connectors on the 580. One for the external battery and the other is a "bracket fitting"!?. Will the 580 work via the pocket wizard on the hotshoe of the paramount cord?

The only way to fire a 580ex with a pocket wizard type transmitter is through the shoe. Canon's, for some reason, don't offer a sync plug. The paramount cords are the only ones I've found that have the pw miniphone to hotshoe. Others use combo adapters such as hotshoe adapters with pc jack then a pc to miniphone cord or hotshoe with pc cord then a pc-to-miniphone adapter. Both of the latter options are cheaper than the paramounts, but I wanted a one piece unit (although some poeople report gluing their two piece units together).

The 580ex's have a jack for the external battery pack.

goodcrna wrote:

What settings are you using for your basketball games? ISO, shutter speed/aperature, mode, etc. Thanks Greg. I'll order a couple of the paramount cords. Do you have a picture of your flash seup on the stands?

I shoot at the highest sync speed of the 1DmkII which is 1/250, ISO 640, f5.6. with the flash set to full power. For sports shooting an external battery such as the CP-E3 (I use 2500mh Maha rechargeable batteries) is a must. Otherwise the recycle times are going to kill you. (Settings will change based on the setup). Get in the gym and practice your setup beforehand. Play with it - bounce the flashes, vary the power, vary the zoom etc....

Shay has posted a similar setup already HERE (no umbrellas) but you should consider stands with a min. height of 12' (Adorama has some cheap ones)unless your gym has a balcony or bleachers to set up in (I would still get the taller stands).

goodcrna wrote:

I was so glad this can work this way. I do want a couple of strobes but, really didn't want to mess with the electrical cords, etc at the games. The costs really add up when you add 2 external CP-e3 Battery packs, 1PW transceiver, 2 receivers, 2 stands and brackets for the stands/flash. Do you just put this all in a large duffle bag? Thanks for your help..
Greg Good

This is a more expensive route than with AB's but no cords to mess with. Also other brands of flashes would be cheaper but you would lose the wireless ETTL capability for portraits (some metz may support this). That's why I chose to stick with Canon's.

Carrying, it's a PITA. I have a backpack for my camera gear - shoulder bag for flashes, transmitters, cords & brackets - velcro straps around stands. I can make it in one trip but I look like a pack mule

If you can borrow some flashes Try befor you buy.

Hope this helps - any more questions?

ziggy53

Bodley wrote:

... The flashes are in manual mode, full power and 35mm pointed toward the top of the key. ...

Sorry, I tracked everything you said but this, "pointed toward the top of the key". What is it that is the "Key"?

Thanks,

ziggy53

Bodley

ziggy53 wrote:

Sorry, I tracked everything you said but this, "pointed toward the top of the key". What is it that is the "Key"?

Thanks,

ziggy53

The key (12' wide x 19' long) is the square marked area from the foul line to the out-of-bounds line.

Lets just say - Pointed toward the 3-point line directly in front of the basket.

goodcrna

Bodley wrote:

Carrying, it's a PITA. I have a backpack for my camera gear - shoulder bag for flashes, transmitters, cords & brackets - velcro straps around stands. I can make it in one trip but I look like a pack mule

If you can borrow some flashes Try befor you buy.

Hope this helps - any more questions?

Greg,
This JUST what I needed. Thanks for sharing. I can't wait to try it....
Greg

goodcrna

How did you get around auto battery save mode?

Bodley wrote:

The key (12' wide x 19' long) is the square marked area from the foul line to the out-of-bounds line.

Lets just say - Pointed toward the 3-point line directly in front of the basket.

Greg,
I finally tried this tonight. I gave up though. I have the 580's connected to PW Plus units. I plugged the paramount cords into the flash connectors on the PW's. I also used the external battery units. Everything worked just fine, but,......the 580's have an auto battery save feature. It goes into 'sleep' mode and to 'awaken' you (according to the manual) press the shutter half way, or press the pilot button on the 580. If I wasn't taking pictures for 90 seconds the 580 went into sleep mode. I couldn't get them to 'awaken' by pressing on the shutter or the AE (*) button. So I had to go to the flash units to awaken them. It was a pain and I couldn't find anything in the manual to stop the auto sleep mode.

How did you get around this? Did you have the master/slave enabled or off?
Thanks
Greg

cmason

try Custom Function 14: Auto Power Off Activation. Haven't tried myself, but give it a whirl.

goodcrna

cmason wrote:

try Custom Function 14: Auto Power Off Activation. Haven't tried myself, but give it a whirl.

Thanks , I was looking for this in the manual at the gym, but couldn't find it. I'll give it a try next time.
Greg

Nikolai

As always...

Shay Stephens wrote:

Camera shops are good at two things and two things only, telling you what is in stock and how much things cost, but beyond that, they are *not* a trusted source of advice on what can and cannot be done.

I do not accept any advice they have to offer on anything outside their sphere of expertise (inventory and prices).

Shay is right on the money.
Same goes to pretty much every local store, at least those I visited. Exceptions can be made for such giants as B&H and Adorama, which, most likely, carry what you really need, but other than that.. It's like asking a kid in Best Buy (electronics superstore) what monitor/printer to buy...

digismile

Andy pointed a link to Rangefinder magazine and I noticed an interesting accessory for the PW & 580EX.

It is called a Strobe Slipper (see it here). And it is sold here. Thought it might be of interest to this thread.

dcyphert

PW firing strobes
This is a stupid question..but...I never used a PW...does it go on the shoe of the camera? Will the PW fire any brand strobe lighting with a remote sensor?

HiSPL

For those that are a little bit handy you can save yourself about 43 and a half bucks by doing This.

jdryan3

580 EX II has PC Connector
The 580 EX II has a PC Connector just below the external power jack. One
reason I waited for it instead of getting the 580 EX.